The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by RTIII » Mar 03, 2018 4:20 pm

What I REALLY want is instant-start from torque only, meaning it begins providing power as soon as there is torque on the cranks (maybe require a certain minimum so just having my feet on there doesnt' do it), and not require any rotation first.
Hmmm... What about solving the "instant start PAS" requirement, that seems to require some measured rotation, by having some sort of extra magnet mechanically go past the sensor? ...I'm guessing from your other comments you're not excited about this because it's not automatic. ...How does it get the rotation information, from the PAS / torque sensor assembly or from a magnet mounted on a wheel?

Seems to me the dual requirement of torque plus rotation is likely a deal-breaker for you if the extra-magnet doesn't do it for you. Oh! WHAT ABOUT... if you used the _release_ of an e-brake handle to trip a dirt cheap relay that could act as a short-lived electro-magnet next to the speed sensor? The only trick is keeping the pulse time short lived so it wasn't going off but once and briefly... Not entirely sure how you'd do that but maybe this gets you thinking. Or, what about putting a magnet on ever spoke?

... BTW, I'm about to wire up a dual-use of my e-brake switches. They're officially for cutting out the electric motor, but I'm going to use them for that plus as a brake-light signal source. This, for my Tongsheng TSDZ2 unit which, by the way, has PAS torque sensing ... I don't really recall if it wants to leap forward if you just put torque on the pedals, but it might. I'll test it later - raining heavily right now.

Note too that I love the changes you've been making overall - the trike looks a hell of a lot better of late, and I think the fenders are cool.

As for the new battery arangement, you already know a lot of your requirements; I'd focus on keeping the leads short, the connection ends all very close together with one larger compartment underneath, accessed from the back, with highly sloped sheet metal on the front face for impact protection (with air vent louvers if available) and then separate enclosures within the larger enclosure. This will help keep water out but still have the benefit of isolation, and yet provide for the monitoring access that you discussed. It can also be done in a light-weight way. I'm thinking of dead computer equipment as your source materials - dirt cheap to free and maybe having bracketry that could be helpful. ...Those batteries look like they'd fit in larger disk drive bays, perhaps?

Oh, before I sign off for the moment, why is it again you want the new front fork? And, what's with the need for a 20 MPH speed limiting feature? Can't you limit it yourself without need for the controller to enforce it?

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by wturber » Mar 03, 2018 5:07 pm

RTIII wrote:
Mar 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Oh, before I sign off for the moment, why is it again you want the new front fork? And, what's with the need for a 20 MPH speed limiting feature? Can't you limit it yourself without need for the controller to enforce it?
He's legally an electric bike if he goes 20 mph or less in Arizona. His trike is an attention getter and it accelerates quickly so would be easy to shoot over 20 mph. So building in the limit ensures he's operating legally.
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by eCue » Mar 03, 2018 5:10 pm

amberwolf wrote:
Mar 03, 2018 1:05 pm
Of course the speed limiting is on, it says so in the post above; it's there to keep from exceeding 20MPH.

But that isnt' power limiting, which is a separate set of things, if you read the CA manual. You can read the post above for my settings of that.

The PAS sensor is setup for TDCM settings, using hte TDCM option in the menu, which sets them correctly by default.
if your interested in trying you can simple remove the speed limit and try the power output again.Its real easy to test.
I noticed with my controller that a amp limit of 11A restricts the top speed to 30k , 11A @ 54v is 594 watts the bike does not need 595w to maintain 39K let alone 30k. My guess is they sync the lowest amp setting to function at a reduced speed output as well.
So it may well be reversed in your circumstance and its your settings that are causing the problem not the wiring . A 20 mph speed limit is a granny setting they may well of reduced acceleration to match it
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 04, 2018 3:23 am

RTIII wrote:
Mar 03, 2018 4:20 pm
Hmmm... What about solving the "instant start PAS" requirement, that seems to require some measured rotation, by having some sort of extra magnet mechanically go past the sensor? ...I'm guessing from your other comments you're not excited about this because it's not automatic.
If it isn't completely pedal controlled, there's no point, because if I have to use my hands at all, then I'd just use the throttles, and just ghost pedal, or whatever--that would be MUCH simpler and more reliable than the several potential points of failure including TorquePAS sensor, CA, settings, extra interconnecting wiring, etc.

The main advantage to the PAS version is that I can have hands-free operation, for those times my hands just randomly go numb (it's not a bike thing, it's a nerve thing and just happens sometimes for no predictable cause/timing/conditions/etc. Sometimes it's just one hand, sometimes it's both; I can still move my hands then but I can't feel them so unless I watch what I'm doing I can't tell what that is for certain, and on the road it's dangerous to watch my hands and not the road/etc. How long they stay numb is also random, usually it's pretty short, but it can last for minutes or an hour or more).

It also allows me to be legal if they should ever pass an update to the law here that requires it (presently it doesn't limit anything except speed to <20MPH).

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...How does it get the rotation information, from the PAS / torque sensor assembly or from a magnet mounted on a wheel?
The TDCM sensor has all of it integrated. There's a manual for it on the ebikes.ca product pages, though it's not clearly explanatory as there are several versions.

Basically the torque sensor outputs a voltage range based on the torque input, which is detected via tension on the chain vs the cranks. It does detect both cranks (others like THUN only detect the left crank), but it sees two to three times higher torque on the left than the right, probably just how the sensor is placed inside vs the twisting of the crankshaft, etc. In my case this is actually good, because my left leg is perhaps half as capable as my right (before the hurting starts seriously), so it probably comes out even.

Then it has a 12-pole "regular" PAS sensor that outputs pulses the CA counts, and between the two kinds of sensor it can also detect the direction of rotation.

A sensor with a higher number of poles (the CA supports up to 24) would have a faster response, but would still require a certain amount of rotation of pedals to get started--and the point of the motors is to not require me to hurt my joints further by pedalling from a stop with no assist--the very hardest part of the job.



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Seems to me the dual requirement of torque plus rotation is likely a deal-breaker for you if the extra-magnet doesn't do it for you. Oh! WHAT ABOUT... if you used the _release_ of an e-brake handle to trip a dirt cheap relay that could act as a short-lived electro-magnet next to the speed sensor? The only trick is keeping the pulse time short lived so it wasn't going off but once and briefly... Not entirely sure how you'd do that but maybe this gets you thinking. Or, what about putting a magnet on ever spoke?
Anything that requires my hands negates the usefulness of PAS at all.

Magnets on spokes or anything else that requires any movement of the trike is useless, because it means I have to get the trike started moving by pedal power alone, which means hurting myself (and risking injury with really heavy loads or on a slope) to get it started. That's the whole point of the motors, so I don't have to do that.

(I have pretty low gearing, that in 1st goes about 1mph at about 60 crank rpm, but for me, that's not enough to do this by myself regularly; it's only meant as an emergency thing in case of complete power system failure. The unloaded trike I can pedal on the flats in lowest gear, for a while, but starting it from a stop hurts my knees a bit even then, and doing that over and over every commute would leave me exhausted, and possibly unable to walk around at work all day (even with my cane). I can't imagine trying to do it with a heavy load).


At present the only thing I've figured out that's practical is to have an op-amp or transistor circuit external to the CA that takes the analog torque sensor output voltage change, and converts taht into a throttle signal to input into the CA. This can be in parallel to having the sensor input into the PAS input of the CA, and can have some sort of sensor (speed, etc) that shuts it off once the trike is moving enough for the CA to begin applying a throttle signal based on the actual TorquePAS / rotation of the cranks.

This is a relatively simple circuit I can throw together with parts I probably already have in junk around here (old audio stuff, for instance). But I'm hoping there's a solution within the CA itself (I just don't think there is, unless Grin has a custom / beta version that does this).


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... BTW, I'm about to wire up a dual-use of my e-brake switches. They're officially for cutting out the electric motor, but I'm going to use them for that plus as a brake-light signal source.
I use a separate ebrake lever for the brake lights, but you can easily use a 5v relay or a simple open-collector transistor switching circuit to have them also switch brake lights that run on a different voltage. I used to do that on DayGlo Avenger, which only had a front brake and rear brake lever for the mechanical rim brakes, and the ebrake switch for geared (and later DD w/regen) motor cutoff.

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Note too that I love the changes you've been making overall - the trike looks a hell of a lot better of late, and I think the fenders are cool.
The idea is to make it look pretty nice, as kind of an ebike (etrike) ambassador since it gets so much attention wherever I go. The disadvantage is it can make it more of a theft target, but completely custom and unique as it is, it would be easy to spot if it was stolen and ridden anywhere--and pointless to steal just to cut up for parts.

Also, the nicer it looks, the less I get the "hey it's a homeless guy on a bike" thing from some people, and the more respect I get on the roads. (at least, from those that don't hate everything that isn't them cuz you MIGHT make them take a few seconds longer to get somewhere).


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As for the new battery arangement, you already know a lot of your requirements; I'd focus on keeping the leads short, the connection ends all very close together with one larger compartment underneath, accessed from the back, with highly sloped sheet metal on the front face for impact protection (with air vent louvers if available) and then separate enclosures within the larger enclosure. This will help keep water out but still have the benefit of isolation, and yet provide for the monitoring access that you discussed. It can also be done in a light-weight way. I'm thinking of dead computer equipment as your source materials - dirt cheap to free and maybe having bracketry that could be helpful. ...Those batteries look like they'd fit in larger disk drive bays, perhaps?
They might fit in 5.25" drive bays, but computer cases are far too large / deep to mount under the trike. The bays themselves are detachable on some cases but they're not long enough by themselves to cover the cells or secure them. So...no reason to use the bays.

I have a couple of old tower cases that are probably heavy enough gauge steel to bend/cut/weld into tough cases for the cells/modules. But I also have such steel from retail fixtures (couple of 4-5 foot long 2-3 foot wide pieces already in red), and from at least one old window A/C unit, etc. So not really any shortage of that.

Regarding design...because of hte layout under the trike it isn't flat enough to just bolt on a simple box to hold it all; the box has to fit around things in a way that still leaves me access to those things (chain, etc) without removing the box.

I'm not really worried about impacts--if there's anything that would hit the cell boxes, they'd hit other things on the trike too, and break other stuff. I just avoid anything that might remotely cause such damage. If there's debris like that on the road I can't avoid, well, it's just as likely to take stuff out with or without protection. ;)



It's more complex to make separate boxes for the modules to go in differnet areas, but it enables me to use two of the deeper areas I couldn't put them in otherwise, just behind the seatbox, forward of the transfer axle. Two boxes for eight cells each there, and a third box for 12 more (28 total) (or 16 more if I include the lighting 4s1p pack in there) behind those on the other side of the transfer axle. It is also more separation of cells in case of fire, which while extremely unlikely isn't ever impossible. And it makes swapout of entire modules easier if I have to do it, cuz the'll be smaller and lighter than the almost 40-pound block I have in teh seatbox at present.



Cell monitoring isn't really necessary, just something I would really like to have available. I pretty much only do it randomly just in the interests of "science" ;) to post up here on ES, as the batteries age. I've had nearly no problems with these cells, and am not really worried about their balance.



Oh, before I sign off for the moment, why is it again you want the new front fork?
There's a few reasons.

--Experiment with a geared hubmotor powerful enough to actually be able to move the trike in a large (26") wheel. Cant' do that on the rear; they're 20" (probably actually 22" with the tires I've got on there), and I'm pretty sure it'd work back there in the smaller diameter wheels. But I only have rear geared hubs in the "1000w" range. (one Ezee v1, one Fusin lastmodel). So neither one can fit in any front fork I already have. I'd have to build one to do that, which I'd been planning to do for additional other reasons (I'll go into that later).

The idea of the motor is as a backup, and extra power I wouldn't be using under normal circumstances, but could use for extra start-from-a-stop power with heavy loads like a trailer full of stuff. If it works on the trike, it'd also work on the trailer itself. (but I'd have to rebuild the trailer frame to put a rear-geared hub on there; it's made for narrower front wheels).


-- The suspension fork (Suntour XCV) has wiggle between the stanchions and lowers during braking, which can contribute to loss of traction and create a skid where there wouldn't be one otherwise. This fatbike fork is a non-suspension fork, so it won't have that wiggle. Personally I prefer having the suspension, but I'd give that up for safer braking (especially with a load under adverse conditions).



And, what's with the need for a 20 MPH speed limiting feature? Can't you limit it yourself without need for the controller to enforce it?

Sure--I do it all the time. In fact, years back I decided specifically against having any limiting hardware and doing it myself just so that I wouldn't ever be limited in a situation that required sudden acceleration past that limit (rare, but potentially fatal if I can't).

But as I think I said in the posts about that, it means putting my attention on the speedo and not on the road, and having to do that in (stupid) traffic in a shopping mall area (my commute is mostly thru a big one) adds just that much more risk to every trip. Mostly, I know how fast I am by the sound of hte motors, but as the load changes when I am on some of the very very slight downslopes of the road, the sound can seem the same when in fact I'm a MPH or two above the 20MPH limit.

(if I was in a car, just about no LEO would bother about that, if it was a road speed limit. But this isn't a road speed limit, it's in the definition of what a bicycle is and isn't, and some LEOs can be very hard about this--not usually here in Phoenix or even in the valley, but in Tucson it's been common enough, and there's nothing to stop anyone from choosing to enforce the law at any moment anywhere).


I'll still need the ability to override that limit in an emergency (when a collision is imminent if I do not accelerate out of the way, and braking will not prevent it), probably with a button that sits right at the WOT position of the throttles, so I can push it with either (or both) thumbs, and bypass the CA (this could be almost as simple as shorting across the CA's throttle input and output pins...though not quite).

I used that ability to accelerate out of the way twice today on the way to work. If I hadn't bypassed the CA completely before I reached the first one (because it still limits power at startup even though it should not be), I'd've been hit by someone changing lanes right into me, with traffic right behind me that I'd be hit by if I slammed on my brakes. The second one was someone pulling out of a driveway as I was *just* about to pass it, again with traffic right behind me, and to my left, so nowhere to go but forward.

Normally it's only once every so often, maybe every few weeks or months, or even less often. I don't need it much, or for more than a second in most cases, two or three at the most that I recall, but if I didn't have it, I'd've been hit or rammed off the road by the side of a truck or car (or bus) many times over.

Or I'd just have to ride on the sidewalks everywhere, and be stuck at walking speed at best for most of my commute, assuming I could even get past pedestrians / etc going the other way. (probably not, with the trike, and definitely not with the trailer--Yogi's Mk IV is too wide to even stay on many sidewalks--the wheels would be at both edges, and even the Mk III is basically just as wide as the trike). And assuming some car or truck didnt' just hit me as they go in and out of driveways without looking. (which is my primary reason for never using any sidewalks unless I have no other safe choice, and riding on the roads in the first place).

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 04, 2018 3:30 am

Looks like I can at least get better resolution / faster PAS rotation response by adding an independent 24-magnet PAS sensor in place of the TDCM's rotation sensor output (but leaving it to use the torque sensor of the TDCM).
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1362221

But as I figured, no way inside the CA to use torque-only to startup from a stop. So I *will* have to design and build a circuit to use the torque output as a throttle control for startup. :(

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Mar 04, 2018 1:34 pm

You say that Ezeee v1 motor has no mount for rotors, maybe you can happen into a hub motor that does or a disk front hub to lace on if you don’t end up using a motor on the front. Those black forks look really solid and a disk brake might really up your game braking quite a bit. A lot of MTB guys pull mechanical disk calipers off so they can go to hydros and have them sitting around so you could probably horsetrade for some if you ask around.
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 04, 2018 6:29 pm

(pardon the redundancy in parts of this post, I've been typing and saving drafts as I had time to sit down between doing stuff today).
Raisedeyebrows wrote:
Mar 04, 2018 1:34 pm
You say that Ezeee v1 motor has no mount for rotors, maybe you can happen into a hub motor that does or a disk front hub to lace on if you don’t end up using a motor on the front.
I have disc front hubs/wheels; was using one previous to the one I have on there now, but the disc brakes I have are really crappy, and useless. The rim brakes can already make the wheel skid, so they're much better than any discs I've got.

But a disc front hub wouldnt' work on the fatbike fork (unless it's a fatbike hub), without swapping for a rear axle and spacers. I probably have a rear disc hub too, but haven't used one so don't know where it might be if I do.

The only reason to use the fatbike fork is for the rear motor experiment, and the only reason to use a rear motor is cuz I have two of those in the power level I'm after, and don't have any fronts in the power I'm after. ;)

As for a different motor, the Fusin has a disc mount and rotor, but the Ezee is probably a better motor. I could make a disc mount that bolts on, but I have no calipers worth using--maybe if I could put four or five of them on a rotor it might do something. :lol:


I might someday happen on another motor with a disc mount (along with calipers that actually work), but the idea with this (and most of my stuff) is to use what I already have because I have it. :) Ideally, if I had bunches of money, I'd just buy all new stuff whenever I had an idea to try out, and get the right stuff for the job every time. Would save me LOTS of time picking thru the bits I ahve around here for something that will work, and could even get rid of most of my "junk".

But half the fun of this is misusing things never intended for the purpose I'm putting them to, and having it work anyway, sometimes better than the stuff made for that. :lol:


Those black forks look really solid and a disk brake might really up your game braking quite a bit.
Only if I had a *really* good one.

The rim brakes can already make the front wheel skid, so can't get any better than that without adding brakes to the two rear wheels. I just have to build plates with bosses to clamp to the fatbike fork the same way I did to the disc-only suspension fork I'm using now.

I've tried a number of mechanical calipers and rotors that come off basic bicycles and they're all junk, up to I think a 180mm rotor size. Can feel friction, and it might slow me down eventually.... :/

I have some motorcycle hydraulic calipers and the foot control and a couple of rotors, but would need to make adapters to mount them and use hoses I have, etc.; Eventually the plan is to use those on the rear wheels because that's "easier" than doing it on the front. (since I really need to rebuild the whole fender frames/axle mounts anyway, with some new ideas to try out).


A lot of MTB guys pull mechanical disk calipers off so they can go to hydros and have them sitting around so you could probably horsetrade for some if you ask around.

I don't know anyone local that has anything other than junk basic stuff, which I already have, and which basically don't even slow me down, much less stop on a dime (it might for a regular bicycle).

I've watched for some being sold here on ES by members I could probably trust, but so far nothing's ever turned up in a price range I could afford (during those times I even have money I can spend on things, which I don't right now, and won't for the foreseeable future due to hours cuts at work).

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Mar 05, 2018 12:55 am

I like the idea about using the motorcycle brake and foot pedal, sounds good because the Cruiser is a pretty heavy bike and every bit of extra stopping power is good in the event of a white knuckle emergency stop. Even though it's common knowledge a front brake has substantially more stopping power than a rear I'll bet due to the weight over the rear wheels with 2 motors and all the frame back there you have quite a bit of stopping power from the two rear wheels (aside from regent braking, that must be a godsend on the trike). I have a big Titanium plate and 8 screws in my right wrist so I like having brakes that are easy to pull and engage without having to pull real hard since my gripping power isn't quite what it used to be.
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 05, 2018 2:04 am

Yeah, the high rear weight and length of the trike means rear braking will work even better than the front.


Over here
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p1362521
I've posted the findings (bad news) from today's experiments. Looks like I have some electronics design and build work ahead. :(

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by RTIII » Mar 05, 2018 7:03 pm

amberwolf wrote:
Mar 05, 2018 2:04 am
Yeah, the high rear weight and length of the trike means rear braking will work even better than the front.
No, it doesn't. :wink:

The weight transfer from the rest of the vehicle to the front as braking begins to happen - no matter what part of the vehicle initiates the braking - is nothing short of amazing, and, the harder you brake, the LESS EFFECTIVE the rear will be, due to this effect. This is because the moment arm begins at the surface of the ground and is amplified by the length of the vehicle - the front / rear wheelbase.

However, all that's kind of moot.

I do want to point out that one key reason why rim brakes are so effective is because of their mechanical advantage over _all_ disk brakes I've seen - namely, their distance from the center. The ratio of distance from center of any two brakes will tell you the advantage of the one over the other. It's literally the same calculation as we make for torque, as in torquing a fastener. It's force at the distance applied from center. Given the small diameter of most disk brake disks relative to the much larger diameter of the whole rim, that's your key metric. To be more effective, disk brakes must overcome this inherent disadvantage somehow, typically by increasing the coefficient of friction and also by grabbing more tightly, which, again, can be achieved by basic mechanical means, but the trade-off comes down to "leverage", and, again, torque, this time applied by your hand at whatever lever is actuating the system.

I quite agree that a foot powered brake can "blow the doors off" a hand applied system since human legs are so much more powerful than our hands. ... Given all the engineering work you've already done, making a lever system to use your leg power and move a cable damned hard, that's really a no-brainer for you! 8) Your big challenge would be, "to what do I apply all this power?!"

And, consider the cable-stretch argument. This is where a hydraulic system can be damned powerful, if you care to bother to engineer it. If you have an old motorcycle hydraulic setup, that could be made to work. Hell, even an old VW master cylinder could work on the one end. ... Imagine a pivot point welded in as a transverse tube to your bottom bracket area. A bolt will run through it. To be attached via that bolt, make a "U-shaped" bit of thick flat bar with holes through the parallel parts - the bolt runs through these - this prevents the U-shaped bit from twisting the bolt but lets it pivot. The bolt isn't tightened, it is double nutted.) To this U shaped bit you weld a bar of your favorite design shape that will, wherever you decide best, end up with a dowel across the far end of it, offering either foot a chance to snag that dowel and push - now you have your "pedal". Somewhere closer to the bolt, you'll want to figure how you'll attach your master cylinder (or, heck, screw the cylinder and run a bowden tube with heavy steel cable - like, say, an old hand-brake cable from an old VW, threaded on the end for adjustment!...) And there you have a basic approach. Using automotive steel tubing is dirt cheap, easy to get and very durable. . . IDK how you do the slave cylinder(s) - that's up to what you've got on hand, I'm just trying to feed your thinking to include more possibilities. ... Even low capacity bicycle-intended hydraulic brakes powered by a human foot can likely put a disk brake on all three wheels and stop that vehicle WAY better than anything else you've ever tried, it's just the pain in the ass / cost of doing it at each wheel. ... Even designing and making from parts on hand your own mechanical brakes with foot power, using VASTLY larger diameter cables is fairly trivial, given your abilities to weld, etc.

... And I wouldn't mind shipping you a few parts to try if you want. ... Imagine, if you will, a simple dual-circuit master from an old VW (they're DIRT CHEAP from China these days) powered by leg power as described above or similar, routed to steel lines that run to two VW drum brake wheel slaves for the rear, each spreads, so you have a caliper you make and weld in that is similar to modern bike brakes but where when you spread ABOVE the pivot points, the brake pads run inward on the outside of the rims. The front is similar, but you run a dual circuit master so in case of failure, you still have the rears, and won't have to do a panic reach for your old, still in place hand operated brakes! ... Or, you run single circuit and rely upon the hand brakes as a last ditch solution in the off chance of hydraulic failure and thereby simplify your reservoir and so on. ... The front wheel, though, because it turns, will need a flexible hose there, but, again, dirt cheap.

If you want to try something like this, I'll see if I can create a care package for you so you don't have to spend any money out of pocket. ... This "care package" could be made up of used parts I already have laying around, so, it won't cost either of us much, just your time and ingenuity at fabricating the system... ...Given my engineering background, I'm perfectly happy helping you figure out an improved solution.

As an aside, you need a backup vehicle! This could help you with down-time issues - maybe your brother's trike can serve this?!

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 05, 2018 11:12 pm

RTIII wrote:
Mar 05, 2018 7:03 pm
The weight transfer from the rest of the vehicle to the front as braking begins to happen - no matter what part of the vehicle initiates the braking - is nothing short of amazing, and, the harder you brake, the LESS EFFECTIVE the rear will be, due to this effect. This is because the moment arm begins at the surface of the ground and is amplified by the length of the vehicle - the front / rear wheelbase.
I know; I meant in relation to a normal bicycle (though I didn't say that specifically). For instance, with CrazyBike2, I could brake the rear wheel hard and not skid it easily, because it is a very long wheelbase and it's very heavy back there, vs other bikes like my Fusin Test bike or DayGlo Avenger where if I did that I'd just skid the rear wheel under the same conditions.


I do want to point out that one key reason why rim brakes are so effective is because of their mechanical advantage over _all_ disk brakes I've seen - namely, their distance from the center.
Yes, its one of the reasons that I'm using them--a cheap rim brake will work better than a cheap disc brake given the same conditions/etc. I've had cheap disc brakes that would cost more than the rim brake that easily beats them out. :)

Disc have other advantages, but none that really apply to me, since I'm riding on paved streets that are dry 99% of the time, and I change wheels or bike designs often enough that I haven't ever worn a rim out. ;)

I quite agree that a foot powered brake can "blow the doors off" a hand applied system since human legs are so much more powerful than our hands. ... Given all the engineering work you've already done, making a lever system to use your leg power and move a cable damned hard, that's really a no-brainer for you! 8)
Except that I'm not going to be using leg power to do it--I'm going to be using a hand lever to cable-operate the MC hydraulic foot control.

Foot operated brakes are probably not possible...though I have a potential idea of where I might put a "pedal" for it, I don't know that I could react fast enough to use it.

My legs are in use on the pedals, and to make a control I could use my feet to operate I'd have to have it out beyond the circle my feet make on the cranks, which means to brake with them I'd have to pick my foot up off the pedal wherever it is in the circle, and blindly move it to the "brake pedal", and the reaction time required to do that would negate my ability to use them in an emergency stop (which is really the only time I'd need them, other than potentially on a hill or in an extremely rare flooded-road situation that made the rim brakes enough less effective that I needed more braking).



If you have an old motorcycle hydraulic setup, that could be made to work.
That's discussed on a previous page (there's some pics of the rotor/caliper/foot control, etc; can't find the hand control and the other caliper/rotor yet).

The idea is to make mounts on the inboard sides of the hubmotors in the rear to secure the MC rotors to, and rebuild the fender frame/etc around the motors to clear these and mount the calipers to. Not gonna happen anytime soon, but it's a potential plan.

Another thing I might do is make a really heavy-duty trailer, and use the pair of MC wheels I have on that (they're different sizes, so it'll look a little odd) and use the hydraulic brakes on that, operated via cable from the trike (or more likely, as surge brakes). It would also have a power assist, very low speed because I only really need it to get started from a stop quickly and easily, but high-torque. Couple brushed powerchair motors driving the wheels via chains with freewheels at one end or the other, powered via an old Curtis brushed controller.

These days, I don't use trailers very often, though, because SBC can haul a lot of stuff and mostly I don't need more than what it can carry. But when I do need a trailer, I *really* need it, and usually really heavy-duty at that. Iv'e been pondering this SHD-trailer for a while now (ought to start a thread on it).

slaves for the rear, each spreads, so you have a caliper you make and weld in that is similar to modern bike brakes but where when you spread ABOVE the pivot points, the brake pads run inward on the outside of the rims.
Somewhere back on the CrazyBike2 thread (or maybe DayGlo Avenger) I had a post with a napkin sketch of something like that, but it was cable-operated, using pulleys to magnify the pull of the regular lever, and the pivots n teh center of the brake arms above the tire rather than down below the rims. I never built it, as I didn't have the tools or skills then, and didn't really know how to figure out the pulleys/etc. for the right leverages. I could probably do it now, but have figured out how to generally make rim brakes work correctly without doing that sort of thing. :lol:

I'd still like to try something like that just to see how it works, though, someday.


The front is similar, but you run a dual circuit master so in case of failure, you still have the rears, and won't have to do a panic reach for your old, still in place hand operated brakes!
I prefer to have front and rear on separate controls anyway, not so much for redundancy but because there are conditions/situations in which one can be more appropriate to use than the other, and under some conditions using them together (like a typical car) can result in a loss of control that may not happen if used independently.

If you want to try something like this, I'll see if I can create a care package for you so you don't have to spend any money out of pocket. ... This "care package" could be made up of used parts I already have laying around, so, it won't cost either of us much, just your time and ingenuity at fabricating the system... ...Given my engineering background, I'm perfectly happy helping you figure out an improved solution.
I might take you up on that, but we'd have to work it all out first, so I'd have a plan and timeline so it wouldn't be wasting your parts and shipping money. :)

I'd be happy enough to go with the MC parts I have, once I find all the stuff, if it all works. I have some hoses that will probably work, if they have the right fittings.

The main thing is time, and rebuilding parts of teh frame to accomodate the rotors inboard of the rear hubmotors, but without changing the usable cargo deck area and if possible without making the trike wider. (a tall order). And making adapters to secure the rotors to the hubs. (they have bicycle disc mounts, so just have to made adapters to fit the MC rotors, which are probably different BCDs from each other, etc).

I have nearly zero experience with hydraulics of any kind, so the whole thing is going to be a learning experience, regardless of how it gets done.
As an aside, you need a backup vehicle! This could help you with down-time issues - maybe your brother's trike can serve this?!
That's part of the idea of it being there, since he will rarely use it anyway. But I have to finish engineering some stuff for it, and finish the structural woodwork, wiring, etc. THen work out any bugs that show up in shakedown rides.

Then based on how it works, use that info plus what I learned with SB Cruiser and build a whole new version of that, too. :) Maybe in a few years, at the rate things are going....


I'd like to get CrazyBike2 back to operational, too, as a backup and just for fun, but it needs a fair bit of stuff at this point (cuz I've robbed it for things as I've upgraded SB Cruiser), and until I accumulate those it isn't going to happen. Energy and time to actually do the work is even harder to find; too many other things have priority.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 06, 2018 3:14 am

With the right rear wheel's rim damaged, and unable to be fully trued anymore (laterally it's a mess), there's the chance the changing loads on it (especially side loading in turns) could cause further problems or even a wheel failure (unlikely, but....).

I've been trying to find time to prepare a replacement wheel, as I don't really have time to take this one off and relace it to another rim all in one day. So I've been doing a little at a time to get teh bits of a second motor wheel built, the last few days. Today I finally reached the point of drilling the set of smaller spoke holes in the second MXUS 450x motor. (I think it's a 4503, and the 4504 is already on the left side of the trike, but I cant' remember for sure).

Have to do this because its factory-drilled for something like 10g I guess, and redrilling to fit my butted 13/14g spokes makes more sense than spokehead washers (which I don't have anyway).

I did this for the other MXUS last year, clamping the axle in a vise and rotating the flange under the drill press, and it worked pretty well (though I broke the drill bit in the last hole IIRC, and had to dig it out and finish the hole with a diferent one).

But when I tried to clamp this MXUS into the same fixture still setup on the press, I couldn't clamp it down--the vise's threaded clamping tube is sheared thru again. I went thru a lot of fixing that last time, and it's just not fixable again. So I put a different vise on there, but it won't securely clamp the axle--it's jaws are not flat and not as tall as the first vise, so the motor wiggles in it. I tried to use it anyway, manually holding it as still as I could, and broke three of the 8 drillbits I have that are the right size, just getting 5 holes drilled. So that aint' gonna work.


I had one more vise, and it'll hold the axle fine, but the clamp it uses to secure to the worksurface sticks down so far that there's no way to get the clamped hub close enough to the drillpress because of the base of the press itself is so wide, and I cant' move the hub down or the press up, etc.


So...I realized the "table" of the press (that can raise or lower, and that I was using to help stabilize the hub), if rotated upside down, could hold the motor in place by passing the axle thru one of the two long slots the table has (which are designed to secure a sliding vise of a type I don't have), and use the axle nut and washer on the top (now bottom) side to clamp the mtoor to the table. (this is why it had to be upside down, as the bottom fo teh table is not flat and has ridges teh nut can't clamp to)

This worked better even than the original vise way; using the ability to pivot the table around the press's main support to position the flange under the bit, and the height adjustment to get it just where it needs to be. Couple blocks of wood between the table and the side cover of the hub to wedge it hard so it can't rotate while drilling.


Because of all the usual delays in fixing the tools so I could do work with them, I only got one side done, so whenever I have more time I'll be doing the other half of the spoke holes. Then delace the X5304 from it's rim and spokes, and use those to lace this motor into, tension it, and true it. Then take the damaged wheel / HSR3548 off the trike and put this one in it's place, and wire it up, determining it's phase/hall combo with the old Grinfineon that's on there at that time.
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 09, 2018 5:35 am

I've been tracking data from the few days of commuting since changing to the CA3.1 (as opposed to the CA2.23), without the CA controlling anything. It's hooked up to the TDCM TorquePAS BB, but the CA's throttle/etc outputs aren't connected to anything, so there's no limiting, just data collection.


I'm using the same shunt, though now it runs thru a newly-crimped JST rather than directly soldered. The new CA settings for the shunt are the same as the old CA.

But the peak current does not match between them, and Wh/mile usage is also significantly different.

Peak current is now around 85-86A, and wh/mile is about 50-51.
Peak current used to show 100-110A+, and wh/mile was about 60.

So...either the JST connection or crimp is not good enough, or something is different in how the CA3 does something, or I've missed some setting I'm not aware of.


I'm also now doing a "rundown test" of the pack, to see how the internal resistance changes as teh SOC goes down, as measured by the CA.

So far it's reading around 38milliohm from the top of charge 40Ah down about 8.66Ah, so around 4.33Ah per day's commute (this is probably a little low, based on the info in the previous half of this post).

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 13, 2018 12:28 am

Read 39milliohm after the last day of the workweek, before I recharged it to be ready for the next one (theoretically I could go for about two weeks without charging, but I'd want to carry a second small pack the last few days just in case it ran out sooner, and I don't have it setup for that right now).

We got some stuff in on nonstandard pallets recently, and since we trash those rather than send them back, I took them apart to use for projects like the seatbox/deck on the Raine Trike, and the cargo area side/top/front/rear enclosure (to replace the plastic dog crate) on SB Cruiser.

The pics at the end of the poast are of the third load; the pallet was almost twice as long as usual, so the core 2x4s are too long for the cargo area--the most secure way to transport them was to tie them down to the siderail over the fender and seatbox, on my left (cuz it's easier for me to get on/off the trike on the right).


I spent a fair bit of today breaking down other smaller pallets that did fit without predisassembly; some of the wood is pretty crappy, but most of it's good enough to be usable for these projects (if not something you'd use for structural house building, or fine-looking woodwork). There's 2x4s, 1x6s, 1x3s, 1.5x3s, 1.5x4s, as the main stuff. There's some other odd size bits but just one plank of each, mostly the crappy stuff either already broken or cracked, etc. Didn't get pics of that stuff yet, but I'm stacking it organized by size first; most of ti is the same length.
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by wturber » Mar 13, 2018 11:13 pm

That's true recycling. :^)

Years ago when I was in high school I made a desk out of the wooden tomato crates they were tossing out at the Hardees (or was it Whataburger by then?) I was working at. That desk worked fine. No drawers, but the open crates still made great sideways storage bins.
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 14, 2018 2:34 am

Yeah, I'll recycle just about anything I can use something from. Nowadays I do a lot less of it than I once did, partly because it's more difficult to get recycled stuff "legally" (there's laws preventing dumpster diving and the like for the last couple decades at least). So I don't do the dumpster diving part (too much risk), just save stuff via freecycle or my workplace, or sometimes pickup from the curbside piles on bulk trash days if I happen to be out and about already (there is rarely anything worth picking up since scrappers hunt for that stuff like animals in the arctic for food).


FWIW, it's a lot of work to reuse pallet wood (bits of failed nailings have to be pried out, staples, sometimes chunks are missing from boards or they're not cut straight, so you have to either cut it shorter or narrower, etc. Lots of the wood is just not usable for much of anything, on old used pallets--it just disintegrates as it's disassembled. So that's another reason I use the pallets we would otherwise throw away--they are all brand-new, used only once, to ship us whatever came on them. So the wood is in good shape for whatever kind it happens to be (most of it is cheap white pine, sometimes heavier woods are used in the regular pallets, but rarely in the odd-sized stuff).


If my time was "worth" anything to me, (meaning, if I had money to spend equivalent to the time), it'd be "cheaper" to buy new wood specifically for what I would otherwise do with the pallet wood. But I dont have the money to buy the wood, so spending the time is my only alternative if I want to use wood for stuff.

Recycling steel stuff is easier....

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 17, 2018 1:12 pm

I got the rest of the holes drilled in the other MXUS spoke flange today before work, and then cleaned them up and countersunk them for the spoke heads. Now I'm disassembling the X5304 wheel to put it's spokes/rim on the MXUS, so maybe my next days off (whenever those are) I'll get the wheel built and hopefully installed on the trike to replace the damaged one with the HSR3548 on it.

(which can then go back on CrazyBIke2, so it will at least have a motor in back, if I ever need to use it)

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by John and Cecil » Mar 17, 2018 5:24 pm

Awesome! :) I bet the dogs love it!

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 18, 2018 1:36 am

Kirin, not really--she'd rather ride in my lap (if she could possbily fit, and if I could trust her not to just jump off and chase stuff).

Yogi, he's ok with it. Mostly cuz he'd rather come with me than stay home, but he's nto really interested in the actual ride.

But TIny, who it was really built around being able to carry, she loved going for rides in it. She'd just jump in whenever the dog carrier was on it and open (sometimes she'd just climb in the cargo bed when the carrier wasn't on there, and wonder why I wasn't getting on too, and riding off someplace).

She'd probably like it even more nowadays, if she was still around. :/

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by John and Cecil » Mar 18, 2018 10:29 am

I'm sorry about Tiny (and Teddy). They were lucky to have someone like you to share their lives with. Dogs don't live very long so it is important that they meet the right person, and you are one of the right people :)

I guess one of the problems (for Yogi maybe) is it is not a fast ride too. Cecil likes to go very fast. He will bark at cars in the HOV lane at 75mph to get out of his way. He likes riding on the bike but he would prefer to go much faster. Whenever we went under 25mph on the motorcycle he would nudge me with his nose to go faster.

Maybe Kirin would prefer an open seat like Cecil's. Basically it is a box with some padding. He wears a harness with a loop on his back and a strap goes from one side of the box in the middle to the other side over his back and through the loop. When the strap is snug it will force him to remain seated, which is very important. A bungie cord can be added to the front and attached to his collar that will allow him to only reach his head out so far (we lane split) and also keep him from trying to face backwards. He also had a strap going from the back of the box to his harness for extra security. This setup allows him to stretch his neck out and enjoy the ride but not be trapped inside a cage, and it is very safe if designed correctly. Cecil hates cages and he will whimper and whine but he loves riding in his box and he has done 500+ mile days and has 80k miles in 6 years.

When I first saw your setup with the trailer I was thinking to myself that you could put an open box seat on top of the cage and make it a double decker carrier and not need the trailer (except maybe for a 3rd dog) - :lol:

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 18, 2018 12:26 pm

John and Cecil wrote:
Mar 18, 2018 10:29 am
I guess one of the problems (for Yogi maybe) is it is not a fast ride too. Cecil likes to go very fast. He will bark at cars in the HOV lane at 75mph to get out of his way. He likes riding on the bike but he would prefer to go much faster. Whenever we went under 25mph on the motorcycle he would nudge me with his nose to go faster.
:lol: I'm not sure but I think Yogi's problem is the ground is moving under him (bumpy ride) when he's not doing the moving--while that was part of what Tiny liked. Yogi does like to bark at all the other cars going by, so he just about explodes when we're out on the roads with traffic in mulitple directions, as he cant decide which one to "chase". ;)

Maybe Kirin would prefer an open seat like Cecil's. Basically it is a box with some padding. He wears a harness with a loop on his back and a strap goes from one side of the box in the middle to the other side over his back and through the loop. When the strap is snug it will force him to remain seated, which is very important. A bungie cord can be added to the front and attached to his collar that will allow him to only reach his head out so far (we lane split) and also keep him from trying to face backwards. He also had a strap going from the back of the box to his harness for extra security. This setup allows him to stretch his neck out and enjoy the ride but not be trapped inside a cage, and it is very safe if designed correctly. Cecil hates cages and he will whimper and whine but he loves riding in his box and he has done 500+ mile days and has 80k miles in 6 years.
Kirin gets overwhelmed, I think. She's a magnetic dog, usually stuck to me; I guess I'm the first stable thing she's had so she doesn't want to lose track of me. Whenever too many things are going on she sometimes wants to hide, sometimes gets spastic, and on rarer occasions it makes her aggressive/protective. She also wants to chase all the cars out there, so she can't be in anything open that has any risk of her deciding to try to jump out--at 120lbs, she could break herself if she couldn't break the attachment to the trike. Unlike Yogi and most dogs, I think she doesn't have the sense not to actually try to do it. :/

Tiny I probably could've trusted to stay right there with me. Kirin...is a little on the spastic side, to be generous. ;)

I do have a plan to more openly-enclose the back of the trike, so whoever rides there can stick their head out front next to the seat, beside me, but not get completely out that way. Been collecting the bits for that (old pallet wood, etc) for the last year and am now in the slow process of cutting and preparing the wood and stuff for it, then just have to mount the panels to the trike when I'm done. The very basic idea I noted down here
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1259995

The one other problem Kirin has with the trike is that when she stands up, her back is against the underside of the rack, since it wasn't exactly built around her height. :oops: (It does have a series of holes in the connecting supports that bolt it to the trike, so it *can* be raised for taller cargo--I've just never done that yet. :) )

Image

Hachi--her I raised from birth so she could be trusted in a sidebox on the bike, but she got too big for it, and I built a trailer (the Mk I Flatbed Kennel Trailer; there's a thread somewhere for it) for her (and her mom; the other dogs I had didn't like rides). this is her as a puppy a few months old:

Image

Image
When I first saw your setup with the trailer I was thinking to myself that you could put an open box seat on top of the cage and make it a double decker carrier and not need the trailer (except maybe for a 3rd dog) - :lol:
If it werent' for the size of the dogs, that might work--but it'd be a tad on the tippy side in turns with that much weight up there. Yogi is 150lbs, and Kirin is 120lbs. TIny was only 100lbs, but still....

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Mar 19, 2018 9:55 am

You might have to build another trike,,,,,,the London style double decker. Man the sight of a DD Trike carrying 2 Saint Bernards in the Phoenix heat would probably have some people thinking they had seen a mirage. It would have to be air conditioned of course to keep the dogs cool. What a great scene in a movie that would make, a chase scene with Dog Bus chasing the bank robbers, robbers run out of gas and dogs jump out and apprehend suspect, collect reward, buy 6 tons of dog food and immense pile of doggie treats.
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by John and Cecil » Mar 19, 2018 5:35 pm

Cecil had an issue with the moving ground in the beginning too. When we first started riding I kept our speed under 10mph and he would just watch the ground and looking for a chance to jump off. It takes time for them to get accustomed to it. We took it slow for a few weeks, then slowly ramped up our speed over time. Somewhere around 3-5k miles and speed was no longer an issue for him. After about 20k miles it was the opposite and he started to dislike slow speeds. The noise makes it more difficult too, but an electric bike does not really make much noise compared to a motorcycle. Dogs are amazing, under the right circumstances they become a part of us. :)

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 20, 2018 1:00 am

Yes, they do. :)


MXUS #2, for the right side, is now laced up and tensioned. Just have to put it on the trike and true it, and connect the phase/hall wires to match up to the controller. (since the old Grinfineon is sensored, so it can actually use the halls unlike the generic controller on the left side wheel).

* side note: Truing these wheels for roundness is done to the *tire* rather than the rim, because the tires don't seat their bead perfectly on the rim, making them out-of-round if I trued just the rim.
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Got some more wood processed from the pallets,
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and glued together some strips of sanding belt to make new ones for my sander (the purchased ones all disintegrated). Still drying in clamps, so won't know if they work till tomorrow at the earliest.
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Data from the last week of work commute. Several windy days, up to 20MPH winds sometimes.

57.8 Vstart
49.6 Vrest
45.4 Vmin

27.335 miles
20.7MPH max
14.4MPH avg
1h 53m 52s triptime total

86.5 Amax
-6.7 Amin
0.8% regen
0.2550 Regen Ah
29.554 Fwd Ah

29.2 Ah
1500 Wh (exactly, on the main page, which was interesting)
1515.8 Wh (on the Wh/page)
55.0 Wh/mile

0.041 ohms Rbatt
2944 cycles
525.0 Kwh total
3686 miles total odo

20.21 Human Wh
13 Hwh avg
45.5 RPM Avg

Note that I still think there's something wrong with the settings in the CAv3 somewhere regarding current readings, because it reads significantly lower on peak amps, about 20%, vs the CAv2 using the same shunt. It also reads lower on wh/mile and wh and Ah. Volts appears to read the same.

I'm going to make up a Y-connector for the CA plug on the shunt, so I can hook both CAs up at teh same time, so I can gather data on both on the same trips for the same conditions. I don't know if it will make figuring out the issue any easier, but it'll show me exactly waht the differences are, even in realtime, rather than comparing historical data to present data.

Yogi and Kirin not interested in my workings, just wanting playtime.
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amberwolf
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 21, 2018 3:55 am

After a couple issues, I got the 2nd MXUS 450x working on the trike, to replace the bent-up HSR3548 wheel.

So...I'd replaced (and tested) one of the halls a while back, I think it was when I got it, because it had a bad one. Or maybe it was two of them. Anyway, two of them had different heatshrink than the third.
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However, when I tried to wire it up to verify it's phase/hall combo on the sensored-only Grinfineon, it didn't get any response regardless of hall combo, just a tiny click. Multimeter showed two of them steady at 4.96v (with 5.01v at the red v+ wire), and the third steady at 3.53v, regardless of rotation.
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Opened up the motor and verified continuity from halls to controller wires. Then verified steady voltages even with a separate magnet and teh halls pulled away from the stator. :/

How the halls would die when the mtoor wasn't even being used, or when the sensors weren't used or hooked up, back when I ran it as sensorless before getting the other MXUS...I don't know.


Took a bit to find my packet of spare halls, but I did, and replaced all three halls, and now they all work normaly.
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Tried the combo thing again, and found that with all colors matching, it runs perfectly...backwards. Which would be easy to fix with the reverse wire, if I didn't already have it setup thru the relay for backing up. I didn't want to mess with the relay wiring (since I'd "water-proofed" it a bit ago), so instead I just went thru wiring combos till I found the forward one. It's been hours and I had a nap in between so I don't recall what it was, but I did get a pic, for future reference.
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That said, I could eliminate the relay entirely, I guess, with both of the controllers using reverse the same way now (instead of opposite), if I were to put the motor / controller back to matching colors.


Anyhow, a quick ride around the yard tests it ok, and it definitely pulls harder from a stop than the HSR3548, and I get wheelspin in the dirt patches of teh yard (like I already did with the MXUS on the left side). Didn't get to testing it in a street ride yet, will do that for the commute tomorrow.
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Due to the hall thing I ddn't get to wiring up the CA-=shunt Y cable, so I cna't yet test those side by side. but at least I can now test directly the MXUS vs HSR (well, previous historical HSR data/experience vs MXUS new data/expereince, using the same controller/etc.)


I did manage to break off the under-hitch taillight, though, and didn't yet get it remounted. :(

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