The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 12, 2016 3:47 am

Got some more today done, but not nearly as much as I'd hoped, partly cuz I'm just tired and not going as fast as I ought, and partly from delays from a lot of little things, like Kirin trying to set herself on fire.

She isn't hurt, or even singed, (except maybe her tongue and some random hairs here and there) but as it got dark enough for the welding slag and sparks to really show up, she decided that they were something she REALLY had to chase and try to eat, while I was welding up part of the frame. I've never had a dog (or other animal) that would do that, so I wasn't prepared for it to happen.

Knowing Kirin, I probably *should* have been, because she'll chase/hunt pretty much anything that moves or makes a noise, and loves to chase laser lights, and the welding slag is all of those in one.

She didnt' have any burns on her tongue/etc that I can see, but whatever she first touched must have hurt enough to make her stop before she really got some bigger hotter bits. But I had to make her go inside and stay while I finished up the welding, becuase every time I started to, she'd go back to chasing the slag. :/

Before that, she was just laying around in between bouts of playing with Yogi:
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Back to the trike:

I hadn't noticed until today, but there is a red arrow sticker on the MXUS3K that indicates it's a directional motor, like the X5304. But it points in the wrong direction:
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If the motor is really intended to drive in that direction, then it would make a bicycle go backwards, because the freewheel is on the right in that picture cuz the trike's upside down.

There are several possibilities:
--Sticker was put on backwards
--Covers are swapped (not by me as I never got the wire-side disc brake mount cover off, but the motor *has* been repaired by someone (Kinaye? I think) according to Neptronix, due to wire damage.
--Stator is backwards
--Rotor is backwards.

I looked around and the pics I see of other MXUS's similar to this one have the wire exiting the disc side as well, so the stator isn't backwards, or covers swapped.

So that leaves either rotor or sticker as backwards.

AFAIK the pics in this thread are of this actual motor:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =9&t=84337
which means the magnets are all straight, not angled, but can't see the stator tooth slots to see if they are angled. If they are not, then it is not a directional motor, and it doesnt' matter which way the arrow points or how the rotor is installed / stator points. From my pics, like DSC06279.jpg earlier in this thread, the little one can see of the teeth doesn't seem to show any angling. So it's probably not directional.

Well, actually, it could have the halls placed in a nonsymmetrical way in the stator teeth, and *that* might make it directional, I guess. But I can't find any info on that; from the thread above and my pics (DSC06276 and DSC6278.jpg earlier in this thread) they appear to be symmetrically installed (two centered in teeth and the center one in the gap between). So probalby not directional.

Not gonna worry about it ATM, though. :)



Next up is getting the motor to fit in the trike frame.

I did the first part of the axle mod, on the drive side, and didn't need to do a mod on the wire side. I ground away just enough to let the axle sit in the clamping dropouts, and get the freewheel sprocket lined up with the trike's drive output sprocket. I did not file it square, but left it rounded, to lessen the stress-riser effect.
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I also had to cut about 1/2" off the axle on that end, to clear the clamping bolt that sits in line with the axle. (I'd put that bolt way out away from the original 9C's axle, but this one is MUCH longer than that motor's).
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Then I bent the outboard dropout-holding-frame outward a bit, and the motor now fits right in there.
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Another issue cropped up. Since the phase wires are all soldered on the 9C to the controller, and I don't want to cut them yet (not till I move the rim/spokes over to the MXUS, so if I have to use the trike I still can, albeit with some work to clamp or bolt the outboard end of the 9C's axle to the now-wider dropout), the small chain loop to go to the trike's output sprocket would ahve to be undone with the tool...so instead I just got out some other chain off an old BMX and made a new one...
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But it won't work; I need a half-link to do it. That seemed wierd becuase I didn' tneed one with the 9C, and the axles are in the same place. Turns out the freewheel I'd used on the 9C was a 16T, not the 18T I'd thought, but the one I used on the MXUS3K *is* an 18T, so the extra link it takes makes the new chain a 17-link rather than a 16-link, and that means that with no way to tension it that much, it won't work without a half-link, which I don't have.

So for now I'll have to take the 16T (and the 16-link chain) off the 9C to use on the MXUS, when I switch over. Oh, well. If I find (or make) a half-link then I can switch to the larger freewheel, which will increase low-end torque and decrease speed, for pedals, which is perfectly ok with me (since they're only there in case the motor system isnt' working for some reason and I have to pedal (otherwise I'd have to walk/limp home), cuz I can't push hard, and cant' even do the normal stuff for long.


Note that to ensure parallelism of the sprockets, I had to modify a torque washer (rounding its end to match the dropout's "U" shape) to "lift" (actually force-down) the outboard end of the axle just a bit, to line up both ends of the axle the same. THis is probably because when I moved the dropouts outward, it also moves htem upward as they pivot around the frame; and tis not a lot just enough to misalign things. I can fix it permanently any number of ways, but this works just fine.
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On to the frame:

I removed the 1/2" tubing, and modified a 1" tube to fit the spot instead, including some notches to clear the MXUS's disc brake mount.
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I cut a section out of the tube to fit it onto the dropout and connecting tubing, and will weld that all solid later.
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The wider dropouts means this now clears the tire even with 1" tube (wouldnt' have before), like this iwth the 9C motor (which would require some thing bolted or clamped between the axle plate and the dropout to hold it in there.
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It also clears the wide MXUS3k housing, which also clears the drive sprocket and chain (but not by much)
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The only serious problem with doing stuff this way is that it leaves the axle sticking out quite a long ways, and is definitely enough to keep it from going thru a doorway if I need it to (and possibly more of the bollards on bike paths; it's already too wide fro some of them).
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The only real solution I know for this is to cut the axle off just outboard of the dropouts, and weld a plate to it like I did the 9C, that can then be bolted to the dropouts.

What I will rpobably do for now is just cut the axle just outboard of the axle nut, so it's only the nut's width sticking out (saves over an inch, at least).



I clamped it together prior to tackwelding it; incluidng repalicng the 1/2" tube that forms the rear of the fender base, to increase the strength of the cargo bed and connect this new thicker outer rail with the H-frame under the bed so it's all 1" tubing now. I ddi not change out the 1/2" tubing that forms the diagonal from that cross-brace froward to the inboard dropout, as there is already a parallel 1" tube inches away tha's also welded to the dropout area.
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Then I got the other triangulation bar from the main trike frame to the left side of the "transaxle" tube installed. (the right side was done when Teddy was still around; basically the last time I really worked on the trike before this weekend)
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More tomorrow, hopefully.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 13, 2016 12:09 am

Well, I finished up the frame on both sides, just still need to rebuild the fender frames.
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Buuuut...I somehow have screwed up a few things (as usual):

--Even though the measurements and placement of frame bits and dropouts are the same on both sides, the right side's tire easily clears the top outside tube, but the left side's tire does not--yet it DID clear it just fine before I modified the frame to widen it for the MXUS3k motor.
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I'm still using the 9C motor wheel, whcih still fits in the space, just that it's axle end is too short to reach the dropout, and isntead rests on the base of the outer top side tube.
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--Even though nothing has changed in the relative spacing for the inboard leftside clamping dropout vs the trike's output sprocket, as none of that was modified, the chain to the 9C's freewheel (which also hasn't hcanged) no longer fits tightly, and the freewheel is no longer alighned with the output sprocket--but it was all fine before I messed with the frame, yet since nothing was done to this section I don't see how it could be messed up (yet it is).

--I managed to actually break the chain (one side plate snapped in half!) on the short 16-link chain from output sprocket to freewheel, trying to pedal it around in lowest gear, with that tire rubbing. I could barely push hard enough for 1/4 crank revolution at a time, which at least tells me that under heavily loaded condtions I probably still can't pedal this thing around. I've never broken a chain like that before; the closest I've come with that was on CB2's old powerchair drivetrain, where a chain wrapped around and tacoed chainrings and destroyed a rear wheel too, and twisted up the chain pretty badly; multiple links had to be replaced.
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I went ahead and welded up the frame as it is now, but I left the left side triangulation tubes between top and bottom side rails disconnected, so that I can push the lower rail down, or top rail up, or both, to give that clearance on the left side that the right side has.

I *should* cut everything off and redo it, but that's way more work than I can deal with anytime soon, so this will have to do for now. I started to do the bending tonight but it was already dark and I was being eaten by mosquitos, and tired, hungry, and frustrated, so I gave up for the night and packed up tools and stuff until I next have time to work on it (gotta work the rest of this week, so unlikely to get much done till next weekend).


I started to drill the new spoke holes in the MXUS3k flange, but the steel is pretty hard, and I only got a dimple in a couple of places before breaking the drillbit. I couldn't find another one of the right size, so that's on hold, too.


But at least with the frame solidly done (except for final fill-welding; it's strong enough to ride and carry stuff) I can start the rewiring, then cut and install the wood for the new cargo bed and the bottoms of the battery/tool/stuff box(es). The wood, like the original deck, is from old pallets (same as the deck of the MkIV trailer, too), and is about 1/2" thick but lightweight and fairly durable.

Still gotta come up with something for lids and locks, and decide how to hinge it for easiest access and the largest door possible on each side.

I have a number of small planks of wood that are thin and light, which may be the best things to use the covers and doors, perhaps on a metal frame. Will look kinda nice and won't boom and rattle like metal would, though it might be a bit more difficult to weatherproof. These are much smaller htan the pallet planks, more like 1/4" thick, and only about 3" wide and maybe a foot long. I think I have enough of them to cover the whole boxes area, for their front, sides, top, and back. If not, I can just use them for the lids/doors, and use the pallet planks for the rest of it.


I also ahve the ligthweight wood from those signs I brought home a few weeks back, pictured sitting against the side of the trike in some previous pics in this thread. I am considering putting one of those signs on each side panel, over the wheels, behind the boxes area. I could use it for pics of the dogs, or advertising (yuck, but if I can make enough money doing that I'd probably do it anyway, cuz I need it since hours were cut by 5 a week a few months back, and Raine's less and less able to contribute due to medical costs).


Side note: This is what I usually do to make "endcaps" for the tubes as I build stuff out of square tubing. I'll cut the pieces off not just flush, but notched, so there is a flap of material left. Then I bend that down to cover the open end of the tube, and weld it in place. This strengthens the ends/corners, and makes it harder for things to find their way into the frame.
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At some point I will want to make the rack removable again, and I have a couple of ideas on that, but for now it's all welded in place.


The hitch I think for now I will leave as-is, and just drill new holes for the bolts, and add two new bolts and holes up front, to firmly secure it for hauilng the trailer. Later I might change that, as well as adding the X brace under the cargo deck, but it'll do for now and get it back into service.


Right now the critical problem is the leftside frame rubbing on the tire, the misalignment and slackness of the chain (and it's breakage). Once that's fixed and the lighting system is rewired, it'll be rideable again, even if I'm just strapping the battery boxes onto the frame with hose clamps and using the "trunk" to carry tools and stuff in, until the other stuff is done.


So I can kinda see the light at the end of the tunnel, and squinting a bit can tell it's not just an oncoming train. ;)

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 14, 2016 2:10 pm

So I worked at it for a while trying to bend the frame at the dropout to push it downward to clear the tire from the fender frame, and even good two-handed whacks at the top of the dropout area with the 4lb sledgehammer doesn't move it at all. I guess that's a good thing in that it means it's really stiff and strong, with the 1" tubing there. With the old 1/2" tubing I "adjusted" it that way a few times, easily. :/


So I'll do it the other way, probably tomorrow as there's not enough time before getting ready for work today. I'll cut the fender tube at the rear rack support end (the only other connection is at the front box frame right now), then bend it upward until it clears the tire properly, then reweld it to the rear rack support. Then I'll rebend the triangulation tubing between fender tube and bottom rail/dropout, so that it again meets the fender tube and reweld that.

I doubt anything was really truly parallel before, anyway, so this bit more unparallel from left to rigth side won't make it much worse. :lol:


(I could just bend the fender tube in the middle with the sledge, to raise it up, but I'd like the top rail to stay flat rather than curved, and I don't really wanna crush the tube with the sledge blows--the dropout area is over 1/4" thick, maybe 3/8", solid steel, so whacking that isn't gonna crush anything, but the tube is just ~1/16" wall, and would crush with every blow, and might not bend enough until it's crushed flat and useless.)


I had planned to jack the two apart but can't find my hydraulic car jack. :roll: An old bumper jack didn't work cuz there's nowhere to hook it to, won't stay in place; would require significant modifications to the jack to do this; would rather spend the time and materials modding the trike the right way. I have a motorcycle lift from Bill, but it's way too big and heavy to manhandle into position to try to do this, if it would even stay in place while doing it (or fit in there). Works great to lift the trike up, though, if I get it in the right place. :)



Still havent' found my other small drillbits; probably gonna have to go buy a few (so when I break more of them I'll still be able to finish drilling the spoke holes in the MXUS). Also need to set up a jig to hold the motor in place under the drill press, to make it less likely I'll break the bits (doing it with a hand power drill is certain to break some like I already did the one).

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 17, 2016 4:42 am

I got the rail cut and rewelded, and the triangulation supports rewelded, too.

Still have to build the new fender "wells" on the inboard side of the wheels (to keep cargo from rubbing on them or catching in the spokes).

Rolls easy now.

Fixed the chain by making a new one up; the old is now spare links in my toolbag minus the broken link.

Got more of the full-seam welding done on the tubing interconnects (there's a lot of it, as teh more of the seams I fully close with welding, the stronger the connections and frame are). I'd guess I'm aobut 3/4 done with that.

Still gonna need to rewire everything, too. Going over it, there's a lot of stuff either damaged during the original short, or in the work I've done on the frame since then (nicked or cut or crushed or melted), and there's stuff I just would like to do differently. So I really ought to just redo it all from scratch...I might, mgiht not....but I should. :)

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 18, 2016 3:17 am

I've pondered getting some of these for years,
http://www.allelectronics.com/item/rtl- ... sed/1.html
Image
Image

to use as as tail/brake lights on CrazyBike2, but never really had the money to potentially throw away (if they didn't work or couldn't be used, etc), especially with shipping costs (which would've doubled the cost of a pair of them, from a little more than $30 to around $60, which wouldnt' be worth it cuz at that price I could buy new aftermarket motorcycle LED tail/brake lights instead...which I also never got around to due to cost.


But this weekend a friend happened to be going by All Electronics storefront on the way back to Phoenix from California, and asked if there was anything he could pick up for me, and they had them for just about $20/pair, which since there'd be no shipping costs put them within affordability, if I skip some other stuff I'd usually get in shopping. So a pair of these will be here in the next few days, whenever we have the chance to meet up next.


They are about a foot across, so they are quite a lot of surface area, and are supposed to have 150 LEDs in them. They were originally traffic lights for stop (red), so given that they are large, round, and red, and should be quite bright when driven properly, they ought to trigger the "slow down / stop" response in vehicles behind me, for the most part, moreso than just regular taillights. They're also weather-resistant, if not weather-proof.


Driving them...well, they're built to run off 120VAC, so I may have to rewire them. If they use an AC-DC converter, stepdown, then it's possible that will operate from my 14s NMC pack directly. That would be easy, so it's probably not how it works. ;)

More likely they are setup in series groups to run off the 120VAC with a rectifier (maybe capacitor, too, and dropping resistor to prevent peak current from exceeding the LED's rating), in which case I'll need to split those groups into smaller ones to run off my pack (probably off the 4s lighting pack, if that's possible), which would likely be a fair bit of wiring.

If I have to rewire the sections, I'll probably use them in groups so about a third of them are on all the time, maybe half, and then turn the others on when braking.

If it'll run on just it's existing setup, then if it uses a single dropping resistor for the current limiting, then I'll change that resistor to something higher resistance, and then use the brake light switch to parallel another with it, so that it increases the current flow during braking, brightening all of the LEDs at once, and having all of them on (but dimmer) as taillights.

I could also use them as turn signals, along with the amber incandescents I presently have on there.

Anyway, I'll find out when they get here what I'll need to do to use them.

Off the next couple days so will be working on the trike either way.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by dingoEsride » Dec 18, 2016 4:35 am

Wow! they are big lights but if they get the attention of those killer cars it would be worth it, do you also have turn indicators?
ride like the wind

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 19, 2016 2:13 am

Yes, they are the clear/chrome units at the ends of the light bar:
Image
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1150117

They are amber incandescent bulbs inside (I use LEDs on CrazyBike2, and on the trailer, but didnt' have any for the trike; I pulled these off DayGlo Avenger).

This pic taken today shows them better
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They work quite well, and are bright enough, but are rather small (only about 1/4 to 1/2 of the surface area of typical car/truck turn signals).

The same is true of my tail/brake lights.

In my observations of road users of all kinds, the larger the surface area (not necessarily the brighter, though sometimes that works too), the more likely they are to be seen and responded to, for whatever kind of signal light.

Also, the larger they are, the closer they appear, relative to what someone might expect for that general type of vehicle, and the quicker the response tends to be to avoid colliding with it.

So for instance, with these, since they are traffic lights, and will be down near ground level rather than way up on a pole over the road, they'll look a lot larger (and thus closer) than the brain of the road user has been trained to see them as, and should cause them to respond quicker and to slow, go around, or stop.

Of course, it might not really work like that, but it's worth a try, and they'll certainly be very visible, either way. ;)


I'll probably make a mount for them that will allow their use on the trailer as well as the trike, and possibly on the back of CrazyBike2's cargo pods.


So he stopped by and dropped htem off, and we updated each other on various projects and such. Turns out it was about $10 for *both* rather than each, so definitely worth it. :)
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They do operate off of either the A123 16s pack or the EIG 14s pack, not quite as brightly as when running off the 115VAC wall outlet they're meant to operate from, but still quite bright. These are on AC, with flash then without, while the room lights are all on in the kitchen (5 really bright white LED floodlights overhead plus a "40w" CCFL on the stove)
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No flash, just the room lights, camera directly above the light; it's so bright the camera stops down so the room light on cabinet isn't even seen
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without the room lights
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and then without room lights, just to see what the light "beam" would look like; it's not a round beam, but rather is a flat rectangle, which makes sense so that it covers a road area down below the traffic light poles. This must be what the clear plastic lensing assembly does. Anyway, the one on the right is from the light plugged into the wall AC power, and the one on the left is from the one running off the A123 pack (DC, about half the voltage).
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They won't operate off a 6s pack, though. I suspect the converter board inside is just a constant current source, rather than a traditional AC-DC, and simply rectifies and filters the incoming voltage to make a DC source to run the LEDs from.

I could probably cut the series sets into sections and wire them in parallel, so that I can run it on much lower voltage (like my regular lighting pack). I doubt I could easily modify the converter/current source, though, so I'd need to make another, preferably one with two levels of brightness, one for tailight and a brighter one fro braking.


Some pics of a possible placement:
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shows just how big they really are. :lol:
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More likely "ll place them higher up, but it'll have to wait till I have the rest of the trike/rack done, so I'll know where I can put them for testing.




This is the insides. Note that they are two different models, with several differences between them, but they are about the same brightness overall, and the current-supply board inside is the same.
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I think there are a few more LEDs in one vs the other, but not sure (didn't sit down and count them exactly; the one I can see the connections of appears tohave 36 or 37 series sets of 4 parallelled LEDs.
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The second one:
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Found an LED floating around inside one of them; resoldered it in where it apparently fell out:
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Got a little done on the trike; much of the time spent on it was taken up breaking down the signage for it's wood to make the new deck and box areas, and digging out some other bits and pieces from the sheds (wiring,etc).

The rightside motor isn't working, so have to figure out if it's wiring or controller or what. :(

The main thing done was to remove the old uprights from the rear of the trike, and replace them with new ones so that I can remove the rack when needed (for tall cargo, for instance). First step was to cut the rack off:
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I hadn't planned to do this for a while, but while working on the deck/wood layout, I test fitted the kennel in there, or rather tried to, and found that something I did during the most recent stuff removed the clearance on the right side top between the rack and the kennel, so it wouldn't go in there at all. :(

So the choices were to cut the rear right uprigth and splice in some tube to clear it, or do just a bit more work and make the rack removable. I then cut off the old uprights, cleaned up the corners of the lower deck frameb ack there, and used these gusseted signage holders
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to give more stiffness to the rack and trike frame while also allowing for pinning the rack in place at various heights.
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The smaller-cross-section tube that fits those will be inserted inside (and welded into) the rest of the rack upright tube, that's still part of the rack.
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Still have to cut either the rack's uprigths or more likely the trke's uprights to let the rack sit down just where the top of the kennel will be at it's lowest, then weld in the other piece.
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I will probably remove the pushbutton "latch" adjustment,
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and replace it with a locking pin or bolt, because it's likely that just the stamped-shape sheetmetal pushbutton would shear thru under loads on the rack, eventually if not immediately. However, I doubt I'll do this right now, since it will work without a load just fine and all I need the rack for ATM is to hold the lighting bar.


I also added the front crossbar to the cargo area, just behind the seat's back, to finalize the box area around/under the seats. I debated on where this would go, because having it farther back means the cargo area is smaller and the kennel sticks out the back farther, but the box area would be bigger, and I could use that area for a large battery compartment.

Putting it farther forward, where I ended up doing it, means there is almost no area behind the seat for box/compartment, but lets the kennel be far enough forward to be almost completely inside the cargo area, which means more of the weight will be over and in front of the wheels, too--very important with wiggly cargo. So it will be like this (bottom half only in this pic)
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I broke down a number of the salvaged signs, and test fit the pieces in various ways and places, and also some thinner wider stuff from some wooden boxes
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(which I dont like cuz they seem to be warped quite a bit; probably won't work well for the box area).
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These are uncut sign pieces, but a possible layout ofr the base of the box area on hte left side:
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if i were to have them extend back to the axle (as originally planned), but because of the kennel overlap,
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probalby they'll end up only coverng this much:


and the deck will go up further instead
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possible top for the box area; would be cutting hte rounded ends off.
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One size of the complete signs fits the rear "quarter panel" area perfectly, so will work for covering that and holding pics of dogs or whatever.
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A possible layout for the cargo area, though I don't have any covers on the fenders inside the deck area, and I'll need something; might go with sheet metal off the shelves tack welded in place, bent around the shape of the fender frame. Might use coroplast, or might use wood (but wood is too thick, so probably not).
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Also considering putting a wood deck on the rack; it'll reduce noise and add shade to the cargo area (helpful when it's a dog in the crate)
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If there's enough wood I'll make a cover for the front trangle too, and possibly the area between the horizontal "toptube" and "downtube" (not shown here)
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 20, 2016 2:01 am

It's not done, but it's rideable again, fully functional.
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I'd wanted to get it rideable before dark, and take Kirin up to where I work for her to meet everyone, to give it a good workout test ride, and then take her back home and go for a grocery run. But everything took longer than anticipated, partly cuz the cold made my joints hurt and my hands less capable than usual. Would've been easier if I'd been in the house, but I couldn't've gotten the trike inside and rolled it over on it's side, etc., that I needed to do to reach stuff on the bottom, so I just tried to stay in the direct sunlight with it where possible, and dressed warmly (but couldn't wear gloves and still manipulate anything).

I ended up working on it till well after 9pm just to get it going for a test ride around the block, and ran into a few little problems, easily fixed, and one big one that I don't know why it's happening, covered later in the post.


Most of the day was spent replacing all the wiring for the rear lights and the throttle/ebrake signalling from the bar controls to the controllers under the deck, and adding a switch for headlight high/low beam. (to replace the one I broke off quite some time ago).

I'd gathered up a fair bit of different types of cabling, but none that was long enough, had enough wires in it to connect all of the wires in a single cable, except for some that had wires so thin with only a couple of strands of conductor, that they might not carry the current for the incandescent turn signals without doubling or tripling up the wires (which would again make too few wires).

Then I remembered I had some old Firewire cables that will probably never be used, which would have a minimum of 6 conductors (including the shield), and at least two would be thick enough to handle the turn signal currents; probably all would, if the four data lines would be thick enough. Turns out all the wires are thick enough, and one cable even has 7 conductors.
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6 conductors would take care of the lighting, 7 would be better for the controller stuff. But unfortunately the cable long enough to reach the back lights had the 7 conductors, and the shorter one only had 6. Still works, but I lose the reversing button for the controllers, unless I run a single wire just for that. which I'll probalby do at some point, cuz I use the reverse often enough to be worth it.
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I still have to make a mount for the headlight switch, ATM it's just got it's nut jammed into the "mixte"-ish bars, next to the IGH shifter, and below the charging plug. Keeps it from being hit by my toes when getting on and off the trike (which is how the last one broke), and is reachable while riding. Didn't put it on hte bars like CB2 has because I didn't want to run 3 heavy gauge wires all the way up and then back down the tiller tube, to handle the car headlight's current.
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I had to replace every wire in the lighting bar, cuz there was melted insulation on a number of them, and I didn't trust any of the remaining ones. Also, the diodes in the tail/brake light arrangement were totally fried--the heatshrink around htem was destroyed, and the diodes themselves were either crumbled or split open. I had thought that the short that caused the fire was closer to the battery but apparently it was up there in that lighting bar area, given the damage there.

While I was at it, I changed the internal wiring on the LED strips of the taillights, so the diode assembly wont' be needed. The diodes were used as a series string to drop the voltage for the tailight, so it would be dimmer than if on full voltage. Then the brake switch just shorted across the diodes, to make the lights full brightness. Not the best way but it was easy enough, and worked with all the lights at the same time--all 3 paralleled LED strips inside the taillights, plus the HF "hitch cap" light.

The new way is to wire only the top and bottom LED strips in the taillights in parallel, powered directly from the lighting power, no dimming. Then the center strips, and the HF cap light, are wired between the brake lever switch (which provides lighting power V+ when engaged), and ground. This provides effectively less tailight illumination becasue the HF cap light is no longer part of the taillighting, but the brake lighting has MUCH more contrast than before, which is important.

Eventually I'll get the lights from the previous post mounted to it and tested, but for now this is sufficient.

The other stuff I got done was mostly finishing up the rack uprights started last night, and grinding down a number of weld seams that were more birdshit than usual. ;) and variuos sharp edges, etc. I still need to grind down a whole bunch of other stuff to make them flat for fitting boards/etc across, and also finish up full-seam-welds on a number of joints, but none of them are critical to the testing phase.


As referenced earlier, there was a problem with the rightside motor system (x5304), where it simply stopped working during the ride, after only a few dozen yards. The leftside motor worked normally. I even powered the system off and back on, no change. Since I had recharged the A123 pack overnight (to also let it balance, if needed), I expected it to operate normally after the rewiring and keep working, and that the wiring was the reason it didnt' work yesterday.

But now I find that it's simply that it isn't working below a certain voltage, though it *did* work below that before. I don't know where the threshold is, exactly, but seems to be around 52-53v (the CAv2 smallscreen I have on there has a few things wrong with it, one of which is that it reads at least a volt lower than actual; haven't determined exactly how far off it is yet). Unfortunately that is right in the "meat" of the A123 packs' capacity, so it will only operate the right motor system as it burns off the surface charge, and after that it doesn't work (only the leftside does).

This *did* work below that orignally, so I don't know what's changed on that controller. Something has, though. :/

Anyway, I need that motor to work, for acceleration especially with a load or dog in the kennel, so I pulled the EIG pack off CrazyBike2 and put it on the trike, and retested and the rightside motor system works fine with that, "proving" it is just the controller LVC kicking in to stop it from working. So I'll need to open up the controller and figure that problem out, eventually; for now I'll just use the EIG pack on it.


Side note: I was going to use the Luna 4p 18650 pack to test it, but it was only at 51v, and would not start charging when hooked up to the Satiator; apparently the same type of problem I had with that pack when it arrived here, and the same problem it's original owner had, too. I'll have to open it up again and see what the deal is, if it's way-too-low cells or just the BMS needing to be reset, or what.



Anyhow, I rode around the block a few times, testing lights, signals, motors, braking, etc. For some reason it feels like the EABS braking on the x5304 isn't as hard as it used to be, but it's been so many months now (half a year!) that I'm probably misremembering it. But other than that it seems normal; handles ok, etc. I think the tires need some air.


I still need to tilt the headlight up; the beam even on high is still too close to the trike and not far enough down the road (ever since changing to the bigger Shinko tires, IIRC).

Lots of stuff left to do before it's "done" (again), but at least I can start using it again now.



After the test rides, while it was parked, Yogi climbed in and laid down for a nap; it almost made me cry because Tiny used to do that all the time if I left the kennel door open, but Yogi never did that--he'd go in if I asked ihim to, but never on his own, and he'd just get right back out if I didn't close the door.
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Kirin, on the other hand, will get in if I insist, but she REALLY wants out and will try to get past me until I close the door (which makes her back up and sit in there, but she obviously doesn't want to stay in there). We'll have to get her used to the idea of getting in and out, so she's comfortable with it....

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 21, 2016 2:06 pm

worked fine for my work commute yesterday, will use it again today. Might rain tonight; good test for my rewiring. ;)

Wish I'd had time to move the canopy over from CrazyBike2, though. (and to make hand-guards like CB2 has) But I have motorcycle rain gear, so I won't drown.

Even if my wiring fails for some reason, I'll still be able to pedal home with the really low gearing, although it could take an hour or two to go the couple miles' distance that way (rather than 5-10 minutes).



The only issues found so far are:

--the mirrors (especially the left one) slowly move out of position from vibration; I need to tigthen them down internally, once I figure out how.

--Acceleration is a lot slower than I remembered; something seems to have changed inside the controllers (or at least inside the X5304's, which is the primary accelerator from a stop).

--Cycle Analyst that I repaired doesn't save trip data; it's always blanked next time I turn it on, but it *does* remember number of charge cycles, and I *think* the main odo count is updated. But I don't remember using the small screen CAs before, I think I've always had the large screen ones, and maybe those save data differently. I'll have to locate the manual on ebikes.ca for the old version and see what it says, before I dig into it for hardware issues.

--CA does have a definite problem reading voltage--it's at least a volt lower than reality. Amps / Ah seems almost right, pretty close, given what the Satiator reads out vs what's on the screen when I charge thru the CA. (Satiator might read 2.16Ah and CA might read 2.66Ah, as one example). I have a new shunt to be installed anyway, so will deal with the readout when I do that, whenever that happens.

--front rim brake needs readjusting and cleaning; doesn't have nearly as much braking as it used to. (doesn't help that with this weather my hands can't squeeze very hard). The Avid lever has adjustments on it, too, so I will play with those to get more braking for less grip. The EABS brakign on the x5304 (right side) is still as strong as I remembered it, so no problems actually stopping.

--tires need aired up a bit; will wait till after the rain over the next few days, becuase lower pressure gives me better grip, even if it's more power-intensive to move the trike around. I have plenty of power and battery capacity, so no worries on that part.

--The bolt-clamp method I used (pics later) to secure the outboard axle on the 9C (left) side didnt' work quite as well as I'd intended, but better than I expected, given the forces involved while riding (side loads). Won't be an issue with the MXUS once that's laced and installed, so will leave this as-is.
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Off to work for the day, hopefully will survive another holidaze-rush workday (this shopping season really sucks, especially this last week before xmas).
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 22, 2016 4:45 am

The rain on my ride home, though heavy, didn't disable antyhing, though it got into the flasher unit for my turn signals, and it kept clicking away even when not engaged to flash a left or right turn (though it couldn't flash the lights with the siwtch in the center-off position).

Performance was fine, though the front rim brake wouldn't fucntion at all for about two and a half seconds each time it was squeezed, then rapidly began to work to nearly normal strength, so it is good that I had the EABS motor braking I could use in bursts to slow down. Not sure what hte problem is with the front rim brake, as it worked much better than that before. Have to clean it and see if that helps, cuz it's gonna be raining for at least the next day, possibly two.


According to the CA, it used about 69wh/mile, which sounds lin line with what I remember from before. I forgot to note what it took to get to work :( but I did note the power to get home:

3.106Ah
2.306miles
69.7wh/mile
160.09wh
no regen %
53.8v resting
47.3vmin (keep in mind these are at least a volt lower than reality)
says amax was 249.8a but that must be a glitch, maybe water in teh ca connector to the shunt?
20.8mph peak
14.1mph avg
9m47s triptime

Note that the CA is definitely not keeping the trip stats but it *is* updating the total Ah and the total miles, though it does not update the total cycles (even though each recharge is more than 3Ah)

I'm at 1931 miles total odo on this, assumign all my notes/etc are correct and i started with the right number.

Typically my rides home are a tiny bit shorter, but most importantly have less stops (less traffic to contend with too), so they use a bit less power. But it would be fairly safe to double the above single-trip stats to get an approximation of each day's ride total.

The Satiator showed 5.93Ah total recharge, which seems resonable.







Lots of stupid drivers out there that think they should go FASTER in the rain, though, so there were crashes all over the place, some minor, some worse, but one upside down car with others crashed into it and emergency vehicles all around. :shock:

None of them endangered me, though, thankfully. (unlike on the ride *to* work where I was passed by two different city buses so closely that I was sucked toward them, and I could've reached out without leaning or stretching and touched either one of them, as they passed me at something between 45-50MPH in the 35MPH metroparkway curve). Regular traffic mostly went completley over in the other lane, but the buses didn't.

It's possible a regular cyclist could've been sucked under the bus, especially if they were inexperienced with the problem and didn't know how to fix it, or to ride farther from the curb before the bus began to pass so they would have room to move right during the pass to avoid the suction.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 24, 2016 11:50 pm

The CA is not acting quite right. Sometimes it half-remembers stats, like today it remembered about 1 mile out of the 2.4 for my trip to work, when I turned the trike back on for my trip home. But it remembered the whole 3.5Ah used to get me to work.

It also might be misreading current sometimes, because it showed almost 9Ah used for todays trip (meaning almost twice the capacity to get home as to get to work, even though there was *less* wind, and road conditions were otherwise the same).

I'll have to check things out for mechanical or electrical issues, but it didnt' feel any differnetly than normal.


Persistent issue with the righthand (x5304) controller where at some point below 50v (still not sure exactly, have to test with a variable PSU) the controller just won't engage the throttle, and if it was already running, it shuts down (no braking, just no further power to motor). Even if it's just voltage sag, it won't come back once it recovers; I have to power cycle it to get it back.

I did get the canopy moved over from CrazyBike2 today. I started the process yesterday and didn't have time to work otu some issues with the installation and fit:

--the seat for CB2 is taller at it's back than SBC's, by quite a bit, so if I did as planned and just clamped the canopy bottom rear crossbar to the front of the trike's rack, I'd have to hunch over to not have my head sticking up inside the canopy. :(

--the rear crossbar unit is made to hinge ina way that lets the canopy fold downward, since it used to be a folding cot.

--The front crossbar is in the way of the handlebars/mirrors, since the itller swings quite wide in some turns at slow speeds.

--The trunk opens forward, and would interfere with the canopy's rear uprights/crossbar, leaving it unable to open fully.


So, the solutions to those, in order above:

--welded on 1" square tubing vertically to the sides of the rack's front corners, about a foot long, to give a better mounting place for the sides of the rear crossbar of the canopy. Then the verticals of the rear crossbar were bolted to the outside of this, with the lower horizontal of the rear crossbar left unsecured to the front of those 1" tubes. Leverage from the bolts at the top of the verticals pushes down and back on that horizontal against the verticals of the rack, obviating need for bolts there at present (high winds would need better securing). The upper horizontal was removed, as it is not needed and interferes with mounting this way.

--I drilled holes in the rear vertical crossbar hinge mechanism and bolted thru it to the canopy's main frame, so that it does not hinge now. Because the aluminum tube the canopy is made from is very thin, I also used a hose clamp around this area.

--I removed the front crossbar, drilling out hte pin at the hing points; then I reused this part reversed as an extra support to help with the above, by clamping it to the rear lower horizontal, and hten ziptying (becuase I didn't have time to drilland bolt) thru it's hinge pin holes around the canopy main frame.

--I unbolted the trunk from the rack, and remounted it so the hinges are in back, and latches/opening are in front. THis also lets me access the trunk while seated on the trike, more or less, which I couldn't do before. I had not had it this way before because I was trying to make it a tiny bit more aero, so the narrower end was in back, since the front end of it was more or less even with my shoulders originally (a bit above). Dunno if it made any difference, but it has to be the other way now to be able to open it up (or move it farther back on the rack, and I'd rather not do that because the farther forward weight is, the better).



So with the setup as it is now, it worked ok, but I need to move the canopy up a couple more inches, as it still touches my head and is kinda annoying. Also, the side panels where the cloth hangs down are in the way when stopped, can't easily see all around me (while rdiing the winds fixes that).

Doesnt' seem to need front supports mounted this way; we'll see how it works long-term. I think I need to replace the rear aluminum verticals with steel ones, though, becuse the aluminum ones are so thin they are going to fatigue and fail, probably at the bolt holes. Most likely I will weld some square tubing into the steel brackets that hold the canopy frame, and remove the need for any of the hinge bolts/etc.

Pics later, because it started to pour down rain as soon as I was finishing up the above, then I had to go to work, and now it's dark out there and still raining, now that I'm home.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 25, 2016 12:30 am

amberwolf wrote:The CA is not acting quite right. Sometimes it half-remembers stats, like today it remembered about 1 mile out of the 2.4 for my trip to work, when I turned the trike back on for my trip home. But it remembered the whole 3.5Ah used to get me to work.

It also might be misreading current sometimes, because it showed almost 9Ah used for todays trip (meaning almost twice the capacity to get home as to get to work, even though there was *less* wind, and road conditions were otherwise the same).
Wierd, the Satiator only showed a bit more than 4.5Ah to recharge.... Something wierd is going on. I think I need to check out the battery pack itself (the EIG 14s) as well as the CA's settings.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 25, 2016 2:42 pm

Pics of the canopy stuff:

This is the side view, with the cover's side hanging down. If I was sitting there you would not be able to see my face from the sides (nor I you). :(
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With the side pulled up out of the way:
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This is the rear of it, from the left, showing hte vertical support (that used to be the center of the cot). The hinge mechanism is steel, the rest is thin aluminum tubing. The diagonal support used to be the front of the canopy when it was on CrazyBike2 (and was the end support of the cot). For now it's ziptied to the canopy frame at the top/front, and clamped around the horizontal tube at the rear, but will probably be clamped around the canopy frame once I can find more good hoseclamps (bolting thru the frame will weaken it at that point, and with no support at the front end will eventually probably snap it at the bolt hole from vibration and bumps).
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You can also see the latches / front of the trunk in the above pic; there's just enough clearance to easily get in there if I need to while seated.

This shows the hoseclamp around the hinge there, along with the bolt, to prevent the canopy from folding downward. This is the left rear corner at the top of teh canopy.
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You can already see the distortion of the tubing there from the clamping forces and stress from the bolt, and I've only ridden it about 5 miles. I may remove all the bolts/pins, hammer in a wooden dowel (old broom handle?) and redrill the holes thru that, to prevent the crushing/cracking/tearing. I could also rebuild it in steel but that'd be unnecessarily heavy, most likely. (and cause even more stresses from flopping the front end around in winds and bumps).


This is where the canopy uprigth presently bolts to the trike's new rack uprights. What I will do (maybe today) is to replace the aluminum tube with some of the same smaller-diameter square steel tubing used on the vertical rack rear supports, with the push-pin to latch in place, which will then fit inside the rack's uprights, and the button will lock into a hole I'll drill in there for the purpose. That will be much sturdier and unlikely to break from either wind or vibration.
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Presently the uprights are bolted to the canopy uprights like the below. The left side is directly bolted on, but the right had to have a spacer because the canopy is wider than the rack by a bit more than an inch. When I replace teh verticals I'll just bend the canopy inward at the rear, most likely, and weld in the new verticals slightly non-square to it, so they smoothly fit down into the rack verticals.
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The rack verticals themselves are not fully welded on yet, just a bit more than tackwelded, as I wasn't certain they were the final solution:
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The back of the rack with taillights/etc, and the space between the trunk's rear (hinge point) and those. This space is necessary to allow it to open fully; as it is when open itt's top still rests on the edge of the taillight housing, and those being plastic may damage them over time (the housings are 30 years old, at least, and one is already cracked and repaired). Might have to add a "stop" above them.
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The space also can fit other cargo there, to be tied down, if necessary.

The wheels kept rattling around, and being right behind my head, was annoying so I removed them. It's unlikely I'll ever use this in it's intended use anyway, but I'd previously left them on so that eventually I could develop a locking/release mechanism to hold the trunk on, and then I could take it off and roll it inside with me if I had to park outside and otherwise leave stuff in the trunk that wouldnt' do well in the hot sun, etc. without having to have a separate bag/etc to carry it in. I can't get the axles off, which are also a separate rattly item, without disassembling the trunk partway, so those are still there. I'd already tried a number of things to stop the wheel rattle, but none of htem lasted very long.
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The bolt thru the dropout space to secure the axle has actually worked way better than expected, and has not moved yet, despite the forces on it during turns from sideloading of the wheels. However, the wheel itself still moves around a bit because the bearings / covers are not a perfect fit anymore, from wear and age and repeated disassemblies, etc. :/ Doesnt' really matter since the MXUS3K will replace this motor anyway, as soon as I can redrill it's flange for the spokes presently in this wheel and lace this wheel to the MXUS.
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 25, 2016 3:06 pm

On to the battery issue. I pulled both packs (EIG and A123) and verified balance on both of them, before and after charging. Everything is within 0.01v; most cells are right where they should be and the same as each other. None of the cells that are different have any more sag than others do under a small load, nor more voltage rise than others during charging.

I opened both packs up and don't smell anything unusual, no problems I can see, need to do some more checking.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 26, 2016 3:23 pm

Doing more testing, and some rewiring of the battery-to-controller path today, details later, with pics.

Also linking here
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=85071
a thread for the eventual build of two Lebowski controllers to replace the generics on this trike. The generics had proven fairly reliable but there have been issues (like the sudden LVC change on the righthand controller, and that both came with hall sensor wires but neither will respond to halls regardless of setup or wiring, and only operate in sensorless mode, among other "little" problems).

So replacing them with something customizable, and that I will know well because I've built it myself (like I once did with a 4QD brushed controller on CrazyBike2's powerchair motor drivetrain), will let me fix issues I come up against, and set them up the way I need them to work. Plus they have torque throttles, and proportional braking controls, so that makes them way better for control than the generics right there. ;)

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 26, 2016 10:53 pm

First I started to do the canopy work described previously, but then I had a thought, that sometimes I might want to "retract" the canopy, something like this:
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I had wanted to do that on CB2 a few times on cool but sunny days, but it wasn't possible due to the front support, among other things. So I can simply flip it up and back, and ride with it "retracted" if I like. If winds are high enough to do this on it's own, but I still need the canopy, I can use a bungee cord or similar to tie down the front corners to the corners of the cargo area beside the seat.


Next up was to do some rewiring.
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Since I don't know exactly what the existing CA shunt's resistance is,
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and I think it has an intermittent wire in the speedometer, I went ahead and replaced it with a new shunt sent from Grin Tech a while back with the spokes I used to build the trike's wheels from. The new one is 1.00mohm, so I can be as sure as possible that the CA readings will be correct (assuming the old CAv2 smallscreen is working correctly...I know some of it is not).
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Then I changed the charging plug for the main pack from Anderson PP45s to the XLR panel mount type (from Grin Tech via Cvin), which includes a water-resistant cover.
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Presently it's just "jammed in" to the frame but I'll eventually make a panel between the frame tubes that all this stuff will actually mount on. This is "ideal" connector since the Satiator I use to charge with has the XLR as it's main connector. I've been using the XLR-to-pp45 adapter it comes with, but I've had some occasional little issues with it (the same I've had over the years with all the little PP45 types)
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I also finally added a switch to turn off the 12v lighting system, without unpluging the pack from it (which is what I've been doing since I built the trike). It's just below the headlight high/off/low toggle, next to the IGH shifter. Jammed in like the ohters, till I make the mounting panel.
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It's actually a 4pole 2throw On-On switch, but at present I just wired two poles in parallel, between the center common and one On side. If I ever get a DC-DC converter to replace the lighting pack I might be able to use it to switch between them for testing purposes before removing hte lighting pack entirely. For now, it's just an on-off for the trike's lighting system.

This is the whole frame area there, where I"ll eventually make a panel for them all:
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No noticeable difference in operation before and after the rewiring, as far as motor power goes, but huge difference in CA operation.

Note that prior to this work, I discovered I had not set the CA's old shunt value correctly, so the wh/mile of around 70 I'd gotten on average for my work commutes was not correct, based on what I had tested the old shunt (via readout comparisons) to be, so I reset it to the 1.3mohm I'd approximated the old shunt to be, and got more like 100-110wh/mile, which seemed way too high. This is part of why I wanted to change the shunt out, because whatever I did the readings seemed to be wrong.

I re-aired up the tires; the rears were down to about 25psi (should be 35), and the front down to 21psi (should be 40-45).

After that, the wh/mile with the old shunt dropped to about 90wh/mile, but this is still wrong, or seems so; even for a short ride around my neighborhood with a stop/start every few hundred feet.


With the new shunt, I get about 45wh/mile in the same trip, which seems reasonable, though a bit lower than I expected. I'll have to see what it shows on my work trip tomorrow.


Note that I believe *all* the wh and watt readings will be low, becuase the volt reading on the CAv2ss is about 0.6v-0.7v lower than actual. I don't know if there's a way to adjust that in the CA itself, or in it's settings; not sure why it reads low in the first place. (but this is one of two damaged ones I repaired, and it has a couple of other issues, like not always saving all of the trip data on shutdown (it does save some of it; the main odo updates ok, as do the number of cycles).


I then played around with the controllers a bit. I still have the 3speed switch on the left side controller, and the 3speed toggle button on the right one. Neither is wired up to the bars anymore, but just tied up down at the controllers under the cargo deck. So I have to stop the trike, get off, and lay down and reach under the trike to change the settings for each experiment (not worth rewiring it just for this test).

I found in previous tests with this that the current pulled does change, up to a max of someting liek 33-35A per controller. But in today's test, the left controller varied from 15A at lowest setting, to 25A on middle (unswitched) setting, to 32A on the highest. The right controller did not vary at all, though it has LEDs to show the state is changing. It stayed at 32A peak current on each setting.

So something has definitely changed inside that controlller, though I don't know how or what--the above issue, plus the one where it cuts out and requires power cycling once voltage sags below a certain point (a lower point than it once did). I forgot what the third issue was now. :/

At least it still works.


I'd intended to leave the A123 pack off the trike, and use just the EIG, to save the almost 30lbs the A123 weighs, as I shoudln't need it for my short work commutes.

However, because I need that rightside motor for acceleration (and to climb a short shallow hill as I cross the canals to exit Metrocenter on the way home), and I might not be able to charge (someone could unplug the charger from wall or trike, on purpose or by accident) at work, and wouldnt' be able to charge on trips to the store, I need to carry both packs. I can then plug in the A123 once the EIG pack has dropped from it's full voltage down to about 54v, which is about where the A123 rests after balancing, to minimize the voltage sag under load.


And now for a puppy-break, after which we'll return with more technical stuff. ;)

Yogi and Kirin were a bit upset that I didn't take them wiht me on the test rides:
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.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by dingoEsride » Dec 28, 2016 5:35 am

amberwolf wrote:Then I remembered I had some old Firewire cables that will probably never be used
This made me remember I had a reel of data or security cabling left over on a construction site that have 6 strands of at least the same gauge wire that I will use for for regen on my dog trike, a bit easier, tidier than the car speaker wire what I would've used.
Good to see you got her rolling again, I bet the dogs are happy too and those lights will get some attention, looks something like bug eyes
ride like the wind

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 28, 2016 1:28 pm

Some data on the ride home; I didn't save the data on the way there because something happened with the speedo where it thought I had gone a few dozen miles (rather than the 2.4 I really did). For some stupid reason, I had thought the speedo connection problem was in the cable to the shunt, but that's impossible because there's no speedo wiring there. All that is is just the shunt +/-, and battery +/-. Speedo is separate to the front wheel. Dunno why I thought it would make any difference when I swapped out the shunt. :roll:

Anywya, so the speedo intermittent issue is still there, and I get an occasional 600+MPH reading, or completely zero for a long period. Sometimes moving the sensor end closer to the magnet makes a difference, (rotating it around the fork leg), so I will experiment with different positioning up and down the leg relative to the magnet on the wheel, and see if that helps. If not, it could just be a bad reed switch. I have others somewhere to swap out to test this. I already checked the wire connections with nothing found.


So the power data, assuming I'm not getting any really wierd glitches due to the speedo issue, shows the trike actually doesn't use nearly as much power as previously shown, and I'm not sure if I can trust the new readings either.

Trip home results last night, using the A123 pack paralleled with the EIG:
(keep in mind volt readings are low by about 0.6-0.7v)
53.2v rest
1.929Ah
2.336miles
101.9wh
44.3wh/mile
regen 0.2%
regen ah 0.0038ah
Amin -18.7A
Amax 72.22A
Vmin 49.6V
Maxspeed 636. MPH :lol:
AvgS 15.3mph
triptime 9m9s
total miles since original build 1948

Leaving the Satiator charging both packs connected in parallel, with the Satiator plugged into the A123's charge port (the discharge port of the A123 connected to the EIG's only port), overnight, got 4.626Ah, which sounds right given the Ah lost to the balancing stuff in the BMS, plus the extra the trip to work would take vs the trip home (always takes a bit more going there; more hard accelerations to get away from traffic I guess).


Now the significantly lower power usage *could* be a combination of the new shunt (known value, better calibration) plus the re-airing up of the tires to much higher pressures than they had been, which would be reasonable.

I need to dig out my WattsUP and put it in series and see what I get with that, at the same time as the CA.

None of the power readings previously taken can be considered "known good", though there were times I used the WU like that when first testing stuff on the trike, that might be considered closer to known-good. I'll have to dig thru the thread and find them to compare.


dingoEsride wrote:This made me remember I had a reel of data or security cabling left over on a construction site that have 6 strands of at least the same gauge wire that I will use for for regen on my dog trike, a bit easier, tidier than the car speaker wire what I would've used.
Just make sure it is stranded not solid wire. If it's solid it may fracture and break from vibration fairly quickly, mostly at the connection points, but anywhere it is bent repeatedly. If you tie it down securely along it's entire length it might be better, but if it has to go from the handlebars to the rest of the bike, you'll need an unsecured loop to be able to turn the bars; this might fracture eventually at one of the ends where it starts being secured again.

Good to see you got her rolling again, I bet the dogs are happy too and those lights will get some attention, looks something like bug eyes
They do, don't they? :)

Dogs arent' happy about it yet; Yogi is now like Tiny was: disappointed every time I go to the trike and he doesn't get to get in and go for a ride in it. It's really strange--he didn't like getting in there (had to be encouraged every time) but Tiny loved it, and now he loves it and wants to just climb in there....Maybe it stirs his memories of Tiny (like it does mine)?

Kirin still doesnt' want anything to do with gettng in there, like Yogi was when we started out doing that, but I think she'll adapt. She has finally adapted to going in and out of the doggie-window-door with the flap down (not tied up out of the way), without any encouragement at all, on her own, starting on Christmas. Only took her like two or three weeks. :lol:

So far all the planned trips with them haven't been able to happen because the things I needed to finish didn't get done in time to leave time for the trip. :(

Now I'm working all this week thru almost all of next, before I get another day off. (holidaze season sucks) Then we'll get to try it out, hopefully.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 29, 2016 12:58 am

The CA saved the whole work commute today without issue. I'm still not sure why sometimes it saves part of the data, and sometimes all of it.

4.381 miles total trip
20.7mph peak (better than 600+ :lol:)
14.7MPH Avg
17m49s total trip time.
4.324Ah
0.3%regen
0.0142Ah regen
-21.9A min
72.93A max
52.5wh/mile
227.82wh
58.0v start
53.9v rest
49.7v min

If this is accurate, then as long as the tires are inflated, it's not bad for power usage, not nearly as bad as I'd figured.


Keeping the two packs paralleled it doesnt' sag down far enough to trigger the righthand controller's LVC. I guess that means it's time for a new battery if I want to pull big power from it without carrying almost 50lbs of battery; these are a bit on the older side now, and while the EIG still has about it's full capacity, it definitely sags more than it did originally.

But I did confirm an issue I suspected, which is that it ALSO disables itself for an "overspeed" condition, or perhaps it's the sudden change in speed, when I am turning onto the street from a driveway in one spot, and there are big "waves" in the asphalt, so the righthand tire bounces and spins in the air, then touches and grabs, and the motor cuts out. I can't tell if it cuts before or at the instant of the grab. The same thing happens on another righthand turn on my way home, turning from metro parkway onto the street southward, where again there's a lot of big asphalt waves/pits and the trike bounces around.

If I manage to cut power to that wheel before it bounces, then it doesnt' have a problem with cutout.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by Chalo » Dec 29, 2016 2:40 pm

amberwolf wrote:it ALSO disables itself for an "overspeed" condition, or perhaps it's the sudden change in speed, when I am turning onto the street from a driveway in one spot, and there are big "waves" in the asphalt, so the righthand tire bounces and spins in the air, then touches and grabs, and the motor cuts out.
Those conditions seem like they might result in a transient current spike in excess of the battery's protection threshold.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 30, 2016 1:21 am

It's definitely not that; it's the rightside controller/motor system.

The EIG pack has no BMS, and it does it with just that pack, or when paralleled with the A123 pack (that does have a BMS).

The leftside motor continues to work perfectly the entire time (separate throttles, one on each handlebar).

The current spike could still be triggering a cutoff inside the rightside system. It's not a hard cutoff (like the controller LVC is), as it doesnt' require powercycling the system to fix, just has to come to a complete stop before it will reset.

I haven't had it cut out in any of the flat-ground intersections where it bounces up in the air and then lands still spinning, only on those two right turns at the start of the uphill (the bridge over the canal). At least, so far.

It's not something that ever happened before, so it's one more "new problem" with the controller on the right side (in addition to the now-higher LVC). I'm tempted to open up the case and check all the wiring and PCB traces for corrosion or other problems, but don't want to do it without having a backup controller first.

At some point in the future I'll be building a pair of Lebowski controllers, but I have to gather up all the parts first. PCBs are on their way from Whereswally606, and I probably have some of the parts (probably most of the passive ones). Dunno how long it will take to get the rest of the parts, but once I do I can begin building them, then setting them up and testing them with these motors.

But until then, I'd rather just leave well-enough alone, as long as the controller still works. :)

(if I have to I could pull one of the ones off CrazyBike2, but I'd rather not do that if I don't have to. I have considered it a number of times, swapping the controllers between the two, so the higher powered ones (40A) are on SBC, and the lower powered ones (30A-ish) are on CB2, because of the weight of the one vs the other, but if stuff went wrong in the swap I could be left with *no* working transportation....so i have never attempted it).

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 30, 2016 2:46 am

Riding home tonight, was followed for a while by a small SUV; they wanted to stop and take pics and tell me they really liked the trike (one fo them called it a car, the other a bike). People don't seem to realize that a car following a bike (or whatever) late at night might seem a bit spooky....

At least they didn't perform any stupid maneuvers to try to get me to stop, but followed me down a street, then thru a parking lot. I waited until I was at the exit to the lot to stop, where I could just zoom out into the street and away, just in case they weren't just wanting to stop for pics/etc.

In other encounters, I've had a couple of people that really just wanted to ask a question or take a pic, but they were really really idiotic about it, swerving all around and trying to cut me off, or swinging out into opposing traffic lanes (with no traffic at that instant, but still dumb), and essentiallly forcing me to do whatever I could (mostly going where cars can't) to evade them so I wouldn't be included in whatever collisions they might cause.



I forgot to post yesterday that the Tiny avatar I had strapped to the tiller behind the headlight came loose on the way to work, and fell in the road. Thankfully it happened as I entered a left turn lane in the median to cross Dunlap, so I was able to stop and pick it up. But it's a mystery how it could have fallen, because all of the zipties I had around tail and feet holding it in place are all still there and tight.

It's almost as if either the trike or the avatar phased out of each other's reality for a moment, and the avatar fell thru the trike...even though that's impossible. It was very strange. I still havent' remounted it (don't have any more zipties, and can't get the avatar back under the existing ones as they are too tight for that).

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Dec 31, 2016 3:52 am

Yesterday I forgot to clear the day before's data from the CA first, but it's still in the same ballpark.
8.894miles total trip
20.7mph peak
14.3MPH Avg
37m16s total trip time.
9.278Ah
.2%regen
.0267Ah regen
-21A min
76.3A max
55.7wh/mile
490.79wh
58v start
53.8v rest
30.2v min (wierd artifact of CA shutdown, as packs never sagged that low)




Then here is today's data:
4.668miles total trip
328.mph peak :( problem is back
14.3MPH Avg
19m29s total trip time.
4.308Ah
.1%regen
.007Ah regen
73.69A min
-13.6A max
49.3wh/mile
230.02wh
58v start
54v rest
49.8v min

ride home in the rain/really wet puddly roads was fun, got to drift around a lot of corners, and even between lanes. Way more fun on a trike than on a bike (where I might've crashed trying to ride the same way :lol:).

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Jan 01, 2017 1:03 pm

Is 100% chance of rain thru tonight, has been raining pretty much all day so far so everything is a lake and rivers out there in my area, so should make for an interesting ride. With luck all the partiers will still be conked out somewhere so the roads will be deserted at least for my ride to work in a few minutes. (was surprised there was not more traffic, especially of the stupid variety, last night on my way home, but it was still early when i left about 5pm, and still a bit light out side though after sunset).
Last edited by amberwolf on Jan 02, 2017 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf & Dogman's CargoTrike & DogCar

Post by amberwolf » Jan 02, 2017 12:21 am

Got a bit lucky and rain went down from torrential to drizzle and mist long enough for me to get home, park in the shed, and get the dogs out for potties, then get inside, before it started again.

This was good especially because it probably contributed to saving my life, although it also might've been the cause of it being in danger in the first place. :/

I really ought to permanently mount a video camera on my trike (and bike) to record stuff like this:


I got to use a maneuver I can probably only do easily on wet roads, to change lanes via sliding the back end into it first (by just a bit), kinda countersteering the trike with the front wheel first, then braking and accelerating with each rear wheel in turn to get me a lane change in about a second instead of several.... Is a bit on the fun side but is also scary, because the only normal reason to do such a maneuver is when someone else does something really stupid, and is about to crash into me and is leaving such a lane change as the only option.

I've used a variation on the maneuver to "slide" into the left turn lanes in the medians on Dunlap and Peoria and 35th Ave, just for fun, but it doesn't get me into the lane much faster than normal, because the road is stickier under teh conditions I'd done it before, mostly. I couldn't do this on anything like the Delta Tripper--it'd just flip over and roll and crash. SB Cruiser, however, handles totally differently, and much better; it's not a "car-o-batics" type of vehicle, though.


I was heading home from work, going up the bridge over the canal (southbound, only one lane, then there's the center lane that's doubleyellow at that point, and a leftturn for the northbound before that, then two-way left (yellow-dashed) after that, just at the top of the hiil).

Car is zooming up the hill from the otherside, I can see his headlights making the rain light up before I can see him, and I can hear his roaring engine, and squealing brakes of at least two or three different kinds, and a bunch of horns. I expect that he's in one of the two northbound lanes, or maybe the center lane, but wasn't expecting him to be in *my* (southbound) lane...and neither was he, because he'd lost control in the wet (probably where the bridge itself begins, and the asphalt changes to concrete with some asphalt and some concrete spots) since he was speeding too fast (I'd guess he was still going well over 40MPH when I first saw him as I began to clear the hill) and was now partly sideways sliding up the hill in my lane (and that of cars behind me).

As I heard horns and brakes behind me, I just did the maneuver without thinking; and the wet road helped me get out of the car's way just as he passed my position. If I had not done it, I would definitely have been hit, and I would guess he was still at 30MPH+ by the time he passed me, and beginning to straighten out again. I was at just under 19MPH the last time I looked at the speedo a second or so before this, so I don't know how survivable the collision would have been, as a head-on at perhaps 50MPH relative speed.

But I was just clear of him, myself in the center lane still heading south and him mostly in the southbound lane, and then he zoomed back into the northbound lanes after he'd passed me and just before he would've collided with the other southbound traffic behind me that was still braking but not stopped yet, and he was accelerating again.

All I could see was that it was a white or light-colored car; I'm not sure what kind or even if it was 2 or 4 door, but it seemed short enough to be a 2-door. Beyond that, and that it had blue-white superbright headlights, and what might be a souped-up engine (don't know enough about that sort of thing to be sure), I couldn't say much.


But I made it home safely, even if I might ought to wash my underwear. ;)

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