Marathon Plus Tour, not so flat less...

Second ride after my ordeal with the 2 broken magnesium forks, i thought i would not have more problems for a while, but...after 120 kms ride, something penetrated the tyre and the tube, lucky of me i had the flatless tube from Kenda, so i could, reinflate it and ride safely home. Schwalbe, with your Marathon Plus Tour, ebike certified, you had my trust, but second ride, one flat....

strange indeed. knock on wood thousands of miles here on my marathon and no flat
i do use a mr tuffy tire liner inside- i only ride pavement though - but sometimes there are sharp objects left on the road... still no problems

BiciMad said:

Second ride after my ordeal with the 2 broken magnesium forks, i thought i would not have more problems for a while, but...after 120 kms ride, something penetrated the tyre and the tube, lucky of my i had the flatless tube fro Kenda, so i could, reinflate it and ride safely home. Schwalbe, with your Marathon Plus Tour, ebike certified, you had my trust, but second ride, one flat....

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Ran a couple of Marathon Plus tyres for thousands of miles with no trouble.

I think they tend to be more puncture resistant though, when inflated close to the max of the tyre.

It was a 3,5 cms dark glass, it push through the blue stuff from the Marathons, and it made like a 0.8 cms hole in the tube, which is gone, the hole was to big to repair. I think it might be a bit my fault, because i didn't have them fully inflated, just 40 psi, the minimum, so that might have help to get the humongous shard in.

The object you see in the middle of the hole, it´s a ruber T, to cover the tyre from the inside. Also, what would you put in the hole to cover it from dirt ?

No bike tire is perfect.
Marathon plus have still been the best of all them, in my experience.

I had a flat once, in 3 years of use. The tires stood up to probably 50,000 goathead attacks over the years, some staples, some thumb tacks as well, but it was the goathead that hit it in the sidewall ( i was riding like a jackass in the forest ) that made it flat.. one time!

Find me a more flat proof tire, and i will run it on my bike. So far, these have been the best.. and i've tried nearly every brand.

I belive theses tyres was pretty much the best i could buy to avoid flats, i know it was not perfect, but getting that hole, after just 100 kms, it breaks my heart and my wallet, because the mecanic told that the tyre was almost gone. Btw Neptronix, i think i'm going to copy your signature ( Torque arm & rear hubs :=)

I as about to go out on an urgent errand, when I noticed this sticking out of my Marathon Plus. The tyre might be a Schwalbe Energizer, which is a like a MP for ebikes. I can't remember which was fitted at the time. The tyre was still with full pressure. Big decision: Do I pull it out or risk riding with it?





I opted for pulling it out. It seemed to come ever as I struggled with the pliers. The tyre stayed up and is still with full pressure a month later. I think the nail hit the puncture guard layer and got diverted along the rubber rather than going through, so it's a definite thumbs up to MPs.

The guys from the workshop, sent me the picture of the shard that destroyed my tyre. It was so deep that i couldn't see it from the outside, as big as it is, 1,5 cms . I think it's from the bottom thick part of a 40's beer bottle.

Actually in my experience stuff does go through Marathon Plus tires quite easy, it usually just isn't long enough to actually penetrate. However after many years in Amsterdam as a bicycle repairman i have see many strange things going trough tires, but especially long pyramid shaped pieces of glass can get through Marathon Plus tires.

This is becuase the Marathon and the Plus use the softer compound rubber from Schwalbe, that is why i prefer the harder compound tires inflated to about 4.5 to 6 bar as it seems most pieces of glass cannot puncture that.
Specifically the marathon Dureme, Supreme and Deluxe

Even after 5 years in Amsterdam my Marathon Dureme's have had no punctures and are going strong (not electric tho)

Yeah, Schwalbe does make tires that are better than the pluses.

I'd imagine that the harder compounds don't ride as well though.. is that true?
I know that my marathon pluses had a bit of a stiff ride to them, compared to normal bicycle tires. My Marathon Almotions don't have as stiff of a feel. Yet they're not as puncture proof.

There seems to be a trade off..

I've been riding like 100 miles since the flat, and as weird as it seems, the hole looks smaller. I'm still going to buy loctite glue 3 or something, the one with caucho in it, seems to be the one that fits best vibrations and impact. I'm getting a new marathon plus tour for the back tyre, my schwalbe cruisers seems to be flatening.

If i get 3 flats more on either tyre, i'll be buying Tannus solid rubber tyres, the might not be the best rolling resistance out there, but i won't be stoping or having fear in my heart every time i ride. Rolling resistance it's not so key on a e-bike, pushing your 50 pound bike uphill for a damn flat, it is.

No tire is impervious to damage and the crazy thing is that you can go for years with no trouble and then suffer 3 flats in a week or few days.

Best thing is to become a flat fixing machine and deal with it using head-on preparedness. If I'm riding into the boonies you better believe I'll carry enough stuff to fix and air most any flat. 99% of the time a tube can be patched without removing the wheel from frame. Learned that trick from African kids on youtube.

I use 12v lighting battery which can also run a very small air compressor so I don't even bother with a hand pump. And don't forget some latex or mechanic gloves.

Is it a PITA and trouble to carry and use all that stuff? Sure. But not as bad as being stuck begging snobby bike shop to help fix a flat tire.

The problem with all that fixing gear, it's taking it everywhere, i mean on u, because i commute ( and work...) a lot in the city center, and there, u better tie everything with steel to steel, or i'll be gone in a blink of an eye. I've got a fairly decent theft proof setup, adding more bags with tools or anything, it would be risky, that's why i'm so concernt about flats, i can't be thinking about flats when you have a meeting with a client.

I work in the middle of NYC and note that I said carry "all that stuff" only when heading to the boonies, outskirts, etc.

City center usually means trains and many more options if/when there's a problem.

But hey, don't listen to someone who's been doing this well over 10 years and nearing 40k miles. I'm sure it'll work out exactly as you want...

Mate, thank's your time and opinions. I think your way might be the most pratical for the bicycle, but having a solid tyre in the market, it's worth to look at it. Anyway, if i'm skeptical about the reliability of the ebike for my day to day activities( 2 front forks gone, 1 marathon plus flat first day....), i'll be going back to my dear Vespa Lx 125 3v, with awsome mpg, 1 flat in 12k kms, and sexy looks. It does not get me so fit, and it's waaaay more dangerous, but it does gets me around the city like a Tron bike.

The chances of having a flat on a bycicle are preeetty high, i also drive vans and other vehicles for a company, and we deal with multiple mecanical issues, but flats, it's not one of them, the tyres have been stolen several times, but never puncture, on my 7 yrs on this company. The e-bike needs to deal with flats in a different way than regular bicycles, the weight, the gear, the price, the speed, everything is incremented, and flats hit u in a more serious way, that's why i bitch an all...

Really do not know how you broke 2 front forks, but the flat is just bad luck mate. Like i said, use the roadstar compound schwalbe tires and inflate properly and you will not get more flats then on a Vespa. A Vespa should get way more flats because of the rather large surface hitting the road compared to a bike.

Good luck with your efforts

had my first flat today... after 3000 miles .... not the marathons fault... turns out there was some rubbing between the mr tuffy and the inner tube... this happened near the valve where the ends of the tire liner crossed.it tore tiny hole into my inner tube a bit, but the tire liner was so stuck to it, that it kept pressure .. i had the newer tire liner with round edges(the old version was problematic due to its sharp edge)... tire pressure was always up in the 60psi... wierd... im debating about just not using it at all,, but im worried that'll lose that extra security... fortunately this happened while the bike was parked... had this been on the road, it would have been a huge headaque(especially since i never carry tools to fix it).. i fixed it and installed everything back in again with the tire liner but if it happens again, i'll go without tire liners and see how that goes... in the end i guess nothing is bullet proof...

davec said:

had my first flat today... after 3000 miles .... not the marathons fault... turns out there was some rubbing between the mr tuffy and the inner tube... this happened near the valve where the ends of the tire liner crossed.it tore tiny hole into my inner tube a bit, but the tire liner was so stuck to it, that it kept pressure .. i had the newer tire liner with round edges(the old version was problematic due to its sharp edge)... tire pressure was always up in the 60psi... wierd... im debating about just not using it at all,, but im worried that'll lose that extra security... fortunately this happened while the bike was parked... had this been on the road, it would have been a huge headaque(especially since i never carry tools to fix it).. i fixed it and installed everything back in again with the tire liner but if it happens again, i'll go without tire liners and see how that goes... in the end i guess nothing is bullet proof...

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In the 3000 miles, have you seen any evidence that anything has made its way through the tire, to the tire liner?

In the end it comes down to bad luck. The MPT's have gone across country without a flat, but some people can't get across town on em. As a bike mechanic I've seen failures from large pieces of glass or sharp metal shards that simply cut right through. There's no bicycle tire that is resistant to something sharp hitting at just the right angle.

I would advise against liners, especially if one is not running near-ish max pressure. Running lower pressure allows for friction between the tire, liner and tube. At higher pressure stuff moves around less so there's less chance for friction failure. The lower your pressure the more flat prone the tire, in general. For additional puncture protection I prefer to run Stans No Tubes sealant in my tubes. I despise thorn resistant tubes, they reduce your air volume (and thus comfort) and are more prone to friction failures.

I have successfully had Schwalbe warranty a fairly new, severely cut MPT tire for a customer.

In the 3000 miles, have you seen any evidence that anything has made its way through the tire, to the tire liner?

nope...the tires are solid. i inspected my tire and there was nothing. no hole, no thorn, puncture.. nothing... ill take a pic when i get a chance...the area of rupture on the inner tube had a U shape stamp that resembled the ends of the tire liner and it was right where they crossed... so it seems some have used tire liners over 10k miles and had no issues, and some say not to use them at all... i do agree with the comments above... the max psi on this tire is 70 - i ran 60 so maybe ill try to use 65... either way if it happens again i'll ditch the liners and go solo and carry an emergency toolkit in my frame bag(i think the schwalbe already have liners built in them)... and as for sharp glass or nails i doubt there's much that can help. i ride on pavement only and sometimes if there is no traffic ill take the whole lane to get around all the crap at the edge of the road

I have an idea! A person quoted: There's no bicycle tire that is resistant to something sharp hitting at just the right angle. Well that's my experiment, to help stop my flats, & wonder if it is possible?

I also understand the difficulties of having flats, & that tire liners affect & increase rolling resistance to some extent, but must be much better than solid rubber tires for e-bikes.

I fail to see the market put out a metal alloy liner to stops glass shards, metal & thorns from penetrating air tubes, but I did find a patent. & i mean a liner that protects the side walls also. One of my theories is that the reason road debris puncture through liners is they are not hard enough, just like one rock scratches another of less hardness. Puncture guard thickness also play a partial roll in keeping debris away, but each revolution drives the object deeper.

So I'm doing some tests with thin aluminum that is .007 to .005 thickness which is 1 to 1.5x thick as printing paper. & I even wonder if stainless steel would be ideal to protect our tubes, since its harder? Just tape the edges of the alloy & put in a rubber guard to protect the tube from the edges. Anybody have any opinions?

In combination with schwalbe puncture guard tire it should make for the most bullet proof puncture resistance.

I have a e-bike with 90 pound of batteries on the rear & I don't like to fix flats, but I have devised a way to fix flats on the open road with a portable lightweight jack. I want to run my tires at 80 psi to compensate for the high amount of weight my bike carries.

orange streak said:

So I'm doing some tests with thin aluminum that is .007 to .005 thickness which is 1 to 1.5x thick as printing paper. & I even wonder if stainless steel would be ideal to protect our tubes, since its harder? Just tape the edges of the alloy & put in a rubber guard to protect the tube from the edges. Anybody have any opinions?

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Within a few miles, the sheet metal will be broken into sharp fragments that not only won't protect against punctures, but will rapidly go to work causing punctures. If sheet metal belts had any use, they'd be in tires already.

Tires that are worth riding on can't protect against everything. I decided a while back that Marathon Pluses are not worth it to me. If I can get approximately equal demonstrated protection from Panaracer RiBMos with less weight, less rolling resistance, much nicer ride quality, better traction, and longer wear, at a lower cost... then why not?

I can't explain why RiBMo seems to work as well as, or better than, heavy awful tires like Schwalbe Plus anything, Continental Plus anything, Specialized Armadillo or Flak Jacket anything, etc., but after many thousands of miles on several different bikes, I'm convinced. You don't have to suffer crappy tires to get puncture protection.

Also, fixing the occasional flat is better than riding on awful tires. Flatless foam tires have been around forever; you don't want them. They represent the utmost example of sacrificing literally everything good about a tire just to prevent the possibility of getting a puncture.

Ykick said:

I work in the middle of NYC ....

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and your profile says San Diego ... that is one heck of a commute on an E-bike

BiciMad said:

Mate, thank's your time and opinions. I think your way might be the most pratical for the bicycle, but having a solid tyre in the market, it's worth to look at it. Anyway, if i'm skeptical about the reliability of the ebike for my day to day activities( 2 front forks gone, 1 marathon plus flat first day....), i'll be going back to my dear Vespa Lx 125 3v, with awsome mpg, 1 flat in 12k kms, and sexy looks. It does not get me so fit, and it's waaaay more dangerous, but it does gets me around the city like a Tron bike.

The chances of having a flat on a bycicle are preeetty high, i also drive vans and other vehicles for a company, and we deal with multiple mecanical issues, but flats, it's not one of them, the tyres have been stolen several times, but never puncture, on my 7 yrs on this company. The e-bike needs to deal with flats in a different way than regular bicycles, the weight, the gear, the price, the speed, everything is incremented, and flats hit u in a more serious way, that's why i bitch an all...

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Forget the pedalist type ebike and build some reliable electric transportation. Use motorcycle tires along with enough power to get away from the side of the road where it's not safe for you or tires. You must be building some really crappy transportation to have broken forks, and to view a fume spewing war supporting noise polluting poor handling extremely low performance Vespa as a better form of transportation in any way shape or form. Since I made the switch away from bicycle tires 8 years ago, I've had one flat (picked up a screw from a construction site I rode near), but I was able to ride it a few miles home without issue albeit more slowly and cautiously. I've worn out a few $20 tires though.

First, this thread is 2+ years old. Keep that in mind when replying.

Second - tire liners cause holes. The tire liner wore into Dave's tube.

I know, it happened to me. 3 hours into a 4 hour ride, I started slowly loosing pressure till the tire would hold nothing at all. Boy was I pissed to learn my tire liner had caused a Flat. Took them straight back.

I have been using slime tubes. Rode on a huge nail for several days before I noticed it. Strong tires, and a bit of sealant can go a long way.

davec said:

had my first flat today... after 3000 miles .... not the marathons fault... turns out there was some rubbing between the mr tuffy and the inner tube... this happened near the valve where the ends of the tire liner crossed.it tore tiny hole into my inner tube a bit, but the tire liner was so stuck to it, that it kept pressure .. i had the newer tire liner with round edges(the old version was problematic due to its sharp edge)... tire pressure was always up in the 60psi... wierd... im debating about just not using it at all,, but im worried that'll lose that extra security... fortunately this happened while the bike was parked... had this been on the road, it would have been a huge headaque(especially since i never carry tools to fix it).. i fixed it and installed everything back in again with the tire liner but if it happens again, i'll go without tire liners and see how that goes... in the end i guess nothing is bullet proof...

Click to expand...