Factory changes for the Q100C .

Get all your technical information about electric bikes here.
User avatar
chas58   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 707
Joined: Mar 19 2013 4:05pm
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by chas58 » Jun 25 2015 12:37pm

motomech wrote:
Take the original 328, which we haven't looked at closely. I have counted the gears for an overall ratio of 10.8 to 1 and that ratio corresponds very well with the Ebike CA sim. which shows a no-load motor speed of 285 rpm @ 36 V.
I'm confused, maybe you can help me understand. You are stating the simulator shows no-load 285rpm at 36v

The simulator below shows:
- No load speed of 385
- Load speed of 291 (36v17a)

What am I missing?
Attachments
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (95.76 KiB) Viewed 1780 times
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3366
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by motomech » Jun 25 2015 2:23pm

docnjoj wrote:
motomech wrote:
docnjoj wrote:So is there a way to interchange the 201 motor innards with the 260 innards. ie. put the 201 gears and motor into the 260 (100H) case? My 100H has poor startup torque at 44 volts nominal even in a 20 inch wheel.
otherDoc
That doesn't seem right to me. Which controller are you using now?
Try the Elifebike 9-FET 500W (19A) controller and hold on.
And if you are using 12S Lipo, that controller has a rock solid LVC @ 42 V that I have tested repeatedly.
With my Turnigy 20C, that means the cells have just passed thru 3.7V and are just starting to get scrambled.
Perfect!
I had been using the kv63/65 which it think is a 6 FET. Not great torque on startup. I have been attempting to put on an S12S but have run into startup difficulties of a different kind. I have 3 of them and an LCD-1 and LCD-3. I'll have to do a bit of swap and switch to get one that gives the torque and starts reliably. I could solder the 6-Fet shunt but with all these controllers around I should be able to find a good combo. Otherwise, perhaps order a 201 rpm.
otherDoc
I spent a lot or time and money trying to make the sine wave controllers from BMS Battery work, both SO6S and the S12S.
I wanted them to work, I really did.
But in the end, no go.
They just will not function correct with the Lipo chemistry. They won't properly read the initial Voltage and things go downhill from there.
Not BMS Battery's fault, they weren't designed to work with Lipo.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3366
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by motomech » Jun 25 2015 3:54pm

chas58 wrote:
motomech wrote:
Take the original 328, which we haven't looked at closely. I have counted the gears for an overall ratio of 10.8 to 1 and that ratio corresponds very well with the Ebike CA sim. which shows a no-load motor speed of 285 rpm @ 36 V.
I'm confused, maybe you can help me understand. You are stating the simulator shows no-load 285rpm at 36v

The simulator below shows:
- No load speed of 385
- Load speed of 291 (36v17a)

What am I missing?
It's simple really.
I used a 15A controller, which is more representive of what was/is used with the majority on Cute builds.
Remember, a 328 in a big wheel is current limited, not rpm limited.
Note that the red plot (power) extends past the no-load point before it takes a dive.
It is this rather tippy balance @ the no-load point that makes running a small, high-speed, motor in a big wheel attractive(highest top speed for motor size, ability of rider to add significant speed, as little as 100 Watts will take the top speed from 22.5 mph to 25 mph!). But the other edge of the sword is reduced efficiency, controller trying to run max. and greater ease of the motor falling into the dreaded >50% of max rpm on hills).
I'm not that fit rider on a road bike, so my attempt to use mini's with a reduction ratio that gives the highest road speed took a different tack.
Smaller wheels weighted the compromise a bit.
Larger, less prone to get very hot controllers acted as a "stop-gap" fix, not really getting at the root of the problem.
And finally, 2WD, which, once all the details were worked out, worked pretty well. More or less like a 290 rpm BPM on 30 Amps, just not as powerful and more complicated :roll:
Still, getting a mini powered(even two of them)Ebike on 12S up to 28 mph was rather intoxicating.
But after a while, the speed thrill wears off and that extra 3 or 4 mph just doesn't seem worth the trouble.
Right now, the 2WD is being converted to 201's to cruise the sandy roads around the beach area I'm at.
But I think my ultimate Q100 powered 2WD is going to be a 260H in frt. and a (yet to be built)260 CST rear.
That is my motivation of looking at the possibilites of Q100 parts interchangeability
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by dakh » Jun 25 2015 9:23pm

motomech wrote:The burning question for me is, will the 260 gears work with the CST.
Thanks for your persistence in figuring this stuff out! I'm not sure I understand the rest of the musings here, was this decided one way or another?

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3366
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by motomech » Jun 25 2015 11:05pm

dakh wrote:
motomech wrote:The burning question for me is, will the 260 gears work with the CST.
Thanks for your persistence in figuring this stuff out! I'm not sure I understand the rest of the musings here, was this decided one way or another?
I think so, both the H and CST models fall into the group of the 8T motor shaft, so the gears should swap.
I am just hesitent to say yes because I have not physically ckéd.
My 260 H is my daily transpo.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by dakh » Jun 26 2015 1:18am

motomech wrote:
dakh wrote:
motomech wrote:The burning question for me is, will the 260 gears work with the CST.
Thanks for your persistence in figuring this stuff out! I'm not sure I understand the rest of the musings here, was this decided one way or another?
I think so, both the H and CST models fall into the group of the 8T motor shaft, so the gears should swap.
I am just hesitent to say yes because I have not physically ckéd.
My 260 H is my daily transpo.

I don't mind giving it a try. So I order the 260 H and whatever CST to see if that works out right?

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3366
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by motomech » Jun 26 2015 8:59am

Yes, What you order depends on what you want the other motor to be.

options;

201 H, frt.--201 gears in 260 H, frt

or

201 H, rear--201 gears in 260 H, rear(free wheel type)

or

328 H, frt--328 gears in 260 H, frt.

or

328 H, rear--328 gears in 260 H, rear (free wheel type).

Remember, 201 gears in wheels 24"or larger
328 gears in 24 "wheels and smaller.

You will need a hand-held impact driver and a quality #2 Phillips bit.

Let us know how it works out.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by dakh » Jun 26 2015 5:46pm

Um, I don't think I understand. I thought the idea is to get whatever gearing in CST rear hub body and swap 260 gearing from a front H hub, no? If that's the case I'd probably go for a 201 CST rear (since 201 works well enough for me after all, I could just use that hub in another build if gear swap doesn't work out).

Thanks again for the hand-holding! :)

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3366
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by motomech » Jun 26 2015 7:00pm

Well, correct if I'm wrong, but what you have now is is the standard Q100 201(from which, nothing can be used).
Nobody sells 260 gears, so you need to buy a 260 H motor.
And you need a CST motor, which you will go with a 201 CST.
So, if all goes to plan, you will simply swap the two gear-set(Including the ring gears).
And you will have a 260 CST and a 201 H Frt.
A 201 H frt. is what I would choose too, as it would be the most useful, or easiest to sell.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by dakh » Jun 26 2015 7:32pm

Ah ok so I got it right, just got lost in all the options. I'll also get a 260 Q100H rear drive (not CST) while I'm at it, just in case.

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by dakh » Jun 30 2015 9:41pm

Well, made orders with bmsbattery and elifebike over the weekend and haven't heard a peep from them yet. Maybe they're shipped, maybe not.

d8veh   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5515
Joined: Dec 10 2010 10:45am
Location: Telford

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by d8veh » Jul 01 2015 6:07am

You often don't get acknowledgements. For BMSB, login and have a look at "my orders" you can see what's happening there. If you ordered a battery or motor wheel/kit, expect about ten days before it changes to QC. Shipping happens very soon after. Controllers on their own and stuff like that is much quicker.
Last edited by d8veh on Jul 02 2015 4:05am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by dakh » Jul 01 2015 9:34pm

Ok thanks d8veh, I guess I got lucky it's in QC already at BMSB and elifebike already shipped!

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by dakh » Jul 16 2015 6:55pm

Well well well. First FedEx messed up and had my bmsbattery order stuck somewhere for a week, now I finally got the order and instead of 260RPM motors they shipped 201RPM. So I can't report what gearing they got until this gets resolved :roll:

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by dakh » Jul 16 2015 7:08pm

Haha, "Jack" from BMSB was responding to chat but his only response is "email to jack@bmsb". We'll see where this goes but not great so far.

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by dakh » Jul 17 2015 12:19pm

Anyone else got experience dealing with these guys? They are very apologetic but all they offered me is some undisclosed discount on future orders. So I just spent $500 and got one motor that I actually wanted and a bunch more I done't have any use for. Telling them that basically made them stop responding.

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3366
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by motomech » Jul 17 2015 1:07pm

Contest the order with Pay Pal.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by dakh » Jul 17 2015 3:30pm

motomech wrote:Contest the order with Pay Pal.
Totally forgot about that part, thank you!

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by dakh » Jul 17 2015 8:55pm

They're offering a whopping 8% discount for me to go ahead and purchase AGAIN the stuff that I already paid for to begin with. Looked it up and PayPal will have me pay for return shipping of those 2 motors back to them so returning won't make much sense.

Bottom line is looks like I'll just have to find another place to buy those motors from, sell 201RPM motors in classifieds here and move on.

User avatar
Alan B   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7728
Joined: Sep 11 2010 7:43am
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, USA
Contact:

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by Alan B » Jul 17 2015 9:08pm

Where are all the places these motors can be purchased? It would be good to have a list somewhere.

knutselmaaster   100 W

100 W
Posts: 281
Joined: Apr 05 2014 6:50am
Location: near Paris, France

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by knutselmaaster » Jul 18 2015 2:28am

Yes an alternative for bmsbattery.com would be great.
Their service is terrible.
I believe we all have similar experiences with them :(

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3366
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C (Cassette version).

Post by motomech » Jul 18 2015 7:22am

Elifebike and Greenbikekit are the other two sources.
Each vendor uses different nomenclature and offers a slightly different line-up of available versions
I will do up a cross-reference list and post it in a new thread.
I was under the impression that BMS Battery has been providing decent service for the last couple of months, but they seem to have really started to back-slide.
Time to black-list them here.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C .

Post by dakh » Jul 20 2015 6:30pm

Need some feedback on bmsb deal. They tried hard to get me to buy a couple more motors but after a few iterations I simply told them they're offering to fix their mistake at my expense and that's not going to work, I'll just take my business elsewhere. Their next message is, quote They are the same motors ,just the different from RPM 201 and 260,but do not affect the use. Can you tell me how do you want to deal with?. What's the common industry practice? I'm about to ask them to eat shipping on one extra 260RPM motor, which is still not going to "make me whole" but at least it's something. On the other hand the whole bickering back and force deal makes me want to just flip the bozo bit on them and move on.

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3366
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C .

Post by motomech » Jul 20 2015 7:32pm

How 'bout an update.
What do you have now, what is coming and what do you want to end up with?

The difference between the 201 and 260 on a given battery is about 2 mph.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

User avatar
dakh   100 W

100 W
Posts: 119
Joined: Apr 06 2015 3:33pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Factory changes for the Q100C .

Post by dakh » Jul 21 2015 1:27am

motomech wrote:How 'bout an update.
What do you have now, what is coming and what do you want to end up with?

The difference between the 201 and 260 on a given battery is about 2 mph.
Oh yea, sorry. I ordered 201RPM CST, and two 260RPM (one front, one non-CST rear). They sent all 3 being 201RPM. I want at least one 260 just so I can get the first hand experience of the difference and also confirm (or not) that one can swap parts between them.

Post Reply