MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Get all your technical information about electric bikes here.
Post Reply
User avatar
Allex
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2898
Joined: Dec 05, 2011 8:46 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Allex » Sep 08, 2014 7:26 pm

Sorry could not find a thread about this motor so created a new one.
I think that this new mxus 3000 motor could be a serious competitor to the Crystalyte 40xx series. People call it Mini Cro :)


-------------------------------------------------------
Just look at the spec for V1
Nominal: 3000W
Peak: 6500w
Stator/Magnets with: 45mm
4 turn
Stamped steel stator
0.5mm Laminations
Weight: 8Kg Stamped steel stator(8.3Kg with aluminium stator)
135mm dropouts
13AWG phase wires

v2 differences compared to v1:
4Tx16 windings;
Al stator base;
0,35mm laminations;
+300g to weight resulting in 10kg total for motor laced in 26" P35D meety rim with 10G spokes.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Added from "teslanv"
Here is some more Hard data for the EE folks:
MXUS XF40-45H (3000W) DD Hub motors...

21X3T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.072 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 597, 11.89 Kv
1.78A/89.4 Watts No Load

16X4T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.110 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 448.2, 8.93 Kv
1.08A/54.2 Watts No Load

12X5T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.163 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 359, 7.15 Kv
0.84A/42.2 Watts No Load

10X6T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.225 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 299.4, 5.96 Kv
0.64A/32.1 Watts No Load

All bare hub motors weigh in at right around 9.14 Kg.

These are the motors I sent to Justin for Dyno Testing.
No Load Current was measured with my Fluke 77 iii RMS Digital Multimeter, so it should be pretty darn accurate.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Image
Image
Image
Image

Mxus V2 4t@13kW 160A DC/400A phase
Stock phase wires:


Here is a speedrun with Adaptto 18FET controller (Max-e)
First is with OVS 0, second run is OVS at 7
20S14p LG DBHEII batteries
Same controller settings, same Phase stock wires, 160A/400A so around 13kW. Basically Maximum settings that I can dial in on a Locked max-e
Sorry, just did a fast cut, no fancy stuff here, on top of that youtube does a hard compression so you dont see small figures on the display during a ride.
Oh and, it actually wheelies a bit as seen in the video, I had to apply throttle gradually to keep it down.
24" wheels btw.



3T MXUS with upgraded phase wires, 21.5" Moped Racing tires, ~100V on my 18X4110 Infineon, 80A Battery, 180A Phase Current.



MXUS3000 ver.2 tested on steep hill.
E-kross frame. Adaptto Max-E controller, LiNMC 77V16Ah battery. 90A battery current, 180A phase current. 7.1kW max power, 79Wh/km energy consumption.
This motor has a good torque reserve.
Image
And 11kW run at 130Amps ~110km/h

Image

//Doc
I have measured the diameter of ONE strand of the MXUS 3000 4T from a friend today.
The diameter was 0.0225"
I other words, it's equal to gauge 23.
In that 4T there is 16 of these strands witch is equal to exactly a 11 gauge wire.
In a 3T there is 21 of these strands witch is equal to just a bit bigger than a 10 gauge wire.

The stock wire gauge on the MXUS 3000 is very similar to a 16 or 14 gauge.
It is clear to me that a wire upgrade WOULD improove performance and avoid melting wires and also connectors due to the added wire heat transfer to the connector.

Doc

Image
Image
Image

According to Justin's data, Teslanv get the following phase current limits on the various windings:

MXUS XF40-45H "3000W" Direct Drive Hub Motor Series:

3T:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 55A
Overheat in 10 Minutes: 85A
Overheat in 60 seconds: 242A

4T:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 42.6A
Overheat in 10 minutes: 66A
Overheat in 60 seconds: 186A

5T:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 34.9A
Overheat in 10 minutes: 51.6A
Overheat in 60 seconds: 150A

6T:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 30.3A
Overheat in 10 minutes: 47A
Overheat in 60 seconds: 132A

Generic Winding Phase Current Limits per strand:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 2.84A per strand
Overheat in 10 minutes: 4.4A per strand
Overheat in 60 seconds: 12.4A per strand

*All data assumes a non-vented hub motor. Venting or other methods of cooling should increase these values.

If these values seem low, just remember that when accelerating from a stop, you might start out at very high phase current, but then in theory phase current would drop as you reach your cruising speed. - As long as your cruising (continuous) phase current is not higher than listed above, you would theoretically never overheat the motor.

And here is the excel spreadsheet teslanv developed so you can calculate and compare unloaded speed and torque, given Motor winding, volts, Phase current and tire size.
Attachments
MXUS 3000W Calculator.xls
(35.5 KiB) Downloaded 1801 times
Last edited by Allex on May 25, 2016 4:07 am, edited 23 times in total.

Ohbse
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 746
Joined: Dec 26, 2013 5:15 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Ohbse » Sep 08, 2014 7:53 pm

Looks great! Good chunk lighter than Cro v3 with still some serious power potential and certainly looks like better quality than Crystalyte. Cool. Price and availability? Gonna do some googling.

User avatar
neptronix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13063
Joined: Jun 15, 2010 5:56 pm
Location: People's republic of Petrolistan ( Utah, USA )
Contact:

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by neptronix » Sep 08, 2014 8:12 pm

I heard of this motor before, but it was a prototype, and didn't know the brand!!

I'd take this over the Crystalyte HS40xx any day because i am sure that the axles won't be such a problem plus it'll be cheaper for certain..

http://ebikemotor.en.alibaba.com/produc ... r_kit.html
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

User avatar
t3sla
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 868
Joined: Jan 24, 2012 7:44 am
Location: Made in China.

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by t3sla » Sep 08, 2014 8:38 pm

Well this explains why they have an interbike booth and here I thought they just made small geared motors.

Willing to bet the fabrication QC is world's ahead of Clyte
Endless Spirit.

User avatar
Sean9002
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 331
Joined: Jun 16, 2013 7:57 am
Location: Australia

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Sean9002 » Sep 08, 2014 10:38 pm

neptronix wrote:Who's gonna be the first vendor? :)
I'll be the first customer if you find out =)
Any Aussies into a group buy?
OSET 20+ - Custom frame and swingarm, Motorims - 66V
Ruff Cycles Porucho - MXUS 3000w - whitewalls - Gloss black/Pearl blue/copper leaf - custom tanks - bobber saddle
Giant Glory 00 - Clyte X5404 - Hubsinks - 18FET Sinewave
Fuji Nevada S - MXUS 35mm- Hubsinks - 12FET Sinewave

stevc
10 W
10 W
Posts: 99
Joined: Mar 12, 2013 10:03 am
Location: Orange N.S.W.

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by stevc » Sep 08, 2014 11:00 pm

If that Alibaba price is in the ballpark then i will be in for one.

User avatar
snellemin
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 866
Joined: Apr 03, 2011 12:24 am
Location: Spring TX

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by snellemin » Sep 08, 2014 11:11 pm

That's a nice motor at a good price.
Silent speed Racer

User avatar
teslanv
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2813
Joined: Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA - USA
Contact:

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by teslanv » Sep 08, 2014 11:18 pm

I need to learn how to lace up a wheel. Maybe two. Hanging around Kingfish is making me want a 2WD with these motors. Could you imagine the torque?
I build custom ebikes.
http://www.westcoastelectrics.com
West Coast Electric Cycles
Bellevue, WA
USA

User avatar
snellemin
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 866
Joined: Apr 03, 2011 12:24 am
Location: Spring TX

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by snellemin » Sep 08, 2014 11:25 pm

How about three of them on a custom trike.
Silent speed Racer

User avatar
Samd
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3829
Joined: Jun 28, 2011 11:08 pm
Location: Ballarat, AU
Contact:

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Samd » Sep 09, 2014 2:53 am

Nice. Stator isn't meaty cast though. Just stamped. A bit of venting may offset.
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

User avatar
neptronix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13063
Joined: Jun 15, 2010 5:56 pm
Location: People's republic of Petrolistan ( Utah, USA )
Contact:

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by neptronix » Sep 09, 2014 3:10 am

True, the axle does not look meaty either, but you know what..

If you ran this at 3kW as designed, you'd be getting power output above what 'the crown' or a Crystalyte H40xx at a much likely lower cost and the axle is probably going to be more reliable than the H40xx's at the very least.

A lot of us are overpowering our hub motors and generating a lot of heat. This motor is easy to run at what you'd be putting into a crystalyte 35xx without wasting a lot of your energy as heat, that's how i see it personally.

Even just running it within spec is exciting as-is. Imagine what being in the efficiency zone continuously will do for your battery life.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

iovaykind
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 770
Joined: May 16, 2011 5:02 pm
Location: United States

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by iovaykind » Sep 09, 2014 5:44 am

Have I been out of the game for awhile or is that a 29mm stator width picture?

User avatar
striker54
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 312
Joined: Jun 25, 2013 6:27 am
Location: Portugal

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by striker54 » Sep 09, 2014 5:50 am

iovaykind wrote:Have I been out of the game for awhile or is that a 29mm stator width picture?
No, it's 45mm.
Look where is the zero on the scale.

iovaykind
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 770
Joined: May 16, 2011 5:02 pm
Location: United States

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by iovaykind » Sep 09, 2014 5:55 am

Its been awhile :) sorry to add junk to this awesome thread. Looks promising!

User avatar
louis raaijmakers
100 W
100 W
Posts: 175
Joined: Oct 09, 2013 3:22 pm

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by louis raaijmakers » Sep 09, 2014 6:39 am

looks promising
i have mailed them for buying 1 for testing.
i guess this is also a single speed hub?
but it is still strange to me that this one is better than a 40xx crystalite :?
and cheaper.

maybe becouse it doesn't look so bad ass as a crystalite.
greeting louis

Punx0r
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4249
Joined: May 03, 2012 8:16 am
Location: England

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Punx0r » Sep 09, 2014 7:06 am

I think this will nicely fill the gap between the under-powered 9C 1000W motors and the hefty CroMo.

User avatar
teslanv
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2813
Joined: Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA - USA
Contact:

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by teslanv » Sep 09, 2014 7:54 am

I am hoping the make it in a variety of winds also.
I build custom ebikes.
http://www.westcoastelectrics.com
West Coast Electric Cycles
Bellevue, WA
USA

User avatar
Ykick
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 5944
Joined: Nov 26, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Ykick » Sep 09, 2014 9:52 am

Punx0r wrote:I think this will nicely fill the gap between the under-powered 9C 1000W motors and the hefty CroMo.
Funny to hear about a motor I regularly run 2kW peaks called under-powered. Moderate power sure but hardly under-powered for an assisted bicycle, IMO.

However, this beefy MXUS offering does look good for small emoto builds.
Talent must not be wasted.... Those who have talent must hug it, embrace it, nurture it and share it lest it be taken away from you as fast as it was loaned to you.

- Frank Sinatra

User avatar
Drunkskunk
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 7021
Joined: Apr 14, 2007 11:37 am
Location: Dallas, Texas. U.S.A.

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Drunkskunk » Sep 09, 2014 10:55 am

It hasn't got the mass to be an endurance motor like a 54xx or the crown, but with a stator that wide, I bet it's got plenty of punch for a sprint. I've got more motors than bikes right now, but I might interested.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
Monster Bike:https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=38667

miuan
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1035
Joined: Nov 26, 2009 4:16 am
Location: Slovakia

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by miuan » Sep 09, 2014 12:11 pm

neptronix wrote: the axle is probably going to be more reliable than the H40xx's at the very least.
For reference, what have been the issues with H40XX axles? Sorry I've neved owned one.

User avatar
neptronix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13063
Joined: Jun 15, 2010 5:56 pm
Location: People's republic of Petrolistan ( Utah, USA )
Contact:

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by neptronix » Sep 09, 2014 1:22 pm

The Crystalyte HS35XX and HS40XX axles are famous for shearing at the point where the wire enters the axle. This is a major design problem that has still yet to be corrected. Some people even make aftermarket axles for those motors because of this, but they have to be pressed in via machine, so that is not an easy fix.

The magic pie and cromotor are good examples of high power motors with decent axles. I've not heard of either axles failing before, unless user error is involved. If you run one of those crystalytes long enough, you can almost be sure that the axle will fail in time.

It's pretty safe to say that if a few trusted companies start selling these larger 9C motors, crystalyte is gonna feel the hurt. I have no sympathy for them because they willingly continue to sell products that are flawed and unsafe by design..
miuan wrote:
neptronix wrote: the axle is probably going to be more reliable than the H40xx's at the very least.
For reference, what have been the issues with H40XX axles? Sorry I've neved owned one.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

User avatar
Emoto
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 475
Joined: Jun 13, 2011 9:31 am
Location: Australia

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Emoto » Sep 09, 2014 3:03 pm

Great find alex
This fits the gap nicerly between a 9c 28mm stator clone and a more expencive 40xx clyde with there questionable axles im excited.
Drunkskunk wrote:It hasn't got the mass to be an endurance motor like a 54xx or the crown, but with a stator that wide, I bet it's got plenty of punch for a sprint. I've got more motors than bikes right now, but I might interested.
One of these vented for big burst/sprint riding would be unreal. this is number one on my list for next build
edit shame cellman has stopped selling mxus... or :idea: if a few of us get together he might be interested
My first build #1 The long road https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=50752
Build #2 Street Machine https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=83235
My Diy cam Before go pro existed https://vimeo.com/33071514

stevc
10 W
10 W
Posts: 99
Joined: Mar 12, 2013 10:03 am
Location: Orange N.S.W.

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by stevc » Sep 09, 2014 7:10 pm

louis raaijmakers wrote:looks promising
i have mailed them for buying 1 for testing.
i guess this is also a single speed hub?
but it is still strange to me that this one is better than a 40xx crystalite :?
and cheaper.

maybe becouse it doesn't look so bad ass as a crystalite.
greeting louis
Please keep us informed if you get your hands on one.

User avatar
louis raaijmakers
100 W
100 W
Posts: 175
Joined: Oct 09, 2013 3:22 pm

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by louis raaijmakers » Sep 10, 2014 2:38 am

stevc wrote:
louis raaijmakers wrote:looks promising
i have mailed them for buying 1 for testing.
i guess this is also a single speed hub?
but it is still strange to me that this one is better than a 40xx crystalite :?
and cheaper.

maybe becouse it doesn't look so bad ass as a crystalite.
greeting louis
Please keep us informed if you get your hands on one.

haven't go a mail back..
but i will keep you up to date

louis

User avatar
mlt34
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1448
Joined: Jan 19, 2011 12:23 pm
Location: Florida/Tel Aviv
Contact:

Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by mlt34 » Sep 10, 2014 10:03 am

Any word on the KV?
Are you planning your first electric bicycle conversion? I wrote a book that teaches beginners everything they need to know about building their own ebike.
Then I wrote the book (literally) on building custom lithium batteries.
I also write for EbikeSchool.com, a site that does mainly how-to style articles and other informational write-ups. Check out our youtube channel for great how-to battery building videos.
Lastly, I run www.Vruzend.com, which sells solderless 18650 battery kits, 18650 cells, li-ion chargers, BMSs and more!

Post Reply