eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

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LogRaam   10 mW

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eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by LogRaam » Oct 28 2008 10:23pm

Hi,

I would like to fit a eZee motor hub (already ordered) on a suspension fork that have a through axle. Suspension fork is Shiver SC 2002. Someone have a clue?

If eZee won't fit on a through axle, then is this possible to tweak something to do the fit?

Thanks
LogRaam
-----------------------------------------------------------
Surly Pugsley + Shiver SC... cooked the Ezee hub :-( upgrading to X5 Cruiser or Brute with 2x LiFePO4 48V/20Ah.

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voicecoils   10 MW

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by voicecoils » Oct 28 2008 10:49pm

LogRaam wrote:Hi,

I would like to fit a eZee motor hub (already ordered) on a suspension fork that have a through axle. Suspension fork is Shiver SC 2002. Someone have a clue?

If eZee won't fit on a through axle, then is this possible to tweak something to do the fit?

Thanks
Des the Shiver have plates on the bottom of the fork that screw out? My Super T Pro's do.

If so you could have a machine shop create some adapters that would slide over the eZee axle and slip into the 20mm thru axel. They could be your torque arm/nuts too if machined out with 10mm flats.

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by voicecoils » Oct 28 2008 10:58pm

Do you have pictures of your fork?
Image

I can't tell if the bottom of the thru axle can unscrew or if it is just one piece that bolts at the front. If the latter, you will not be able to make it work, without seriously altering the hubmotor itself.

Also, the motor will not handle hard riding. If you want to huck to flat the motor will not last (bearings, gears, casing, everything basically...)

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LogRaam   10 mW

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by LogRaam » Oct 29 2008 12:31am

Here's a picture of a Shiver DC 2002.

Image

I have a SC, but the fitting is the same. From the picture, you can see that it can be unscrewed.
LogRaam
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Surly Pugsley + Shiver SC... cooked the Ezee hub :-( upgrading to X5 Cruiser or Brute with 2x LiFePO4 48V/20Ah.

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by rkosiorek » Oct 29 2008 9:54am

i would take a couple of pieces of 20mm OD shaft. drill and tap the center to M12 X 1.0 so that they thread onto the motor axles.

trim them to the right length so that they don't stick out past the ens of the fork.

instead of a torque arm you could cross drill and ream a 6.35mm hole through the bottom plate, 20mm axle adapter, and motor axle. drive in a 6.35mm (0.250 inch) roll pin. the pin will keep stuff from turning. you only need the pin on one side. you could do that on the side without the wires.

if the bottom plates do not come off you can still use the same idea. just substitute a shoulder screw of the right length for the shoulder screw.

to assemble /diassemble and change tires would be a bit of a pain though. you would have to loosten the tripple clamp bolts and then slide the fork tubes out of the clamps.

rick
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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by dogman dan » Oct 29 2008 3:03pm

Once you do get it built, do post a new thread with lots of pics. :D

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LogRaam   10 mW

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by LogRaam » Oct 29 2008 3:18pm

Sure! poste them (pics) when I can. Shipping should bring the HUB at home next week ;-)

Thanks for everyone. From your suggestions, I’ll try to use a Shiver axle and modify it. It’ll be machined to an interface that’ll fit the eZee axle to the fork’s grip. To prevent torque rotation, a small plate with 2 holes will be soldered on each piece of the interface; this plate will be screwed on using the existing bolts (look at the picture above, at the bottom of the fork). This way, no need to modify the fork by drilling into it.. and it’ll be simple to remove the wheel.

The only issue now is the electric wires; I need the HUB to figure out how I can fit wires around with the machined interface.

I'm still open for better ideas!
LogRaam
-----------------------------------------------------------
Surly Pugsley + Shiver SC... cooked the Ezee hub :-( upgrading to X5 Cruiser or Brute with 2x LiFePO4 48V/20Ah.

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LogRaam   10 mW

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by LogRaam » Dec 08 2008 4:48pm

Hi folks,

ePugsley is done! As promised, here's some pictures:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Everything goes pretty well. A french forum posted the whole ePugsley project here: http://www.vmqca.qc.ca/chroniquesdegill ... 81126.html

I'm here to answer your questions, if any..

Bye,
Log
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-----------------------------------------------------------
Surly Pugsley + Shiver SC... cooked the Ezee hub :-( upgrading to X5 Cruiser or Brute with 2x LiFePO4 48V/20Ah.

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by recumbent » Dec 09 2008 2:37am

Those are some fat lookin wheelz you got there bud, looks good. What width are they?

How do you like the Ezee motor, have you tried it on 48 volts yet?

All around nice machine, (checked out your other site) you have the same trunk as i do, excellent taste :)
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LogRaam   10 mW

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by LogRaam » Dec 09 2008 2:39pm

Hi Recumbent,

Tires are from Surly, more precisely Surly Large Marge rims (in front a standard Large Marge and rear with Pugsley Large Marge), and I use Endomorph 3.7'' tires. This setup is perfect for snow 'cause it let you "float" above iced rot and it let you ride on top of snow. It give you lots more stability too. The only matters with large fat tires is that they are normally slow, but the eZee motor hub do all the dirty job for me ;-)

eZee motor is pretty good with fat tires because they have more torq. I ride on 48V Cadmium battery pack (12A controller). Average speed is around 48 to 50 KM/h assisted with a SRAM 9-speed fitted on the rear wheel and a mid-sized gear in front. Having a 2-wheel traction is very effective in winter condition; motor assited front wheel and pedal assisted rear wheel is the best combo for snow and rought ride.

Cold temperature is a problem. Below -20°C, the eZee motor lost half his power and the bike won't ride above 25 Km/h. Winter 2009 should be my real benchmark.

G.
LogRaam
-----------------------------------------------------------
Surly Pugsley + Shiver SC... cooked the Ezee hub :-( upgrading to X5 Cruiser or Brute with 2x LiFePO4 48V/20Ah.

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by rguy56 » Dec 09 2008 11:17pm

I don't see what's stopping the rotation of the axle in the fork. Do you just rely on the allen bolts to tighten it?

I had originally wanted to put a front hub wheel on my Giant D.H., specifically to have winter 2wd. but got frustrated with the hub axle to fork junction on the thru-axle. If I could only figure out what you did...

Bob

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LogRaam   10 mW

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by LogRaam » Dec 09 2008 11:48pm

Hi rguy56,

First I used a bolt, and then I put the machined sleeve on the hub original axle. The bolt is then used to lock the sleeve. If you look at the photo, notice the bolt at the base of the hub axle.

Image

Image

Image



The sleeve has a small hole drilled in it and a small flat allen bolt is screwed through the sleeve to the hub axle, on the flat; this secures the sleeve from spinning. But I must tell you that I didn’t used it on my bike and everything goes well, so I doubt this feature is really needed.

I put liquid lock-tight (the blue stuff) on the hub axle to stuck the sleeve too. Then I tighten the allen bolts from the suspension like hell; the sleeve diameter are slightly larger to let me tighten the allen bolts better.

So, locking bolt + liquid lock-tight + tightening the allen bolts on the suspension is all I needed to secure the axle from spinning. The bike is 80 pounds and I’m 263 pounds.. and the axle didn’t spin yet and I’m sure it won’t. Even after climbing, the axle stays in place.

Hope it’ll help ;-)
LogRaam
-----------------------------------------------------------
Surly Pugsley + Shiver SC... cooked the Ezee hub :-( upgrading to X5 Cruiser or Brute with 2x LiFePO4 48V/20Ah.

rguy56   100 W

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by rguy56 » Dec 10 2008 1:08am

LogRaam,

It helps a lot. I had wondered if those allen bolts might hold a hub axle mounted that way. Now to search for a machine shop to try it myself.

Thanks.

Bob

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by Mark_A_W » Feb 19 2009 1:24am

It's gunna spin in the axle one day.

You've got what, 70Nm of torque from that motor?
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

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Powered by the sun :)

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by bobmcree » Feb 19 2009 3:12am

Mark_A_W wrote:It's gunna spin in the axle one day.

You've got what, 70Nm of torque from that motor?
i don't want to be negative, but mark is right. i have an ezee, and 70 Nm is correct and it is a LOT of torque. a little setscrew on a flat is not going to keep the axle from turning eventually. I hope we are wrong.
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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by Almasi » Feb 19 2009 4:03am

So how do you change your tire if you get a pinch flat?

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LogRaam   10 mW

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by LogRaam » Feb 19 2009 10:52am

Actually, I ride this setting each day this winter on a distance of 30km (going at work), in the snow. I'm 275 pounds and my tires are inflated to only 5 psi for better traction and bump controls. The Ezee is powered by a 48v NiCad battery pack. On weekend, I pull my 2 daughters with a sleight tied on the bike.

i've checked the axle each week, and from what I see it didn't spin yet; everything seems to very sturdy.

If you have suggestions about the spinning issue with the suspension setup, please let me know.

LogRaam
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-----------------------------------------------------------
Surly Pugsley + Shiver SC... cooked the Ezee hub :-( upgrading to X5 Cruiser or Brute with 2x LiFePO4 48V/20Ah.

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LogRaam   10 mW

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by LogRaam » Feb 19 2009 10:57am

Hi Almasi,

Actually, I have to patch the tire. If the tire is done, then I must unscrew everything and build it back in place after tire replacement. The real problem is if the front tire can't be patched and I'm on the road, then I have a big problem :shock:
LogRaam
-----------------------------------------------------------
Surly Pugsley + Shiver SC... cooked the Ezee hub :-( upgrading to X5 Cruiser or Brute with 2x LiFePO4 48V/20Ah.

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by Mark_A_W » Feb 19 2009 3:27pm

LogRaam wrote:Actually, I ride this setting each day this winter on a distance of 30km (going at work), in the snow. I'm 275 pounds and my tires are inflated to only 5 psi for better traction and bump controls. The Ezee is powered by a 48v NiCad battery pack. On weekend, I pull my 2 daughters with a sleight tied on the bike.

i've checked the axle each week, and from what I see it didn't spin yet; everything seems to very sturdy.

If you have suggestions about the spinning issue with the suspension setup, please let me know.

LogRaam
Just think about a Torque arm running up the fork, and clamped at the top.


I like everything else about what you've done. With a torque arm it would be bulletproof.

To put it into perspective, 70Nm is almost as much torque as a small car puts out. You are only reacting that torque 10mm away from the rotation centre, that means there's 7000N "spread around" the surface of the 20mm shaft. That's 700kg. If you add an arm, say 150mm long, the arm is only resisting 470N, or 47kg, which isn't a worry at all.

If the motor torque is lower the number go down, but even at 25Nm it's still a bit of a concern.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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LogRaam   10 mW

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by LogRaam » Feb 19 2009 3:46pm

Thanks for the insight.

But how to mount a torque arm with the inverted design of the Shiver suspension fork?

LogRaam
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Surly Pugsley + Shiver SC... cooked the Ezee hub :-( upgrading to X5 Cruiser or Brute with 2x LiFePO4 48V/20Ah.

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by Almasi » Feb 19 2009 4:13pm

LogRaam wrote:Thanks for the insight.

But how to mount a torque arm with the inverted design of the Shiver suspension fork?

LogRaam

Probably the best way would be to get custom made machined fork drop out and change the drop out on the fork...these high end fork are usually fully rebuild-able so I'm sure you can take it a part.

Robin

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Mark_A_W   100 kW

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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by Mark_A_W » Feb 19 2009 4:53pm

LogRaam wrote:Thanks for the insight.

But how to mount a torque arm with the inverted design of the Shiver suspension fork?

LogRaam

Ahh...bugger.

Sorry missed that.

I'd put a custom plate over the end somehow, try to spread the load out as far away from the axle as you can.

Even a clamp around the very bottom of the staunchion - giving up 15mm or stroke, lets face it you have enough travel on those forks, and then an arm to the axle.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Fixing a flat on your bike

Post by recumbent » Feb 20 2009 2:55am

You guys don't have to remove the wheel at all to fix a flat, I did it with a rear wheel while still on the bike and it worked amazingly well, it's easier than you think.
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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by docnjoj » Feb 20 2009 8:22am

OK Recumbent! I give up! How do you do that?
otherDoc
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Re: eZee motor + fork with a through axle ?

Post by recumbent » Feb 20 2009 4:03pm

docnjoj wrote: I give up! How do you do that?
otherDoc
:) It wasn't supposed to be a quiz, you just repair it the same as always, except you leave it bolted to the frame. The tire is never removed nor the tube, just inflate the exposed part of the tube, find the hiss, and patch.

The tube is still looped into the frame, but easily accessed and patched. I know cause we did it to a friends bike couple years ago.
Ebike in use:
LWB Recumbent bike, Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
New build: Delta recumbent trike

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