Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

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Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby IdleMind » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:25 pm

Here is a home built recumbent with a 33cc Robin/Subaru 4 stroke engine. I built it three years ago and it has become my favorite bike for long country rides. I will be converting it to electric so I can use it on paved bike paths. The battery pack will be mounted under the seat in place of the current engine.

I have read a few recent threads about small hub motors and partly based on that I have selected the following:
Q100 36v 328 rpm front hub motor in a 20 inch wheel
S06S 500w torque simulation sine wave controller
S-LCD3 Meter for S-series controllers

I already have a thumb throttle and 6 pole PAS
I plan to use 8s 6p lipo battery and expect top speed to be about 16 mph (26 kph), assuming that my 30v pack will run proportionally slower than 328rpm at 36v. And that range will be greater than 40 miles if I constantly pedal along.

I selected front drive because I have a Sturmey Archer rear drum brake which I would like to keep and because there is so much weight on the back that I would be concerned about the two-part axle in the Q motors.

I would like to place an order soon, but first wanted to ask if the components will work well together and is there anything else I should be getting. I am new to ebikes so any suggestions will be appreciated.

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Re: Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby motomech » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:20 pm

The simulator @ Ebike CA has a model Q100 328 and agrees with your est.
The Q100H, using the Outrider standard as a model, would be in that range on 10S and would climb better.
What will you do for a frt. brake? V-brakes?
The Q85 has a roller brake option, but It would probably be a little under-powered.
I'm not a mid-drive guy, but it seems to me, that would be a good option for that bike.

P.S. I'm a retired golf course mechanic and I know that Subi engine well as most of the sm. trash(water) pumps use it. Great engine!
Last edited by motomech on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, 2.4 Holly Rollers run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-48A
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 12S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 17A controller. 20 MPH.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84624&p=1237928#p1237928
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Re: Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby IdleMind » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:47 pm

Thanks for the comments, I was not aware that the Q100 328 was included in the data base at Ebike.CA, I will be taking some time to try to absorb that info.

It would make a real nice mid drive set up, the belt driven jackshaft runs in the 1000 to 1500 rpm range and could be replaced with a motor. However I would prefer to keep the e drive separate from the human drive so it operates more like a normal bike and so I don't have any concerns about chain or cassette failures. The gas motor is great for almost unlimited range, but it also attracts too much attention for me, a small hub motor will be more inconspicuous than a mid drive.

Just last week I added the front suspension seen in the photos, prior to that I had non suspension fork with a BMX brake. If you remember the 1960's BMW cycles you will see the inspiration for this suspension. There is no good place to mount a rim brake so I will be using disc brakes.
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Re: Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby motomech » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:30 pm

IdleMind wrote:Thanks for the comments, I was not aware that the Q100 328 was included in the data base at Ebike.CA, I will be taking some time to try to absorb that info.

It would make a real nice mid drive set up, the belt driven jackshaft runs in the 1000 to 1500 rpm range and could be replaced with a motor. However I would prefer to keep the e drive separate from the human drive so it operates more like a normal bike and so I don't have any concerns about chain or cassette failures. The gas motor is great for almost unlimited range, but it also attracts too much attention for me, a small hub motor will be more inconspicuous than a mid drive.

Just last week I added the front suspension seen in the photos, prior to that I had non suspension fork with a BMX brake. If you remember the 1960's BMW cycles you will see the inspiration for this suspension. There is no good place to mount a rim brake so I will be using disc brakes.


When you fill out the custom battery values on the sim., add a zero to the internal resistance value to make it .002 Ohm.
The SO6S controller peaks around 15 Amps and probably should not be modified, so there would not be any point in using the slightly more powerful "H"motor.
Remember, you need to order the speed and PAS sensor(if you choose to use that) items @ BMS Battery.
You might want to also order the Hidden Brake Sensor that could be installed on the rear brake and a pair of torque arms(you need not install both).
Speaking of brakes, BMS B. also offers a mechanical disc system, but I haven't used it.
If you want to save money and shipping time, order the motor unbuilt and a set of spokes and build your own wheel.

My very first motorcycle was a mid '60's Zundapp and it used that style frt. fork. I think it's called an Earles fork.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, 2.4 Holly Rollers run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-48A
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 12S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 17A controller. 20 MPH.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84624&p=1237928#p1237928
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Re: Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby IdleMind » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:30 pm

I just placed an order with BMSbattery for these parts

S06S Controller
S-LCD3 Meter
Q100 36v250w front hub 328 rpm
set of Q100 gears
Left handed twist throttle
8 pole PAS
Speed sensor
Hidden wire brake sensor

Cost for the parts is 155.50 plus 83.37 shipping for 243.87 total

Motomech--thanks for your comments, I would have missed the speed sensor and brake sensor.

I will post again when I get the parts and get them all working together.
When I was in high school I had a friend who had a Zundapp, I think it's the only one I ever saw in my life, looked just like a BMW.
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Re: Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby IdleMind » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:56 pm

Last week I got my parts from BMSbattery, it only took 6 days and the parts all are in perfect condition. So I got it together enough to give it a try and am totally satisfied with the performance. With 8s lipo it runs about 17 mph on its own, I haven't done a long enough ride yet to evaluate range.

Just starting to work on the new battery pack which will be housed in an small metal toolbox which will be mounted in place of the current gas engine. I know I will miss the gas engine for the range and slightly higher speed, but electric with no shifting and no noise is so much nicer to ride.

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Re: Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby motomech » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:22 pm

Cool beans.
BMS Battery seems to have gotten it together.
With all that space, you could build any speed and range you want with that new pack, all it takes is money.
On=board charging is an option too.
Still need to mount that caliper, huh?
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, 2.4 Holly Rollers run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-48A
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 12S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 17A controller. 20 MPH.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84624&p=1237928#p1237928
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Re: Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby IdleMind » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:27 pm

Here's a couple pictures of my current temporary battery box and my plans for what's to come. Now that I have tested the current setup, I know that I will be fast enough with 8s. So I ordered a 208b icharger which I will use to balance charge the whole pack at once. I have 6 hardcase batteries and will soon be getting 6 more to make an 8s6p pack which will fit in the Makita case. The whole pack will mount on the bike with a pair of drop-outs.

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And yes I need to get a bracket made and welded onto the front swing arm so I can add a brake caliper.
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Re: Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby torker » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:57 pm

Cool recumbent. I built 2 but sold them and just have my Sun EZ-Rider now. I miss my tour easy clone the most. Did you come up with that frame design yourself? Never seen one like it but it has been a few yrs. since I followed the custom homebuilders or built any more.
Now you have a hybridx3 8)
Dave When I die I want to slide in sideways yelling WooHoo what a ride !

Giant Rincon w rear 9C 6*10 10s Lipo 30+ amps
Specialized FSR Comp 9C 6*10 15s x 50A 3300 W :)
http://s18.photobucket.com/user/rolinfun/library/?sort=3&page=1
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Re: Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby IdleMind » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:36 pm

Yes, I did design and build it myself. I copied the seating, crank, and handlebar relations from the Tour Easy, but used 20 in wheels. There is a short build thread on a motorbike forum with photos and my comments:
http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?37613-Build-of-Recumbent-with-RS-35cc

Today I pulled the gas engine out to make space for batteries so only hydridx2.
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Re: Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby torker » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:32 pm

I checked out the build thread until I scoped the rear susp. I thought you had susp. That is totally unique. I have a 60 Chev pu with torsion front susp. Did you come up with that on motoredbikes or come with that yourself? I have a link here to my photobucket that shows a short wheelbase I built with a rubber snubber and torsion stays I guess. I like yours much better ..
Dave When I die I want to slide in sideways yelling WooHoo what a ride !

Giant Rincon w rear 9C 6*10 10s Lipo 30+ amps
Specialized FSR Comp 9C 6*10 15s x 50A 3300 W :)
http://s18.photobucket.com/user/rolinfun/library/?sort=3&page=1
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Re: Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby IdleMind » Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:31 pm

In the last few weeks I got 6 more batteries and fixed a few things so now it does what I want it to do. It can help me along on a 50 mile ride with range to spare. My average speed on that ride was 14.5 mph, not very fast but it's always there to help. The front brake is now working too. When I started this conversion I thought I might miss the gas engine, no way. The electric is a much nicer way to go.

The battery pack attaches with two skewers. There are 12 4-cell turnigy hardcase batteries arranged for 8s6p with balance harnesses so I can charge the whole pack with a 8s icharger.


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Re: Converting ICE assisted recumbent to E assist - Q100?

Postby IdleMind » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:23 pm

I made a bunch of little changes over winter so here's a current photo.
Image

I cut off the brackets that were used for the gas engine and jackshaft mounts. Also removed the sturmey archer 3 spd mid drive. Repainted everything. Moved the contoller to under the seat and rerouted all the wires.
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