The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 22 2018 6:01am

Unsurprisingly, power usage is a bit higher, but the torque at startup is also higher, changing acceleration from 0-20MPH from a bit under 4 seconds to just over 3. :)

Electric braking is a bit more equal between left and right, though the left one (with the EABS controler) is still noticeably harder braking than the right (with regen). THat might be reversed as the pack runs down and I get closer to empty than full.

Power steer (steering with one motor at a time) is better on left turns using this motor on the right than the HSR3548.

Overall it's more like when I had the X5304 on there, and though I can't compare directly it seems more even torquey than that. (since I ran that sensorless, and this MXUS is sensored, with a 40A controller vs a 32-33A, I'd have to put the X5304 on to test that in a real comparison, which isn't likely to happen).

Ride is better without the wobbliness from the bent-up rim (taht can't be retrued completely anymore).

Sound is different now, with two of the same motor (but different windings); more clicky and less growly.

Need to paint the motors to match the trike. (they're both still black) Just thinking on ways to ensure I can still read the markings on the covers.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 23 2018 2:35am

On the way home from work, I think I surprised some "kids" in their noisy vroomy car. They'd been behind me as I approached a red light, and as I slowed and then stopped for the light (ceasing pedalling as I hit the brake light lever) they swerved to my left and into that lane and screeched to a stop partway into the crosswalk, leaning out and laughing and pointing, revving their little engine. Another car pulled up behind me, waiting to turn right, also with "kids" and with their windows down.

I always keep an eye on the whole intersection, which includes the crosstraffic lights so I know when I'm about to get a green, so I don't get honked at by cars behind me, and I will let off my brake light when the cross light turns red (if I know the green for me will be next--otherwise I'll let off whenever I know I'm about to get a green).

So when this happened at this time, then as soon as it went green I used WOT on both motors, and "ghost" pedalling like I usually do these days (cuz it helps my knees hurt less when I get done with a ride, especially when its' colder out; my gearing doesn't go high enough to let me contribute above a few MPH).

With the new acceleration being close enough to 3 seconds to 20MPH to just call it that, it was enough to surprise the kids to my left into not even starting out on the green light at all, and their laughing just stopped--but I heard someone in the car behind me whoop and laugh as they gunned it right behind me and turned right.

I was already well down the road from there almost to the next light, and the light behind me had already turned red before the kids in teh car that had been to my left remembered they needed to crooss the intersection, and they started to go but cars were already going on hte cross street, so they were stuck where they were, and honking and revving their engine, one of them hanging out their window yelling something that sounded like ti might've been obscene, when a police cruiser pulled up next to them.

I don't know what happened after that as I reached the next intersection and turned right to continue home, but I didn't see the kids in their "hotrod" car again.



A "little" SUV paced me for a distance, starting aobut a half mile south of the above, and I could see bright pinpoints that were probably celphone "flash" LEDs so they were probably recording my ride. We reached a red light, and stopped in parallel lanes; me in the right lane with my blinker on to turn right and head out of Metrocenter, them in teh straight-thru-only lane but also with their right blinker going. (no where for them to turn because there's only one southbound lane out of metrocenter, and I'm about to occupy it).

I waited to make sure it's clear, then I turn right and acclerate up the slope of the bridge over the canals, and I hear surprised-sounding whoops from them, as they continue to just sit there at the light (now green for them), and then they make a *left* turn into the oncoming-traffic-lane out of the walmart parking lot (rather than the right turn they were still signalling, and rather than turning into the inbound lane they should have). Nobody else was at teh intersecttion so it didn't matter, but it was still stupid.



Oh, also--with just the HSR3548, the acceleration decreases significantly on that uphill over the canals out of metrocenter, but same controller/etc on just the one MXUS 450x does not, it keeps increasing. :)


One thing that'll take getting used to is that the MXUS doesnt' have nearly as fine a low-speed control as the HSR; it pushes pretty hard adn suddenly with just a little throttle.

The leftside MXUS is easier to control at lower speeds than the right one; I typically use it for parking lots as I can easily hold it right at 10MPH. The right one is hard to keep steady at under 12MPH. Dunno how much of that is controller and how much of it is motor, but I suspect it has more to do with the motor and the difference in their windings than the controller.

The right one is a 4503, and I think the left is a 4504.



Regarding the halls, this post
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1261391
and this post
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1261397
tells me I replaced two fo teh three halls back then (green and blue)

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 23 2018 3:26am

Some simulator links, using guesstimates of some things (like weight, and using the Elf bike car for aero; SBC is probably less aero than that. Using custom cotnroller for the altered-=shunt "100A" generic. Dunno what the actual phase current is/should be so just made it the same as battery. Battery resistance is what the CA says it is.

Auto throttle for 20MPH on each wheel, says it'd take about 50% throttle on the right motor and 67% on the left to maintain that. Also says I ought to be getting about 16wh/mile, which is about 1/5 of what I actually get, so the ELF must be WAAAAAY more aero than SBC is. :lol:
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.ht ... cont_b=C40

I guess I should do a coastdown test of SBC in it's present configuration just ot ahve the numbers for teh simulator.


If I set it to manual throttle, and move the markers down to as close to 0MPH as it'll let me, I get an acceleration of about 4MPH/second on the left motor, and about 3MPH/second on the right. (the same simulation except with the HSR3548 gives about 2.8MPH/second for the right side, indicating my "butt dyno" feel of greater acceleration with the MXUS is correct).

This stays at about 3MPH/second for the right mtoor, and drops to about 3.8MPH/second for the left, by 5MPH. By 10MPH it's down to 2.9MPH/second for the left and 2.3 for the right. By 15MPH it's 2 and 1.7. By 20MPH they're swapped and the right mtoor has a higher acceleration, at 1.3MPH/second for the right and 1.2MPH/second for the left. Doesnt' matter what it is after that since that's the max speed I'm allowed here.

http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.ht ... cont_b=C40


When I use itn in ADD mode instead of compare, the total acceleration goes from about 7.3MPH/sec at the start, to 7 at 5MPH, to 5.5 at 10MPH, to 4 at 15MPH, to 2.9 at 20MPH.

http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.ht ... e&blue=Lbs


It still shows ridiculously low wh/mile consumption, indicating also that it's under 300w to maintain 20MPH, which is less than 1/3 of what it really takes, so I'll definitely have to figure out what my aero numbers really are to get that closer to reality.

It also shows that around 33MPH would be the max possible speed at WOT on both motors in ADD mode. I don't have a place on private land that I can test that theory, but I'd try it out if I knew someone with a long straight flat well-paved strip on private land to do it. :)

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 23 2018 3:53am

Ok, a bit of reading here
https://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/Cycling ... amics.aspx
shows me a way to estimate frontal area, which is around 5' tall and 3' wide, worst case, so that's 15 square feet, which is 1.4 square meters.

Let's be generous and say it has the aero drag of a brick, whcih is 2.0.

So the CdA should be around 1.4 * 2.0, which is 2.8.

That's about 5 times the area of the default 0.5CdA in the "custom" aero setting (don't know what the ELF setting is).

Cr, rolling resistance, well, I couldn't find specs for either the Shinko SR741s or the CST City I'm using, so I did some poking around and found various values for similar tires, and the average seems to be around 0.015, so I used that. Most likely it's less, but there's three tires and the trike and me are heavy so we'll just go with it. ;)

Given those values in the custom frame/aero part of the simulator, now I get something more realistic, though higher than actual, around 1500w to maintain 20MPH. It still says it's 49.6 Wh/mi on the left and 38.5 Wh/mi on the right, so presuming those add it's also reading high now.

http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.ht ... e&blue=Lbs


So the actual values are probably about 25% less than my guesstimates above, and that would give about the same values as actual testing results do.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 25 2018 9:06pm

A friend was tossing out some spray paint, which included red and black and some gray primer, so I took the opportunity to paint the rims/motors, and do a bit of touchup here and there while I was at it, since the weather was nice and not cool or hot or humid.
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I took off the seat and modified it as planned, unlacing it, cutting off the rear support bar from in front of the seat back and welding a new one on behind the seat back, moving the bar back almost two inches, to give my tailbone clearance to not bang against it on bumpy roads (meaning, everywhere I commonly go).
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Then I relaced the seat to it, though I had to skip some holes to give enough cord length.
I thought about digging out my roll of paracord (some of which I used previosuly to lace up CrazyBike2's seat), but thought I'd try just skipping some holes first and seeing how it rides. Seems to be fine this way; if it's not after a few work commutes I'll go ahead and get the paracord out.
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In the original plan to modify the seat, I was going to cut the welds to the existing bar and just move it, but due to the side supports for the seat I couldn't get the angle grinder in there where it would reach the weld on the front side, so I just cut the bar off and then used a similar piece of round bar saved off a junked retail fixture from years ago. Then I repainted the cut and the welded areas black to match the rest of the seatframe, mostly to keep any of it from rusting.


I also tested out the sanding belts, but they didn't last more than a minute for the first one, and the other two just came apart as soon as I turned on power. :/ I"ll have to find a better glue that's better penetrating and more flexible, to be able to repair these and make my own.

So I used the vibrating sheet-based sander instead (which I don't like because the shaking makes my entire upper body ache for hours, and my hands and elbows for days), and cleaned off just the basic weathering/grime from some of the wood areas, then brushed on a layer of the wood stain/sealer.
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I actually like the weathered look, but the wood dries out too much and begins to crack and/or shrink away from neighboring boards, as it's very light/soft wood, not normally used for outdoor stuff like this without treating of some kind, or painting, if it's going to last. I got the stain/sealer last year when I started this part of the trike and should've used it then, but I'd planned on sanding all the wood down nice first, and that just kept getting delayed....

So now I've got about 2/3 of the surfaces at least basically sanded and one coat on there. You can see the difference on the front of the seatbox in this pic, where the right side of the trike (left of the pic) is untouched, weathered, and the left side of the trike is sanded/stained.
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If I'd had my druthers I'd've gotten some either clear sealant or a more amber-ey or redwooddish stain, but this "honey" stain was clearanced for MUCH less than any of the others, so I'll live with the color. ;) It'll probably age darker anyway.


As usual, Yogi and Kirin were bored.
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As a side note, it's about time to retire this cane. It's beginning to crack along the "scale" engravings in it, right at teh curve from it's handle.
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I kinda like this cane, though, so I've been pondering ways to fix it.

Once it actually breaks I could put something over the break, inside and outside the tube, with the same curvature, and gorilla-glue it in place, like I did with a previous cane that snapped down on it's straight area. Just have to find something the right diameter and curvature, that's flexible but strong (probably steel bike tubing). Will likely have to bend it myself to teh right radius, as I doubt anything I already have (except a similar cane) would be a match.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 26 2018 11:33pm

That little change in the seat made a huge difference in comfort. :)

It even made it possible to use it to sit on for my lunch break at work today (the other two chairs in the breakroom were occupied), and it was perfectly comfy. The only issue using it as a seat like this is one must still sit as if riding, so feet on pedals is the only place to put them (maybe I could make foldout footrests for this type of situation, though it's unlikely to come up a lot it might be worth it anyway).


The spaces to either side of the seat were usable to set my drink and stuff on, but I'm clumsy so this isn't a safe option (I'm just as likely to knock them off trying to pick them up as actually grab them). So if I were to add footrests I'd also add some sort of foldout "table" from the handlebar area, probably the bottom of teh "dashboard" I'll eventually get around to building.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by wturber » Mar 27 2018 12:25pm

Regarding the cane ...

How about making a fiber/resin filler to create an internal plug/support? Clean out the inside with rubbing alcohol or other solvent that will fully evaporate. Use a wire brush if you can snake one down there. Clamp/strap the "scale" into place. Mix up some glue (resin, epoxy or even Gorilla Glue) and add in someshredded fiber, fiberglass cloth or even plain cotton cloth patches into a gooey mass and cram it all down into and beyond the the curved section. Once cured, you should have a pretty strong custom fitted internal plug. Even if the glue doesn't bond well to the insides, it should stay in place as reinforcement.
Last edited by wturber on Mar 27 2018 11:26pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 27 2018 8:29pm

That's a good thought.

I can take handfuls of a very abundant natural fiber (already-shed Yogi and Kirin fur), mix it with gorilla glue I already have here, and push the mixture down into the whole curved "hook" area of the cane and let it expand. :)


Realistically, loose dog fur probably wouldnt make the best filler, but I have plenty of other types of stuff that probably would, including various woven cloth types.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by wturber » Mar 27 2018 11:26pm

amberwolf wrote:
Mar 27 2018 8:29pm

Realistically, loose dog fur probably wouldnt make the best filler, but I have plenty of other types of stuff that probably would, including various woven cloth types.
Yeah. I'm thinking oils would be the problem. But old t-shirts etc. might work well. If you have some simply plastic tube, some PVC or maybe some electrical conduit, you could run a test to see how stiff your concoction is.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
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53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Mar 28 2018 12:07am

The trike looks great with the fresh paint and wood stain, really spruced things up a lot and with the hub motor swap too nice job all around. It must be a challenge keeping things running cool during the brutal summer temps you guys have down there, been to Phoenix during summer, yeah it gets a bit hot to say the least.
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 28 2018 11:29pm

The trike/etc doesn't have a problem in the heat, but the dogs and I do. ;)

I have had heat issues with previous bikes, in certain versions, but I think it had more to do with overloading the motor or controller (or both) than with the summer heat itself (which just exacerbated the existing issues).



I suppose if I really wanted to use the dog fur I could wash it first (bundle it up in a sock or something, and stick it in the washer with a load of clothes), but it makes more sense to use existing mesh cloths, as they'll probably be stronger than randomly-ordered strands of fur.

Most likely I'll just test the idea in the actual cane. If it doesn't work, well, I have other canes (that don't have the weakness of the engraving on the surface). This one just looks interesting and happens to already fit just right.



Today I took Yogi and Kirin up to work for more socialization and practice walking together in a distracting but controllable environment. Took about 40 minutes to prep the trailer and trike, putting the crate on the trike, putting the padding mats in the trailer and trike crates, and ensuring all the lights worked, tires ok and aired up fully, etc. Then it took a couple tries to get Kirin into the trike crate, though Yogi went right in just opening the door on the trailer crate.

Once we got going, Kirin settled right down and was fine, while as usual Yogi got all excited and whined and barked at everything that moved. (which since *he* was moving with teh trike, meant barking at pretty much everything).

Power usage seemed extremely high, literally double what it usually would be, before I even reached the end of my street, so I rechecked the tires and found the rigth rear a bit low, aired it up, and ocntinued on. I looked at it at each stop from that point, but it didn't appear to be going down. Power usage didnt change--stayd double.

However, just after I crossed Dunlap, less than a mile into the trip, it went flat in just the distance from the turn at the light to the entrance into the parking lot I have to turn into less than 1/8 mile away, right after crossing Dunlap. Power usage went up drastically as I got closer to the parking lot, and I could feel the way it tilted and rode but there was nowehre to stop and air it up until I got into the lot.

It wouldn't air up anymore, so I thought I might just put more Slime in it, but I couldn't get the valve core out as my tool for that is on the end of a little screwdriver, and won't go into the valve straight enough to reach teh core, without taking the tube off the wheel. Since I had to do that, I just changed teh tube out.

To do that, I couldn't turn the trike on it's side like usual, since Kirin was in the back and the trailer with Yogi was hitched to it. So I "jacked it up" by tilting it on it's side and inserting the cane into the fender frame and pinning it's other end against a curb. This raises the wheel enough to get it out of the fender frame, and so I spent the next few minutes changing the tube out. I found no holes or debris, so it could be a valve issue, but it is more likely a pinhole leak that's just outside the area the slime could reach, or something like that. Could be a hole on the inner circumference like with the other original "sedona" tube I got for these tires.

Anyway, the new one aired up fine, though after airing it up once I deflated it and then put the last of my Slime in it, then reaired it. Finished the ride out and back without further issue.

Power usage after that was not as bad, but still ended up just over 87wh/mile (vs the 51-56 I see for my regular work commute with the CAv3).

Trip stats:
57.8vstart
54.3vrest
50.5vmin

7.281Ah
393.99wh
87.4wh/mile
7.3405ah fwd
0.0590ah regen
0.8% regen
0.036ohms rbatt
-6.1Amin
86.5Amax

4.483miles
20.8mph peak
13.8mph avg
19m 23s triptime

3734miles total odo


Yogi and Kirin had a blast meeting people; Yogi announced himself to the universe repeatedly, and Kirin wanted to eat everything that moved; thankfully there's glass between her and them.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 30 2018 12:49pm

I think it's too late for the cane to do the internal filler reinforcement:
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(see end for more angles)

Just at teh end of my workday yesterday, it failed completely, leaving only a small strip on the side of the curve still attached. Thankfully I wasn't in a position where it was my only support as I placed weight on it, and could transfer quickly to something else. I suspect having to use it to hold up the trike the day before, while changing the tube with Kirin wiggling around in the back of the trike causing constantly changing loading forces on it, probably sent it much further along it's way than if I'd only used it normally.

So today I transferred the grip over to a backup cane (that is just plain aluminum, undecorated other than a couple of reflective stripes I added when I first got it), along with the red rag I ziptie wrapped around the middle to act as a "cork" to secure it in the cane holder on the trike, to prevent it from sliding forward as I ride.

The grip requires a notch in the cane handle end, so it's flat palm support (which hurts a lot less to use than a round grip) can remain parallel to the ground and not end up rotating over time. The original cane had that notch machined in; I ground and filed a matching one into the backup cane, then slipped the grip on just like a bicycle handlebar grip (little soap on the inside, slides on, then when dry it's like glue, but can still be removed by a bit of water soaked into it).
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I'm not sure without a caliper, but I think the broken cane (left) is slightly thinner than the backup (right).
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More angles of break:
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by wturber » Mar 30 2018 5:26pm

Bummer!
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Mar 31 2018 2:49am

I might still go ahead and do it to the backup cane, to see if it helps prevent such failures on it. The specific failure this one had is unlikely to recur, as its' directly caused by the engraving on the cane (all of the original cracks began within the engravings and followed them, before tehy began to merge across teh gaps between).


I'm a lot harder on these things than they were designed for. :/

That's probably true of most things, actually. :oops:

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by wturber » Apr 01 2018 6:59pm

amberwolf wrote:
Mar 31 2018 2:49am
<snip>

I'm a lot harder on these things than they were designed for. :/

That's probably true of most things, actually. :oops:
Hence the large dogs instead of toy poodles ...
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Apr 07 2018 12:54am

:lol: Actually they're more likely to break *me*. (epecially when they're playing rough in the yard and I end up in their path) ;)


Last few days the power usage has been noticeably lower than usual. The only change I'm aware of is the weather--it's been several degrees warmer. Wind hasn't changed patterns, This might affect rolling resistance in tires and in bearings, though I don't know if it's the cause.

Wh/mile had been in the low-mid 50s since changing the CA (closer to mid-60s before), and now it's "suddenly" dropped to the mid-high 40s.

Today's trip is closer to what it had been, but there's a couple of differences. First I had the dog kennel on there (so I could lock groceries/etc inside while I shopped at multiple places). Second, I had a stretch of nearly a mile at 22mph because of a car that wouldn't go around me (plenty of room to do so) but kept tailgating me at 20mph, but falling behind a safe distance when I reached 22mph. (other cars went around both of us, some of them honking behind the car first)

I was in the bike lane, and they were driving half in the bike lane and half in the car lane. I wasn't sure if they weren't going to cause trouble (I didn't see either person in the front seat holding up a phone/camera like some people do, to get a shot of my crazy contraptions), but eventually they just went another direction, once I reached an intersection with a red light. So I think the higher speed both peak and average (and poor aero with the higher speed) is the reason for higher Wh/mile today.

Some ride data, first from today's shopping trip a few miles north and then around to both goodwills near my house, and then from a few days of commuting before that:


57.8v start
53.9v rest
53.8v min


10.76Ah
593.77wh
50.2wh/mi

1.4% regen
0.1561Ah regen
10.917Ah fwd

-6.6A min
86.1A max

22.3mph max
14.5mph avg
48m21s triptime
11.685miles trip
3782miles total odo
0.031ohms rbatt


******************************
last few days trip data

57.8v start
53.3v rest
49.7v min

11.75ah
645.29wh
47.7wh/mi

1.2% regen
0.1465Ah regen
11.906Ah fwd

06.5A min
87.1A max

20.1mph max
14.3mph avg
55m44s triptime
13.375miles
3771miles total odo
0.035ohm rbatt

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Apr 08 2018 8:53pm

Finished the sanding/staining/sealing of the seatbox wood. (there's some areas around the IGH I cna't get to with the sander, and don't have the strength/time to fully sand those areas by hand, so they still look "dirty".
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I also finally cut the rack's metal "grille" off, as I've been planning to for quite a while, to make room for a removable wooden top instead. (looks nicer, thicker and solid for better insulation for whatever is under it in the cargo area, like the dog crate, against the midday sun. Also won't rattle like the metal did).

This gives the option of putting a seat back there, to give my brother rides (at least until his trike is finished). Can also give coworkers rides home or to the bus stop, etc., after we close at night, so they don't have to walk or wait for someone else to pick them up.

I strapped the seat from my brother's trike in there, on top of an old wooden ammo crate, just to see how it works out. It's a very heavy seat (guessing 40-50lbs), so I'll build an actual mountable seat around an old office chair instead, once I get that far.
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More important is the new wooden rack top, as I carry stuff up there a lot more often than I'd need to give anyone a ride. ;) Kirin said it should be more food, or entertainment because she's bored.



Some comparison pics of SB Cruiser and my brother Raine's trike (work in progress)
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Apr 21 2018 1:58am

Crossposted from over here:

Some data about my regen braking: I took a coworker home tonight and he probably weighs at least what I do (hes taller but skinnier), around 180lbs, so add that to the trikes normal mass. On the way to his place I had to take the underpass below the freeway, which is a fairly long steep downhill (for Phoenix); I dont know what hte grade is though. Anyway, I used the electric braking to slow down starting around halfway down, and it took the entire distance to slow nearly to a stop, and then used the mechanical front brake to finish up as I reached the crosswalk line.

The interesting part is that the current back to the battery more than doubled, to -18A (where its usually around -6 to -8A). Meaning the regen side controller was able to produce that much more current than it usually does, compared to the current required to drive the active braking (EABS) on the other side (which I have no way as yet of determining the current it takes to do, without modifying something on the trike).


So Im assuming that the extra energy from the extra mass and/or slope caused greater force against the system keeping the current higher on regen for longer, so that at some point in the curves it was higher than the demand by the EABS so more got fed back into the battery by regen.


Simplest way to determine EABS usage in normal braking is to temporarily cut the wire that parallels the ebrake input on the two controllers, so the regen controller is not connected, then watch for the peak amps during braking. However, the response time of the CA display is slow compared to the changing braking current, so the only sure way to do it is be on a long straight road with no traffic (so I can spend a moment looking at the CA while at speed) then I can accelerate, then while cruising I can reset the CA so peak current will be reset, then brake using just the EABS so the peak positive current will be only that of the EABS. But it will be less accurate as it wont test what current would be while both controllers are braking, which is what the normal situation would be.


Other than that, I could install another CA shunt in between the main shunt and just that controller, then plug in the CA to that one instead of the main one. Or hook up the other CA to that at the same time. Could even add yet another CA shunt between the main one and the regen controller, and monitor both the EABS and the regen currents separately, while doing braking with both (which will be more accurate than having them separately tested, as the actual currents will be different if theyre used separately rather than together).

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Apr 23 2018 1:26am

(pics when I find where I set the camera memory card down)

Broke another axle, possibly while giving my coworker that ride home night before last; it mightve been after taht or on my ride to work the next morning. Not certain exactly when it happened, but by the time I reached work I could feel and even hear the motor rocking back and forth between braking and acceleration. Couldnt do anything about it until today, though (first day of my week off).

This time its the leftside MXUS inboard axle. Oddly, Id expected the clamping dropout to fail to keep it secure, but the broken-off stub was still clamped right where it should be. The outboard dropout was spread apart some, and cracked at the top where Id weld-filled it in some at some point, dont recall, but it mustve not been a good weld all the way thru.

Anyway, I dont know if the crack and spreading on the outboard happened first and the rocking/twisting on the inboard axle broke it, or if an impact or other shock broke the inboard axle first and then allowed the outboard to rock and spread.

Either way, it happened, and has to be fixed, since I dont have replacment axles or stators (and am unlikely to be ablet o make a new axle anytime soon, or a press jig to remove the old and install the new).

I thought about a number of fixes, including just adding new flats to the remaining axle (inboard of its shoulder, as theres only about 1/8 inch of the flatted axle left), or grinding slots into the shoulders and making a matching disc/plate to secure it to the dropouts with.

But I figured first Id try the easiest fix, which was to clamp the broken stub back to the rest of it and weld it back on. Unfortunately I couldnt get enough penetration even on the highest setting, so once the the flats were re-ground and filed, it was weak enough to just snap off again when I tapped it heavily with the file. :(


So next easiest was to grind and file an axle-sized slot in the center of the shoulder (removing the bit of remaining axle stub), cut the broken stub flat and then angle-notch that flat end so the weld could penetrate under/into it and the above slot, then tapped the stub into the slot (Id made it a very tight fit), straightened it, then welded it in.

During the weld I had a wet rag wrapped around the shoulder area, and kept adding water between spots of weld, rather than doing a continuous weld I did ti in two steps, first one end of the slot, then the other. I didnt weld the flats, because Id just hae to regrind them flat anyway.

This time it seems secure.


Fixing the spread/cracked outbaord dropout was easy; just hammered it back to parallel, then welded on high thru the crack and around it. Then I welded thru teh whole fill area. Then turned down a couple notches and surfaced the dropout faces, so I coudl regrind and file those flat and parallel (theyd taken a hammering from the axle).



Even though the inboard clamping dropout had worked as designed, its had a problem of warped nonparallel faces for some time, since the last weldin I did on it a while back. Its also got the bolt for the lcamp pretty far from teh dropout faces, so I rebuilt it to fix both of those.

I used a new piece of metal, only half the thickness of the original clamp plate, but doubled up and welded on high along its edges and in one hole thru the center. THen fit that to the original dropout plate, and welded them up. Drilled new hole thru it for the clamping bolt, as close as I could put it to the dropout face as I could and leave the space for the nut to be turned with a wrench.

Id welded the head fo teh bolt to the old hole, so I wouldnt have to use two wrenches to tighten things up, but I destroyed that end of hte bolt trying to cut the welds so I could move it to the new spot. So I welded the remainder of teh bolt inot the new hole on the forward part of the dropout, so it sticks thru the other hole on the rear part, and can do its clamping thing. However, when I tightened it up to clamp, the bolt sheared at the welded area--I guess the welding destroyed the bolts characteristics that let it work so well before. :/

So, I drilled out the remnants of the broken bolt, and looked thru my bolt stash, but didnt have one thats the same or even really similar. So I used the one most likley to be strongest that was still small enough diameter to fit thru the holes Id made (making new larger ones would require welding the old one sshut first, cuz just expanding the exising ones would mean the new bolt head/nut couldnt be turned with a wrench due to interferenc with the dropout face plate).

Anyhow, even though I was very careful alighing and refacing everything, the axle flats still werent a perfect fit with either inboard or outboard dropouts, so I ended up using shim strips before clamping things down. I also used a torque washer on the outboard dropout, to give a bit more antispin on that end of the axle, for whatever thats worth.


Id stil like to make a torque arm for the shoulders on each end fo the axle thats something like what Justin_LE is working on over here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=93562
or what Buk is working on over here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=93729
but I dunno when Ill be able to get to doing that. For now, its all tight and working, no detectable rocking, etc. Tested out first around the neighborhood, abusing it as much as possible near the house so I could get it back to the house ot fix if I had to. Then after that worked, I took a trip to the grocery store to get some stuff for the week, and its stil al working after that, too.


Well see how it holds up over time.

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Apr 25 2018 2:46am

I forgot to post the pics, so here they are.
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Apr 25 2018 10:39pm

added a rear half of canopy shade
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so now its a two trike bikeport on the back porch
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axle fix still holding fine

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Apr 29 2018 2:10am

Added some rear canopy over the seat and some siderail padding, so I could take Raine a few places while I had my week off (since I havent quite finished his trike, though its nearly there now).
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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » May 20 2018 2:50am

So...we have a breakroom at work that is around 15 x 15 feet, perhaps a bit bigger, but not huge. I park my trike just inside the double swinging doors, along the one wall there isn't anything people access during breaks/lunches. The righthand door will hit the front tire if swung open more htan halfway, and for some reason everyone tends to come in via the righthand door, or both of them, rather than just the lefthand (and no one EVER looks thru the windows in the doors before they push them open). The time clock is on the left side of the left door, inside the room, so only a few feet from the trike. Break table is just to the left of that, refrigerator in diagonally opposite corner to the doors. So if you get up from the table, or turn away from the fridge, you're facing the trike, before you turn toward the door.

However, there are quite a few people that don't even notice the trike is there, at all.

How, exactly, does one not see a big red trike that looks like probably nothing one has ever seen, filling a third of the small room one just walked into?


I've had so many new coworkers be completley surprised when I wheel the trike up to the front door when we leave, if they weren't surprised by me wheeling it out of teh breakroom in the first place--yet, they entered and exited the breakroom at least four times that day (clocking in and out for lunch and in from lunch and out again). Some of them worked for *DAYS* before they noticed it.


I'm sure glad I don't have that problem on the road, or I'd be pancakes long long ago. :lol:

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by amberwolf » Jun 14 2018 1:23am

Hauled a piano home today, using the upgraded Mk IV-1/2 trailer:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94215&p=1387398#p1387398

Image

Image


Trip was pretty short, only about 3 miles north, but I had about four miles of detours getting it home, as I could only safely go around 9-10MPH on most roads (due to surface problems), and around 12MPH max on the good flat stretches (due to the weight making braking distances almost triple what they normally are at 20MPH, but only about 1.5x at the slower speed. Due to the weight shift onto the tongue durign braking, the front wheel lifted just enough that hard braking on the front wheel would shudder/skid the tire, so almost all braking was done by the motors in the rear).

So there were some main road crossings and sections I had to go around because traffic there would be unlikely to let me thru at those low speeds; it'd be unsafe to try.


Because of the low speeds, power usage was almost completely from acceleration/etc, rather than aero drag; I was surprised a bit that it was only 58.6 Wh/mile (vs the 48 I get under normal commuting usage).


57.8v start
53.4v end
52.4v min

649.16wh
58.6wh/mile

11.65Ah
11.866Ah fwd
0.2126Ah regen
1.8% regen

20.8MPH max (empty, on the way to pickup, down the little hill over the canal)
11.1MPH avg
58m37s triptime
10.892miles trip odo
4082miles total odo

-6.8A min
86.5A max

0.028ohm Rbatt

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Re: The SB Cruiser: Amberwolf&Dogman's 2WD CargoTrike&DogCarrier

Post by wturber » Jun 14 2018 2:00am

Awesome!
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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