Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Get all your technical information about electric bikes here.
User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7425
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Doctorbass » Oct 27 2008 10:36pm

like you already know, my old switch turned into plasma few days after updating to 100V 90A.. so i decided to get the BEST solution i can get: The New 500A 320VDC Kilovac contactor !

I bough 3 of them to rebuilt a totally new plasma proof Serie/Parallel switch!

They have the special coil econimozer that is a circuit that reduce the hold current from 12W to 1.7W !!

They are Aerospace grade.. when i'll plan to make a flying electric bike... 8) :mrgreen: i'm jocking...!


Doc
Attachments
Now 3_1024x768.jpg
Before.. oupss! cheap 4PDT 20A china switch
Now 3_1024x768.jpg (92.73 KiB) Viewed 1855 times
DSCN4828_800x600.jpg
The new KILOVAC EV200 500A 320VDC scealed/presurized contactor!
DSCN4828_800x600.jpg (91.1 KiB) Viewed 5331 times
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

User avatar
RLT   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 680
Joined: Oct 02 2007 6:47pm
Location: Ruidoso, NM; USA
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by RLT » Oct 28 2008 12:11am

So, Doc... Where do you get them and how much do they cost?

frodus   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 793
Joined: Mar 03 2008 2:24pm
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by frodus » Oct 28 2008 12:40am

there's a place near me that I can get em for like 120 USD... got mine a few months back (2 of em) for 100 USD. Great contactors.

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12911
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by fechter » Oct 28 2008 8:42am

Nice!
How much current/voltage does the coil take?
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

frodus   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 793
Joined: Mar 03 2008 2:24pm
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by frodus » Oct 28 2008 10:43am

Wow, westguarde still has them for 99 bucks a pop!!!! nice!
http://www.wesgarde.com/newproduct_Kilivac.shtml

500+A carry, 2000A interrupt at 320VDC (operating voltage 12-900VDC)
Built-in coil economizer – only 1.7W hold power @ 12VDC and it limits back EMF to 0V.
Hermetically sealed.
Coil voltage for the EV200 AAANA is 9-36VDC
over 50,000 cycles if you precharge.
No back emf diode needed.

http://cafeelectric.com/downloads/ev200.pdf

User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7425
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Doctorbass » Oct 28 2008 12:42pm

I got 2 of mine at 105$can each from an Ontario supplyer (Wesgarde) and the third from ebay at 75$.

Hello Stephane,
2 pcs EV200AAANA @ $105.00 ea = $210.00
GST = 10.50
Shipping& Handling = $15.00
Total $235.50
Thankyou

Diana Jentas
[DJentas@wesgarde.com]
Sales Rep
Wes-Garde Components
http://www.wesgarde.com


Also, The LEV100 is cheaper 64.50$ can and can take 100A

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

northernmike   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 708
Joined: Dec 08 2008 8:36pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by northernmike » Jan 04 2009 5:29pm

Hi folks.

I am COMPLETELY new to this, please bear with my ignorance..

What are these switches used for, exactly? Is it to provide disconnecting means between the battery and controller?

User avatar
Jozzer   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1069
Joined: Apr 19 2007 8:32am
Location: Swindon UK
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Jozzer » Jan 04 2009 7:49pm

Lol Doc, I just fitted one of those to the 144v 500A TTX01 motorbike, what are you doing with that on an Ebike:P

Nice small contactors huh? Half the size and weight of the one on my Aprilia, and half the current needed to switch it too!
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

ohyea   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 12
Joined: Sep 16 2008 7:11pm

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by ohyea » Jan 04 2009 9:44pm

Doc,
whats the coil voltage? (avail with 12v dc coils???) What do you think it can switch for current and hold continuous at 100v? at 14.4?

User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7425
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Doctorbass » Jan 04 2009 10:42pm

It' s good to hear from you Jozzer! 8)

I just bought and installed 3 of those on my electric bike to switch from parallel to serie with my two 50V 23Ah pack.
They replace the common serie/parallel (3pdt switch) like the Allbright. see this topic: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... el#p111265

The plan this summer is to have a 4 electric speed!!.. i'll use 50V or 100V (and that will allow me to charge both pack in parallel without any disconnect with my 1500W portable charger :twisted:

Also, i plan to add a 3PDT relay that i've bought on ebay to switch the X5 motor winding from WYE to DELTA and to get a 1.73 ratio.. so instead of being limited in speed at 100V with my 5305 to around 75kph.. i'll reach to around 95-100kph at full current full volt :twisted:

I also want to test that in the 1/4 miles drag lane!

This idea of switching the winding while accelerating to get more high end acceleration.. you know.. just when the back emf is close to the max voltage at full throttle and that your acceleration become to decrease?...

This idea is similar to the Killacycle is using two motor that are switched from serie to parallel to give it a kickdown at half speed...

so with serie/parallel and WYE/DELTA.. i'll get 4 combinaisons to test :twisted:


Image
Image

Doc
Last edited by Doctorbass on Jan 04 2009 10:59pm, edited 1 time in total.
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7425
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Doctorbass » Jan 04 2009 10:59pm

ohyea wrote:Doc,
whats the coil voltage? (avail with 12v dc coils???) What do you think it can switch for current and hold continuous at 100v? at 14.4?

These contactor are the cream de la cream!

they are aerostapce grade and have no problem with arc blowout.. they can endure 500A switch.. but they are rated 250A at 900VDC and 500 at 320VDC make or brake!!!

Their coil take from around 10V to 36V .. they have a circuit inside that adjust the right current to hold the contact and to minimize the current consumption as low as 1.7W !! to hold max current!! :mrgreen:

Carrying a continuous current of 500 Amps with a 2000 Amp interrupt rating; the hermetically sealed case allows operation in explosive and harsh environments. The EV200 has a built in coil economizer offering a low hold current of 1.7W @ 12VDC and limits back EMF to zero. A 9-36 VDC coil range and diode protection come as standard features. Other coil ranges available. their brake contact capability is 208 000W :twisted:

http://cafeelectric.com/downloads/ev200.pdf

They also have the EV100 lower current.

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

ohyea   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 12
Joined: Sep 16 2008 7:11pm

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by ohyea » Jan 05 2009 1:29am

wow, safe to say you could have gotten by with the 100's it looks like! I need one to parallel my a123 pack to my Headway pack.

User avatar
shinyballs   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 318
Joined: Sep 29 2007 2:43am
Location: WA, USA

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by shinyballs » Jan 29 2009 1:23am

Super switch! but I cannot fathom spending that much...
My low cost switch(plug) will do for me, capable of handling 90A. Used in conjunction with precharge resistor separately wired to key switch.

stuff used:
- four pairs 45 Amp Contacts and housing
- 12awg wire in pairs(8awg equivalent)
- Powerpole Pak outer shell
- hair band :lol:
Attachments
unplug.jpg
unplug.jpg (92.35 KiB) Viewed 4067 times
plugged.jpg
plugged.jpg (115.32 KiB) Viewed 4068 times
Sale section etiquette, pls be courteous to other members, if you know of a better deal or do not agree with the sale price, do not shove links to similar products being sold by someone else in another member's post.. it's just not nice. If you suspect a scam pls FLAG the thread for moderation and it will be checked out... i know this is a tough one to call but put yourself in the seller's shoes and imagine how you would like it.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=25446

User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7425
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Doctorbass » Jan 29 2009 12:26pm

shinyballs that's a nice option too.

Mine is when i need to change while runing so i need something fast!

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

User avatar
TPA   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 917
Joined: Jul 16 2008 1:35pm
Location: Beaumont, Texas

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by TPA » Jan 29 2009 1:29pm

.
.
.
The Police in your area must all be totally blind! :twisted: :lol:
.
.
.

Doctorbass wrote:
Image

Doc
My Ebike is built with a hub motor purchased from www.ebikes.ca
It has performed flawlessly since it was installed. I cannot
recommend the professional folks there enough.

User avatar
shinyballs   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 318
Joined: Sep 29 2007 2:43am
Location: WA, USA

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by shinyballs » Jan 29 2009 2:21pm

Show the Alternative Fuel tech! How will the masses understand, learn if
we try to hide it? yesterday, i rode side by side with a cop car going 30mph, no flashing lights.. and this is not the first time.
I'm not afraid to show my shit, do you?

btw, except speeding a bit sometimes, I always obey traffic rules and regulations.
Attachments
Copy of DSCF0013 copy.jpg
1,184Wh of K2 LiFePo4 inside
Copy of DSCF0013 copy.jpg (38.25 KiB) Viewed 3115 times
Sale section etiquette, pls be courteous to other members, if you know of a better deal or do not agree with the sale price, do not shove links to similar products being sold by someone else in another member's post.. it's just not nice. If you suspect a scam pls FLAG the thread for moderation and it will be checked out... i know this is a tough one to call but put yourself in the seller's shoes and imagine how you would like it.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=25446

User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7425
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Doctorbass » Jan 29 2009 4:41pm

:twisted:

That's why i use a cover to hide these "mad scientist" connections !!.. and also to avoid rain/snow to reach them

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

User avatar
CGameProgrammer   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 645
Joined: Mar 30 2007 7:26pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by CGameProgrammer » Feb 17 2009 3:04am

Hate to sound like a newbie but I've never understood how contactors are used. Can someone explain it? Like, what are the functions of the three Doctorbass is using? And is there a physical switch on the contactor (like a lever or pushbutton) or do you wire a separate switch in with the contactor somehow?

User avatar
TylerDurden   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7177
Joined: Jan 04 2007 5:50pm
Location: Wear the fox hat.
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by TylerDurden » Feb 17 2009 8:27am

Contactors are just big relays: a lower-power coil electromagnetically closes a higher-power switch.

Typically, contactors are used to connect a drive pack to a controller, so the system has an on/off switch for the high power section.
Precharging2b.jpg
typical application
Precharging2b.jpg (17.5 KiB) Viewed 2981 times
Doc is using contactors to switch portions of his drive-pack from parallel to series.
Image
(Coil supply & switches not illustrated.)
CGameProgrammer wrote:Hate to sound like a newbie but I've never understood how contactors are used. Can someone explain it? Like, what are the functions of the three Doctorbass is using? And is there a physical switch on the contactor (like a lever or pushbutton) or do you wire a separate switch in with the contactor somehow?
Have a Nice Day,

TD

Image
___________________________________________________________

FYI: Adding pictures?

Bored?... take a crack at the unanswered posts

Please post your Watts-at-speed in the survey.



Image

User avatar
CGameProgrammer   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 645
Joined: Mar 30 2007 7:26pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by CGameProgrammer » Feb 17 2009 1:59pm

Now I understand Doc's wiring diagram, but am clueless regarding your circuit diagram, Tyler. Why is the keyswitch in parallel? And why is the diode and killswitch where you placed them? I read the wikipedia article on contactors and now understand a small amout of power is used to electromagnetically close the main switch in the contactor, but I would think you'd put a keyswitch and killswitch in series along a 12VDC line from a DC-DC converter (or whatever) and have that go to the coil input. I'm assuming there is just one positive and one negative lead for the coil, or is it more complicated than that?

EDIT: Well after further thought, I now see the keyswitch needs to be closed for the coil circuit to close, but I still don't know why you felt it had to be done that way or what the resistor by the keyswitch is for.

User avatar
GGoodrum   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2908
Joined: Sep 20 2007 2:03pm
Location: South Orange County, CA
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by GGoodrum » Feb 17 2009 3:25pm

CGameProgrammer wrote:EDIT: Well after further thought, I now see the keyswitch needs to be closed for the coil circuit to close, but I still don't know why you felt it had to be done that way or what the resistor by the keyswitch is for.
The keyswitch and the resistor will also pre-charge the big caps in the controller so that you don't get the huge "pop" when the main power is connected. For any setup of 72V, or higher, I think this is a great idea. I can't tell you how many sets of connectors I've fried on my 72V/5304 setups, before adding a small pushbutton with a resistor to precharge the caps.

-- Gary

User avatar
XRuss   10 W

10 W
Posts: 69
Joined: Feb 17 2009 6:33pm

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by XRuss » Feb 17 2009 7:12pm

Gary, Re your adding a small pushbutton switch with resister to precharge the caps.

1. For a 36v 600w hub, what should the rating of the PB swith be?

2. Is a 1k 5w resister correct for a 35a controler?

3. I am using a enclosed switch so don't see the flash, so, how long need the circuit be closed to charge the cap?Thanks Gary. I'm living and learing. Fooling with the wires is almost as much fun as riding the Ebike. Tks again......

User avatar
TylerDurden   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7177
Joined: Jan 04 2007 5:50pm
Location: Wear the fox hat.
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by TylerDurden » Feb 19 2009 8:50am

The 1k 5W resistor should be more than adequate (plenty of headroom if you upgrade to higher voltage ).

The precharge switch can be small, since the resistor is limiting current.

It should only take a second to precharge the caps.
Have a Nice Day,

TD

Image
___________________________________________________________

FYI: Adding pictures?

Bored?... take a crack at the unanswered posts

Please post your Watts-at-speed in the survey.



Image

User avatar
steveo   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1761
Joined: Oct 06 2007 3:07pm
Location: Woodbridge, Ontario

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by steveo » Apr 24 2010 11:41pm



thanks doc!!... i finally put it on my bike...

i need to find a way to insulate the contract to avoid someone getting zapped!

Doc... how do you power the contactors if you don't mind me asking?... do you use a seperate battery?

-steveo
Repair Thread
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=27170
Hub Monster bike ~ 24s7p A123 15.4ah/18kv Six Phase Motor/Dual Max-E Adapttos/32kw~42.91Hp/Est 140LBS
X6 Kmx Trike ~ 24s4p 20ah/X6 MHM 602/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/20Kw~26.82Hp/Est 120LBS ~SOLD~
Lightening rods bike ~ 18s2p 10ah/1500w Inrunner/Infinion EB312 IRFB4110/2KW~2.68hp/Est 60LBS
EV Outboard ~ 12s8p 40ah/5KW GM Inrunner/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/18Hp Evinrude Drive/Est 100lbs
http://www.youtube.com/user/trdfreak03

User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7425
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Doctorbass » Apr 26 2010 3:54pm

steveo wrote:

thanks doc!!... i finally put it on my bike...

i need to find a way to insulate the contract to avoid someone getting zapped!

Doc... how do you power the contactors if you don't mind me asking?... do you use a seperate battery?

-steveo
I'm using a old LCD monitor power supply as a DC-Dc.

It' s a 12V 4A switching that normally take 100-240Vac but i discovered two years ago that some of them acept DC current at input !! some can take from as low as 20Vdc only!!

so that make you a cheap dc-dc that can take any voltage from 20 to 240V ac or dc !!

you can also buy some from ebay at 9.99$ that are rated 12V 4.5 A. they generally all work!

if one dont work.. you can try reversing the polarity at the AC input.. sometime it only can take one polarity cause it's dc and not AC at input.

sumarry: many simple AC switching power supply adaptor can work as Dc-Dc !!

since these Ev200 can take between 9 to 36V DC input you can use ant of these adaptor that have between 12 to 24VDC.. they will work.

I know that many laptop psu that have like 18 to 20Vdc output generally work fine for that too.

You only need to ensure that the inruswh current when the contactor energize can be supplyed correctly. and that the psu have at least 4 or 5A output for that. You can also add a capactitor in parallel at the output to help for the inrush current of the contactors.

My actual mongoose work fine with a 4A 12V external psu from LCD monitor connected with 50 or 100Vdc on my konions.

Doc

I hope that help!
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

Post Reply