The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by spinningmagnets » Oct 26 2014 6:24pm

Kinaye Motorsports has put together a 1-hour-20 minute video with a comprehensive start-to-finish hubmotor wheel-lacing and discussion video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ3Ji72 ... e=youtu.be




I am thinking about tackling my first wheel build. I may assemble a Xiongda 2-speed onto a 26-inch rim, or a Bafang BPM, and...it appears the only way to make sure I get the motor I want (BPM 10T) is to buy the unlaced motor with no spokes or rim. Also, I have read many times that when you do get an entire wheel, the spokes and rim quality are sometimes disappointing, so...any money that you saved on a pre-assembled wheel is off-set by paying more for shipping a larger box, and then needing to throw the rim/spokes away.

Offset rim
Often, a front wheel has the spoke-flanges equally spaced from the center, so the spokes from both sides are the same length. Sometimes, a rear wheel has evenly-spaced spoke-flanges, but the width of the 7-speed sprocket-cluster means in order to have the wheel-rim centered (to work properly with a rim-brake)...the rim has to be off-set nearer to the sprockets, so the freewheel side spokes need to be shorter than the disc brake side spokes.

Radial, one-cross, 2-cross lacing pattern
I am told a radial lacing is quite bad, since it doesn't allow the spokes to be able to properly do their job. A large hub in a smaller rim may have no other option (and this is why the 20-inch Magic Pie has cast aluminum spokes).

A smaller hub in a larger rim can have a 2-cross pattern, which apparently works quite well. However, if you are lacing a larger hub to a rim, you may have to settle for a one-cross pattern to avoid the spokes having too much of an angle. (pedal-only bicycles often have a 3-cross pattern, and in rare cases, a 4-cross...I have never seen an electric hubmotor where a 3-cross or more was appropriate due to the resulting extreme nipple angles)
SpokeLacing3.png
Radial, one-cross, 2-cross
SpokeLacing3.png (55.09 KiB) Viewed 15566 times
Wheel Rims
Double-wall rims have grown in popularity, but if you are switching a single-wall rim to a double-wall, you may need slightly shorter spokes. Double-walled rims are stronger and have been developed for mountain bikes and downhill bikes. Rims often have their weights listed, and that was originally for builders who wanted to save weight. However, for an electric bike, a rim that is heavier (between two choices) is likely to be stronger.

Here is a pic of the nipple heads on a single-walled rim (pic courtesy of Sheldon Browns website)
Image
SpokeLacing4.png
single-wall, double-wall rims
SpokeLacing4.png (122.94 KiB) Viewed 15563 times
Double-butted spokes
Thinner spokes are able to flex better, but their thin-ness makes them weaker than a thicker spoke. Spokes that are thicker only at the head are "butted" or sometimes called "single-butted", and spokes that are thicker at both ends are "Double Butted". The double butted spokes were invented to save a very small amount of weight.

I recommend single-butted because a thicker nipple end will restrict the nipple from sitting in line with the spoke (the eyelet forces the nipple to sit near 90-degrees, while the spoke is at an angle). Any angle in the spoke right next to the nipple may eventually cause a spoke to break at that point. The xiongda hub on page 3 needed to keep thinner 14ga nipples, but the head could have been as large as a very strong 12ga. If building one of those again, I am told that 13/14ga single-butted spokes are available. Pedal-only wheels often do not have as much angle to the spokes as a hub motor.
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/s ... ust14.html
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Effective Rim Diameter (ERD)
Image
SpokeLacing1.png
ERD
SpokeLacing1.png (155.67 KiB) Viewed 15566 times
_______________________________________
ETRTO
(European Tire and Rim Technical Organization): Standards organization for tire and rim sizes
An ETRTO size marked 23-622 indicates the width of 23 mm and the tire inner diameter of 622 mm. This designation is clear and allows an unequivocal match with the corresponding rim size. [pic courtesy of http://www.presto.nl/]

Image
_______________________________________

Spoke Pitch Circle Diameter (PCD)
This blueprint of the Bafang BPM shows a PCD of 168mm
SpokeLacing2.png
BPM blueprint
SpokeLacing2.png (53.7 KiB) Viewed 15566 times
Flange To Center width
Most front hubs have the spoke flanges equally spaced from the center of the hub, but...some rear hubs have flanges that are off-set by design, while other rear hubs have flanges centered on the motor (requiring two different lengths of spoke to work). In the pic below, the motor on the right has the spoke flanges centered on the motor, and the hub on the left has off-set flanges so all spokes can be the same length, while still allowing room for the 7-speed freewheel.

Image
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Spoke Length
The spoke length is measured from the...let's call it the "chin" of the spoke-head, so it can easily be measured by a gauge like this:
Image
Image

"Paladin" recommended taking an old screwdriver and cutting a notch in the tip of the blade to make snugging-up the spokes easier (since the spoke tip ends up poking out the hole if it is fully engaged on the threads, as it should be.
Image

____________________________________________

Adding washers under the nipple or spoke head
From the Sheldon Brown site:
"...Flange thicknesses vary, but the spoke's elbow should be snug against the flange. If it is not, the spoke's tension will try to bend the spoke at the elbow -- a frequent cause of spoke breakage.
SpokeWashers.png
You solve this problem by sliding a small washer onto each spoke before inserting it into the hub. Most spokes will accept a 2 mm (metric bolt size) or #2 (US bolt size) washer. Brass washers are best. These are not commonly available through bicycle parts suppliers, but they can be purchased over the Internet..." (pic of washers under spoke heads http://endless-sphere.com/forums/downlo ... p?id=78448)

You can also add washers under the nipple, in order to use a certain nipple in a larger rim-hole.

Image

________________________________________________

Eyelets
Eyelets are a steel grommet that is installed to strengthen the point where the nipple puts tension on the rim holes. A single-walled rim can have a single eyelet, but a double-walled rim (recommended for heavy hub motors) can have either a single eyelet, or a double-eyelet. A "double eyelet" spreads the stress to both the upper and lower wall of a double-walled rim.
SpokeLacing6.png
A single eyelet on a double-walled rim
SpokeLacing6.png (22.01 KiB) Viewed 15174 times
SpokeLacing5.png
A double walled rim with no eyelets on the left, and a double-walled rim with double eyelets on the right.
Spoke Length Calculators
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html (my favorite)
http://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/fullcalc
http://leonard.io/edd (recommended by Chalo)
________________________________________________
Start with the inner spokes, (tip thanks to motomech)...The next two tips are courtesy of the Steve Litt "trouble shooters" link posted by Marc S.

When you start lacing a hub to a rim, the outbound spokes are easy to install at any time, however...the inbound spokes will be restricted by any spoke that is already installed. It is recommended to install ALL of the inbound spokes before starting the outbounds.

Image

The starting point should always be the air valve stem. it should be "boxed" with the adjacent spokes angled away from the stem:

Image
__________________________________________________
From Sheldon Browns website:
http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

Image

____________________________________________________
Spoke gauge shaft diameter in mm:

http://custommotoredbicycles.com/12_gau ... eel12g_11g

15 gauge = 1.8mm

14 gauge = 2.0mm (common bicycle spoke dia)

13 gauge = 2.3mm (common small hubmotor ebike spoke dia)

12 gauge = 2.6mm (common large hubmotor ebike spoke dia)

11 gauge = 2.9mm

10 gauge = 3.0mm

_____________________________________________
Nipples

The nipples should have their threads fully engaged all the way up to the slot in the head. It is better for the spoke to be one mm too long, than an mm too short.

Sapim Polyax
Sapim hexagonal

Pic courtesy of the Serotta forum
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Image

Image
_________________________________________

Put the nipple on an extra spoke in reverse, it makes it MUCH easier to get the nipple onto its destination spoke.
2015-03-11 10.26.54.jpg
How to easily get a nipple onto its spoke
2015-03-11 10.26.54.jpg (88.67 KiB) Viewed 14223 times
Motorcycle rims (seen below) have directional holes for the nipples, because the pattern is fixed. Bicycle rim sellers to E-bikers don't know if you will use a one-cross, or a 2-cross pattern, so the holes are all radial. Neil Paisnel has had some success by "angle drilling" the holes slightly in order to reduce angle-strain on the spoke, just as it exits the nipple.

Image

In this pic, notice the nipples are radial (at 90-degrees to rim) but the spokes are at an angle, which focuses stress on the spoke right where it exits the nipple (pic courtesy of cresh):

Image

______________________________
Pic from Offroader

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LFP spoke disaster
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xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
A list of odd rim sizes, such as antique bikes
...The problem is this old 26" rim measures 24" whilst all my other 26" rims measure 22 - 22.5"...[drunkskunk] I'd say it's E.A.3, 650A, ISO 590, which is an old department store "26" size. It's an obsolete size, but you can still get tires for them...
My old 80's road bike was 27", that seemed pretty common at the time
http://sheldonbrown.com/rim-sizing.html

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by spinningmagnets » Oct 26 2014 6:25pm

Tires, and their effect on rim choice.

I am planning on using the CST-Cyclops (26 X 2.4). It is a well-regarded tire for E-bikes on the street. There are other tires that are better, but for roughly $15 each...these affordable tires have a nice balance between softness of rubber compound that corners well enough, and hardness that lasts a reasonable amount of time.

At 2.4 inches at its fattest sidewall width, that equals 61mm, and according to Sheldon Browns site, a 30mm wide rim (or more) is optimal (but narrower and wider rims will work). Sometimes the narrowest possible rims that will fit are chosen to save weight, but for ebikes a few extra ounces are not of concern, while strength is more important for us than with a pedal-only bike. A narrow rim with a wide tire and using low pressure puts the rider in danger of a pinch-flat. It appears that using the widest possible rim works well, and added weight is the only issue it causes. A good rule of thumb might be to use a rim that is half the width of the preferred tire (or slightly wider rim).

[using 32 spokes instead of 36 is also sometimes chosen for lower weight. The most common E-bike hubmotors use 36-holes (36H), so ensure the hole-count matches the hub you want to lace the rim to]

The 2.4-inch Cyclops tire is 61mm and the Alexrims DM24 is 24mm. Another option is the $22 Weinmann ZAC-19, 26 X 1.5-inch/38mm

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by spinningmagnets » Oct 26 2014 6:31pm

Xiongda 2-speed hub laced to a 29'r rim

Sapim 'Strong' Butted 13/14g spokes and Sapim Polyax nipples
Mavic A119 700c 36h Road Rim 2014

Spokes came out as 258mm and 260mm (shorter on one side for dishing) for me that meant max angle was over 81 degrees, and the sapim nipples can still seat perfectly at 9 degrees, so 2x times was ideal for me

https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/v ... =3&t=64293
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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by motomech » Oct 26 2014 6:51pm

Always install the "inners" first, then the "outers".
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by amberwolf » Oct 26 2014 7:32pm

Note that it may also be possible for a hub to be made so that no offset is needed on a rear, but it also probalby means a weaker wheel vs sideloading becuase *both* flanges will be closer to the center, not just the right one. :/

AFAICR there are at least some hubmotors that have done this.


EDIT: Nevermind; you've added that to the OP (or I missed it hte first time). :oops:

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by spinningmagnets » Oct 26 2014 7:37pm

You're right AW, I have been adding as I have been searching, and also as I am reading the added posts.

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by ScooterMan101 » Oct 27 2014 1:58am

Two of the most trusted bike mechanics in my area, (working at different shops )
Said ..
-That Double butted spokes are stronger than regular spokes, and to use size 2.0/1.8 mm , and they like DT Swiss spokes the best, although I might go with a cheeper brand if you find they are just as good, somewhere on E.S. I found a link to danscomp.com for spokes. please let me know if you find out they have good enough spokes , since they have some very good prices.

I was going to try myself to build my wheel up, but have decided to pay a local mechanic do it , ( he is a certified , trained wheel builder, guarantee his work and he will calculate the spoke length and determine if I need any dishing and how much, all including proper tension of the spokes, for $ 60 labor, not including cost of the spokes )

Looks like you can calculate things like a wheel build better than me, so you would save the cost of labor .
in my case it will be better in the long run to pay him to do it.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by ScooterMan101 » Oct 27 2014 2:25am

Sapim , Double butted 14g/15g spoke with nipple

anyone here have experience with those spokes ?

I have heard DT Swiss spokes are best, however coming from Switzerland they are expensive, is there any other spoke just as good
for a much better price, than DT Swiss ?
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by Herrsprocket » Oct 27 2014 2:41am

Hey SM,

Well, bummer. I had two BPMII's, code 10's, 36V 500 watters, all laced up in Alex DA 16 rims (double walled), using Sapim double butted spokes and Sapim polyax nipples. They were in the for sale section. Both are gone as of a couple of weeks ago. Wish I could have helped you with an already done project.

Anyway, if you get spokes for it, I highly recommend the Sapim spokes and nipples. Great quality! One of the nice selling points of the polyax nipples is that they "pivot" in the rim hole so as to not put such a great strain on the nipple and spoke as they make the angle coming from the rim. They rotate slightly in the rim allowing the spoke to not have so much strain on them. And I do agree about the double butted being a stronger spoke.

Might I suggest that unless you have not built wheels before (as you say), that you either pay for someone else to do it, OR, get another wheel (used, not taco'ed, under 5 bucks) and take it all apart, then practice rebuilding it yourself. Do it at least a couple of times (actually more if you can), until you can get the wheel to be dished properly, no hop and laterally smooth. It's a good thing to learn! Oh, and get some good tension on those spokes, makes them very strong, radially and laterally! Getting it dialed in takes a bit of practice, but you can do it! Just pay attention to the process, go slow and build that wheel!

Tom

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by dogman dan » Oct 27 2014 8:34am

Maybe I missed it as I skimmed this thread, but as I self taught myself to lace a rim I noticed that it was easiest to figure out what spoke goes in what hole by thinking of the pattern as 4 spokes in a pattern that repeats. Just think of 4 spokes at a time, and the pattern becomes quite simple.

Once you get the first 4 in correctly all the rest just fall into a pattern.

Take note of which spoke crosses over which. lace so they bend over each other, and you will get a springy wheel with no spokes that buzz. If the elbow of the spoke points in, that spoke goes out and around the adjacent spoke that has the elbow pointing out.

Look at another wheel as you get started, and you will see how they cross each other resulting in a curve in each spoke.

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by Ykick » Oct 27 2014 9:00am

Practice makes perfect and there's always plenty of junk wheels to practice truing and eventually tear down and re-lace. 1 cross hub motors are actually pretty easy when compared to 3 cross regular bike hub wheels.

I clean and oil threads and in the beginning worked as 4pcs (x9 = 36) like DM described. Once you see and understand lace pattern it will become easier to adopt the "inner then outer" principle in order to avoid bending some spokes to feed into the pattern.

I'm up to about 10 motor wheels and 5-6 regular wheels and they're all much better/stronger than stock. Danscomp doesn't list them but if you ask they can roll Sapim 13/14ga butted for $0.49/ea. But only between 156-300mm length IIRC.

Guitar pick for tuning even tension. I've never used a tension meter but I'm fairly confident they're close enough based on some good wheels I've compare with similar lengths. I've changed strings on Autoharps so tensioning/tuning a bunch of wire is nothing new to me.
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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by silence » Oct 27 2014 7:35pm

spinningmagnets wrote: Wheel Rims
Double-wall rims have grown in popularity, but if you are switching a single-wall rim to a double -wall, you may need slightly shorter spokes.
When doing this switch on regular non-motorized cheap bicycle wheels - typically 36 spokes and 3-cross lacing - you can save a few bucks sometimes and re-lace the wheel with old spokes, but in 4-cross.
This pattern "shortenes" the spoke by a few millimeters. Set of 36 spokes can sometimes cost as much as a cheap double-wall rim - at least where I live.
Both patterns are good for 36-spoke wheels, but anything higher than 3-cross are not recommended for wheels with 32 or less spokes - thats what Sheldon Brown said.
This tip will not work on hubmotors due to their large diameter ufortunately.

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by ScooterMan101 » Oct 28 2014 1:15am

@ Tom

Where do you get Polyax Nipples ? and Sapim Spokes ?
the place I have found for Sapim Spokes, does not have the Polyax Nipples .

>

Well, bummer. I had two BPMII's, code 10's, 36V 500 watters, all laced up in Alex DA 16 rims (double walled), using Sapim double butted spokes and Sapim polyax nipples. They were in the for sale section. Both are gone as of a couple of weeks ago. Wish I could have helped you with an already done project.

Anyway, if you get spokes for it, I highly recommend the Sapim spokes and nipples. Great quality! One of the nice selling points of the polyax nipples is that they "pivot" in the rim hole so as to not put such a great strain on the nipple and spoke as they make the angle coming from the rim. They rotate slightly in the rim allowing the spoke to not have so much strain on them. And I do agree about the double butted being a stronger spoke.



Tom[/quote]
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by Herrsprocket » Oct 28 2014 5:01pm

Hi,

You can get the Sapim stuff at Bike Tools Etc: http://www.biketoolsetc.com/ .

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by d8veh » Oct 29 2014 4:37am

I've built about 10 motor-wheels that needed the rim offset. I've never yet used two different length spokes. The spoke calculators normally give about 1mm difference. I buy my spokes from stockists who never have the exact size the calculator gives anyway, so I take the nearest standard size. When you use double-walled rims, there's plenty of room for the spoke to poke through the nipple. You can go up to about 5mm before you run out of thread. Obviously it's best to get the correct size spokes. What I'm trying to say is that it's nothing to panic about if you want to use some that are not quite right. I would say that a practical tolerance on the spoke length is something like -2.0mm + 3.0mm. If you have shallow rims, the plus tolerance would go down depending on how shallow it is.

If you get a rim with eyelets, 13g nipples are often very tight, which holds the nipple at 90 deg to the rim and very tight to turn. It's better to go down to 14g spokes and nipples, which will allow the correct exit angle for a one-cross pattern. You might get two-cross if you have a large rim or small motor.

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by spinningmagnets » Oct 29 2014 7:46am

When you use double-walled rims, there's plenty of room for the spoke to poke through the nipple. You can go up to about 5mm before you run out of thread
I'd say that's a major benefit to E-bike wheel-builders. Plus with the added weight of the hub in the wheel, when hitting a pothole, I would think all E-bikers should consider the added strength of a double-wall rim a requirement. Thanks for that info.

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by teslanv » Oct 29 2014 9:18am

I will be buying a 17" Moto Rim and Spokes from Johnrobholmes (http://www.holmesbikes.com) for my 45mm MXUS motor. This will be my first Wheel build, and I am looking forward to the education.
Luckily, a used bike store in my area offers a class on wheel building, which I will probably take.
http://www.recycledcycles.com/classes

Thanks for starting this great resource, SM!
DD Hubs, Batteries, Controllers & Custom Ebikes.
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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by amberwolf » Oct 29 2014 2:02pm

Regarding being able to use longer spokes than necessary because of the thickness of a doublewall rim:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 0&p=819422

I had to do something like that then, and so far, after grinding off the "excess" spoke length that actually stuck out beyond the top wall of the rim (because mine were so long that the extra thickness made it possible but only helped *some*), it has worked out just fine for months, on CrazyBike2.

Image

Image

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by bowlofsalad » Oct 29 2014 2:03pm

Wheelpro.co.uk < Read the book from here
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004H1 ... 2QTLA3Q7UK This video and it's part two are both excellent and worth watching twice. If I could, I'd get anyone with any hint of wheel building question to watch these videos.

Practice, maybe build a new front wheel from parts you sourced yourself.

http://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/fullcalc This is my favorite spoke calculator. The visualization and the ability to accurately put all of the numbers in (such as spoke bed offset) is something I really appreciate. However, I still use wheelpro.co.uk calculator as well, I think they add .3mm to the calculated lengths, but they show spoke angle (hover the mouse over the calculated lengths to see it). Kstoerz.com also has a list of rim/hub measurements which is extremely useful when hunting for parts. Ebikes.ca is a fine calculator, but I feel like it is incomplete, missing key features that you may come to understand are important.

Sapim polyax nipples are claimed to be able to go from the standard 6 degree spoke angle limit to 9 degrees spoke angle limit, this is important in my opinion. Some feel this limit is flexible, but I'd rather not risk reducing the reliability(my priority) of the wheel.

This is a mildly related subject, but I think it's worth mentioning. From checking the trueness of your run to changing a flat, it's probably best to do these things by removing the wheel from the bicycles dropouts. I -really- recommend considering setting up open mouth dropouts for your torque arms. Being able to loosen a pair of nuts to get the wheel out is a world of difference compared to removing something like http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/t ... rm-v4.html this. Maybe those torque arms are strong, but they sure as hell aren't convenient. That is why I -highly- recommend doctorbass's torque arms. I am not a shill, I have no affiliation, just an enthusiast with a well formed and experienced opinion. https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/v ... 00#p693653 There are few situations where these aren't of benefit, but if you are going to be checking your wheel for trueness after each ride on your newly, self built ebike wheel, you'll be saving yourself countless hours. They are an incredible value, in my opinion.
Last edited by bowlofsalad on Sep 30 2015 11:09pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by Obiwan007 » Oct 29 2014 3:33pm

On my last build I laced my first wheels. One front regular hub and the rear cromotor. Both turned out fantastic and I have since been inspecting every wheel I see and have found that the bicycle world suffers from chronic under-tensioned spoke syndrome. When learning how to lace my wheels I found the following article invaluable it is a bit long but it explains, step-by-step all the things you will need to know to build a super quality, true and balanced wheel without the need of fancy equipment, gauges or stands.
http://miketechinfo.com/new-tech-wheels-tires.htm

The article is long but necessary if you are starting from the beginning. It does not cover determining spoke length or how to do the various lacing patterns. Plenty of help for that elsewhere on the net. But thoroughly covers the process of accurately tensioning and truing the spokes and the tools (minimal) needed to do so. I recommend it highly.

Also there are numerous spoke calculators on the net including the AWSOME one on the Grin site, but I found this one.
http://kstoerz.com/freespoke/fullcalc

I found particularly useful for e-bike builds because of two features. First the ability to easily build in dish with a separate entry box in the calculator. Second, the graphic representation of the spoke angles once the calculation is made. You can easily see just how close the dished side spokes approach verticle with your given dish. Try it out I think you will like it.

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by Obiwan007 » Oct 29 2014 3:35pm

Ha, bowl of salad beat me to the punch for freespoke.

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by ScooterMan101 » Oct 30 2014 12:25am

@ spinningmagnets

You do not say what size wheel you are building .

After much research here is what I bought for my 26 inch wheel build , the Alex Supra BH 559x25
Sold here, with free shipping for orders over $ 50 http://www.jensonusa.com/Alex-Supra-BH-DH-Rim
It has eyelets , so no nipple washers needed.

for a 27.5 inch ( 650b ) The Mavic EN 321 is the way go . http://www.jensonusa.com/Mavic-En-321-Disc-275-Rim
It also have eyelets , for a better wheel build.

Also
I have just found out that the spoke hole diameter on the flanges is 3 mm which I am told is for 13 gauge spokes
and to build up a electric hub motor with spokes that are 13 gauge at bend, and 14 gauge at the nipple end, since most nipples are 14 gauge .

I had been listening to Bicycle Mechanics about wheel building and they say go with 14/15/14, but they do not build up electric hub motors. which have a 3 mm hole at the hub flange. So now it looks like the best for Electric Hub Motors is 13 gauge to 14 gauge at the threads/rim
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by friendly1uk » Oct 30 2014 12:34am

My local sapim bloke just stopped cutting the strongs. He couldn't get a good consistency. I had to send him some old stock back to cut further, as what he had in was no good.

Use at least 2 spoke length calculators. If you do get the length wrong, your supplier might be happy to shorten them a bit more for minimal cost. He can't make them longer though.

If my motor is 180mm across, I will stand it with the axle vertically, in a pan 150mm across. Then with the 180mm motor sat on the 150mm pan rim I continue. Propping the rim up in place with cereal boxes, I will find the valve hole and copy another bike lol.

I have been putting 165mm bpm motors in 26" wheels using spokes around 200mm long. I use a single cross pattern with all spoke heads on the inside and the trailing spokes cross on the outermost side. This I do with rim brakes, but would alternate which of the crossing pair was outermost if I had disc brakes. I'm not a pro builder though. I'm another traveler finding my way.

I took a pic, as I couldn't find much when I looked. The hub powers round anti-clockwise looking from this angle. The spokes are butted, and change size at the cross.
Image063.jpg
Image063.jpg (104.64 KiB) Viewed 4165 times
Last edited by friendly1uk on Oct 30 2014 1:02am, edited 1 time in total.
bmsbattery sent me broken and incorrect stuff, and won't even talk to me about it.

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by Samd » Oct 30 2014 12:58am

motomech wrote:Always install the "inners" first, then the "outers".
You couldn't tell me this 24 hours ago!!!! :roll: :mrgreen:
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

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Re: The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips

Post by Paladin » Oct 30 2014 2:54pm

I jumped into this last year. Its not as bad as it seems.

Take your time, all you need is a small screwdriver. Don't really need a spoke wrench.
Can use the bike to true the wheel on just flip it over.
Rims that have the washer at the nipple hole seem to tension smoother, as compared to just a hole in the rim.

Been using the Sapim 14/15g front and 13/14g rear butted spokes, works good.

http://holmeshobbies.com/Sapim-Stainles ... stseller=Y


Something I found helpful was this ...http://www.atomiczombie.com/Tutorial%20 ... e%201.aspx

And this...http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html, Looks like already in use here.

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