Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

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steveo   1 MW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by steveo » Apr 26 2010 4:24pm

Doctorbass wrote:
steveo wrote:

thanks doc!!... i finally put it on my bike...

i need to find a way to insulate the contract to avoid someone getting zapped!

Doc... how do you power the contactors if you don't mind me asking?... do you use a seperate battery?

-steveo
I'm using a old LCD monitor power supply as a DC-Dc.

It' s a 12V 4A switching that normally take 100-240Vac but i discovered two years ago that some of them acept DC current at input !! some can take from as low as 20Vdc only!!

so that make you a cheap dc-dc that can take any voltage from 20 to 240V ac or dc !!

you can also buy some from ebay at 9.99$ that are rated 12V 4.5 A. they generally all work!

if one dont work.. you can try reversing the polarity at the AC input.. sometime it only can take one polarity cause it's dc and not AC at input.

sumarry: many simple AC switching power supply adaptor can work as Dc-Dc !!

since these Ev200 can take between 9 to 36V DC input you can use ant of these adaptor that have between 12 to 24VDC.. they will work.

I know that many laptop psu that have like 18 to 20Vdc output generally work fine for that too.

You only need to ensure that the inruswh current when the contactor energize can be supplyed correctly. and that the psu have at least 4 or 5A output for that. You can also add a capactitor in parallel at the output to help for the inrush current of the contactors.

My actual mongoose work fine with a 4A 12V external psu from LCD monitor connected with 50 or 100Vdc on my konions.

Doc

I hope that help!
Hey doc,

I understand you use the invertor to power the contractors...

however, where did you wire the ac inverter to?... on my bike ... i need to turn the contactors on with a 16v battery to power the bike at either 72v or 144v ... then i can power my inverter once the contactors are activated! and power the accesories (lights..) (my inverter is connected to the load - & + on my bike...

however your bike runs entirely of the inverter...

i hope this makes sence to you..

-steveo
Repair Thread
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Doctorbass   100 GW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Doctorbass » Apr 27 2010 8:36am

steveo wrote:
Doctorbass wrote:
steveo wrote:

thanks doc!!... i finally put it on my bike...

i need to find a way to insulate the contract to avoid someone getting zapped!

Doc... how do you power the contactors if you don't mind me asking?... do you use a seperate battery?

-steveo
I'm using a old LCD monitor power supply as a DC-Dc.

It' s a 12V 4A switching that normally take 100-240Vac but i discovered two years ago that some of them acept DC current at input !! some can take from as low as 20Vdc only!!

so that make you a cheap dc-dc that can take any voltage from 20 to 240V ac or dc !!

you can also buy some from ebay at 9.99$ that are rated 12V 4.5 A. they generally all work!

if one dont work.. you can try reversing the polarity at the AC input.. sometime it only can take one polarity cause it's dc and not AC at input.

sumarry: many simple AC switching power supply adaptor can work as Dc-Dc !!

since these Ev200 can take between 9 to 36V DC input you can use ant of these adaptor that have between 12 to 24VDC.. they will work.

I know that many laptop psu that have like 18 to 20Vdc output generally work fine for that too.

You only need to ensure that the inruswh current when the contactor energize can be supplyed correctly. and that the psu have at least 4 or 5A output for that. You can also add a capactitor in parallel at the output to help for the inrush current of the contactors.

My actual mongoose work fine with a 4A 12V external psu from LCD monitor connected with 50 or 100Vdc on my konions.

Doc

I hope that help!
Hey doc,

I understand you use the invertor to power the contractors...

however, where did you wire the ac inverter to?... on my bike ... i need to turn the contactors on with a 16v battery to power the bike at either 72v or 144v ... then i can power my inverter once the contactors are activated! and power the accesories (lights..) (my inverter is connected to the load - & + on my bike...

however your bike runs entirely of the inverter...

i hope this makes sence to you..

-steveo
lol.. Steveo.. I understand what you mean... I solved the problem by using a pre charge switch that directly put current from one of the 50V battery combo to the contactor.. so once it's done the contactor take the relay and auto power itself...

just add a switch ( ex: push botton like in the Honda S2000... 8) ) that is connected with a resistor in serie... ex: 1000ohm 5W so that when you'll push that switch, that will put half the full voltage to the invertor AC input... and will activate them and they will auto sustain themself ( feedback loop)

it's a way to bypass the contactor momentanously to help to activate themself.

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
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curious   1 kW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by curious » May 02 2010 1:01am

Some time ago I've posted an automatic precharge circuit that covers all voltage transitions (not only power-up but also transitions between series/parallel modes). It uses two auxillary small signal relays.

The key idea was using a tiny 24V relay with a coil connected across the precharge resistor. When the voltage drops to release point (about 8V for that relay) it powers back the main contactor coils. The second small relay is commutating precharge resistor and DC converter input.

Take a look at the bottom of this thread for schematics:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... f=3&t=9729
P1, P2, P3 - power relays
P4 - commutating signal relay
P5 - 24V relay used as "precharge complete" sensor
(note that P5 coil current can flow in either direction, also note that it is powered for only a short time thus 24V rating is fine for many HV setups)

On a different note - I've been using successfully 70A NTE relays as main contactors without any issues so far. They are cheap and plentiful. Not suitable for record setting setups, but I've been running up to 100A on my setup just fine.
bike1: hardtail frame, 5304 rear, 850wh a123 66v/33v switchable, Kelly KEB72601, proportional regen;
bike2: bikeE FX recumbent, sensored bafang front on a 16" rim, 16s a123;
bike3: work in progress (slow), long range SWB touring recumbent, >1.5kwh pack TBD, Kelly KBS72101, likely HT35 hub, proportional regen.

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Tom_D   100 mW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Tom_D » Jun 26 2010 2:01pm

NOTICE: I just found these same HV contactors: http://cafeelectric.com/downloads/ev200.pdf


3 day sale on these for 10% off = $68 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also Free shipping USPS Priority.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kilovac-EV200-Serie ... 2ead96e229


-- Tom_D
Bike: wally world 26" Roadmaster mtn
Trailer: Bob
Motor: front Clyte 5305
Controller: LYEN 124115 HV
Charger: Soneil 4808 SRF (onboard), parallel charging (4) 48V blocks, NO BMS
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The Stig   100 kW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by The Stig » Jun 22 2011 8:38am

Is this still the best bang for your buck switch around? I just want one as a battery power switch. I'll either use it at 36v and 60A or 72V and 30A.

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Doctorbass   100 GW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Doctorbass » Jun 22 2011 9:13am

The Stig wrote:Is this still the best bang for your buck switch around? I just want one as a battery power switch. I'll either use it at 36v and 60A or 72V and 30A.

Yes.. it's the best! !
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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The Stig   100 kW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by The Stig » Jun 28 2011 8:32pm

Ok I looked at the data sheet for the EV200 and it's coil voltage is 3-96V so does this mean I can just wire it with my battery at 72V in series with a switch to control it?

It seems the smaller LEV100 has a coil voltage of 24V, 36V, or 48V. So presumably I wouldn't be able to control the coil with a circuit powered by my 72V battery.

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Doctorbass   100 GW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Doctorbass » Jun 28 2011 9:17pm

The EV200 i have are 9-36V... not 96v
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 28 2011 9:18pm

Our TTXGP bike that won the last formula 75 event SMOKED our kilavac 500amp contactor into a hot smoking mess. We had to borrow a real one from Brammo. (thanks guys!)

Good for most EV's though.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

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Doctorbass   100 GW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Doctorbass » Jun 29 2011 1:01am

liveforphysics wrote:Our TTXGP bike that won the last formula 75 event SMOKED our kilavac 500amp contactor into a hot smoking mess. We had to borrow a real one from Brammo. (thanks guys!)

Good for most EV's though.

Hey Luke, did they smoked while make or break? did they had precharge resistor?.. i know that some are not using them and to charge up the capacitors of the controlelr in few ms thay current spike dammage them alot and reduce theyr life.

I bought a batch where some had the little pressure valve damaged.. i dont use them .. they might arc to easy

i'm using the ev200 contactor on nearly all of my ebikes. i'm proud of :wink:

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 29 2011 1:14am

Yes we have precharge.

It melted one of the lugs clean off in a melty droopy mess while it was closed and we were racing around the track, pulling about 950amps through a 500amp rated contactor.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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The Stig   100 kW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by The Stig » Jun 29 2011 2:33am

The Stig wrote:Ok I looked at the data sheet for the EV200 and it's coil voltage is 3-96V so does this mean I can just wire it with my battery at 72V in series with a switch to control it?

It seems the smaller LEV100 has a coil voltage of 24V, 36V, or 48V. So presumably I wouldn't be able to control the coil with a circuit powered by my 72V battery.
Doctorbass wrote:The EV200 i have are 9-36V... not 96v
I meant 36v-95v and 48v-95v.relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf
Last edited by The Stig on Jun 29 2011 6:02am, edited 3 times in total.

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Jozzer   100 kW

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Re: Now THAT'S A SWITCH !!

Post by Jozzer » Jun 29 2011 5:10am

You can get away with more than 500A through an EV200, however you need to use very heavy lugs/copper on the terminals to keep them cool..

Steve
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
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