s12s slcd3 problem

Golyo · Dec 19, 2015

Hello all,
I have a strange problem. When I tested my configuration about a week ago, the throttle worked OK. Now when I am trying to assemble it, it does not.
Parts: S12S controller, S-LCD3 display, Bafang CST motor, 36V battery pack (18650, 31.9Ah).

The original problem was solved. The PAS wasn't working, so P4 had to be changed to 0. However now I am facing a different problem. I don't have a voltage meter on the battery yet, but it feels like the display cuts out at around 40V first. It can be rebooted, but time and again it will cut off again, mostly at full throttle, but the frequency is increasing with the dropping of the voltage. I returned home with 39.1 and 39.3 Volts the last two days. Also the display gets dim. When you reboot it or start it first it is bright as it should be but only for a short moment. It is quite clear that load plays a part with the cutouts, as with no load I can give it full throttle, and it works okay however long I want. The strange thing is that when the battery is charged to about 41.3 (that's the maximum I am seeing) everything looks okay. Does anyone have some good ideas what can cause this?

TheBeastie · Dec 19, 2015

Hard to say, the first thought comes to mind is checking your P4 setting, it should be P4=0 if you want throttle to always be "on" as in you don't need to start pedaling before it becomes active etc. Or a more simple way to put it is P4 set to 0 means "american mode".
It could be one of those more deeper fancy C settings could be holding you back? Maybe try a master default reset.
Good explanation of settings here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62469

Also if your motor is a Bafang 9 pin plug or something similar try unplugging your motor plug and cleaning the pins and plugging it back in, I had to do this to mine a little while ago as the motor wasn't working and the LCD was reporting bizarre things like I was using 2000w of power being used when I wasn't even moving... Cleaning the pins fixed it.
Pins reference thread.. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58451

Golyo · Dec 19, 2015

TheBeastie said:
Hard to say, the first thought comes to mind is checking your P4 setting, it should be P4=0 if you want throttle to always be "on" as in you don't need to start pedaling before it becomes active etc. Or a more simple way to put it is P4 set to 0 means "american mode".
It could be one of those more deeper fancy C settings could be holding you back? Maybe try a master default reset.
Good explanation of settings here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62469

Also if your motor is a Bafang 9 pin plug or something similar try unplugging your motor plug and cleaning the pins and plugging it back in, I had to do this to mine a little while ago as the motor wasn't working and the LCD was reporting bizarre things like I was using 2000w of power being used when I wasn't even moving... Cleaning the pins fixed it.
Pins reference thread.. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58451

Thanks!
It was the P4 function, I forgot that I changed it.
After the maiden voyage, there is another problem, though. It seems the controller cuts out at 39V. I have a huge battery pack (s10p11), so sag should not be big, and although the temperature is pretty low (3°C) it should not be a great issue. How does the controller know what is the nominal voltage of my battery? It feels like it is trying to protect a 48V battery by switching off.

TheBeastie · Dec 20, 2015

Golyo said:
Thanks!
It was the P4 function, I forgot that I changed it.
After the maiden voyage, there is another problem, though. It seems the controller cuts out at 39V. I have a huge battery pack (s10p11), so sag should not be big, and although the temperature is pretty low (3°C) it should not be a great issue. How does the controller know what is the nominal voltage of my battery? It feels like it is trying to protect a 48V battery by switching off.

Try setting P5 to 0, then unplug the battery and reconnect and see how it goes.
Failing that try P5 = 1, then try P5 = 2
if still no good try p5 = anywhere between 5 - 15
If still no good try setting in the C mode settings C12 = 0 (default it should be 4, which should work OK)

Also note the controller never truly cuts out like maybe a traditional controller do as in your LCD display will always be on even when you run out of battery and should just display zero battery... If you are fully loosing power to your LCD display then its your batterys BMS thats fully cutting out power and not your S12S controller.

Golyo · Dec 20, 2015

TheBeastie said:
Golyo said:

Also note the controller never truly cuts out like maybe a traditional controller do as in your LCD display will always be on even when you run out of battery and should just display zero battery... If you are fully loosing power to your LCD display then its your batterys BMS thats fully cutting out power and not your S12S controller.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the ideas, I will try them out next, when I go out. Today's test drive did not solve anything, the speed sensor was not enough.
The thing I quoted from you is important because there is no BMS on my battery (and it is a monster at 31.9Ah), and something definitely cuts out the screen, and I have to reboot. It seems that it is connected with the wattage because the first cutout happened at full throttle, then as the voltage decreased it happened more and more frequently. And because the display becomes quite dim I cannot really see if it shows my battery full or empty at this point.
Today's temperature was around 2°C, almost freezing.

edit: I changed P5 to 0, and restarted the lcd, but it is still dim. Also it shows the temperature at -3°C, however it is in a room, and the temp is at least 15°C there. Strange. Can a faulty temperature sensor cause these cutouts?

motomech · Dec 20, 2015

Are you using Lipo? I tried to mate Lipo (12S) w/ the SLCD-3(Both S6OS and S12S)without much luck. Before I gave up, I had the impression that the sine wave controller and display are optimized to sense either 36V or 48V to determin the LVC and the odd Voltages of Lipo causes it problems.

Golyo · Dec 20, 2015

motomech said:
Are you using Lipo?

No. It's a 18650 pack.

Golyo · Dec 20, 2015

The original problem was solved. The PAS wasn't working, so P4 had to be changed to 0. However now I am facing a different problem. I don't have a voltage meter on the battery yet, but it feels like the display cuts out at around 40V first. It can be rebooted, but time and again it will cut off again, mostly at full throttle, but the frequency is increasing with the dropping of the voltage. I returned home with 39.1 and 39.3 Volts the last two days. Also the display gets dim. When you reboot it or start it first it is bright as it should be but only for a short moment. It is quite clear that load plays a part with the cutouts, as with no load I can give it full throttle, and it works okay however long I want. The strange thing is that when the battery is charged to about 41.3 (that's the maximum I am seeing) everything looks okay, and it works great and there are no cutouts. Does anyone have some good ideas what can cause this?

Lancer_IV · Dec 20, 2015

Golyo said:
TheBeastie said:

Golyo said:

Also note the controller never truly cuts out like maybe a traditional controller do as in your LCD display will always be on even when you run out of battery and should just display zero battery... If you are fully loosing power to your LCD display then its your batterys BMS thats fully cutting out power and not your S12S controller.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Thanks for the ideas, I will try them out next, when I go out. Today's test drive did not solve anything, the speed sensor was not enough.
The thing I quoted from you is important because there is no BMS on my battery (and it is a monster at 31.9Ah), and something definitely cuts out the screen, and I have to reboot. It seems that it is connected with the wattage because the first cutout happened at full throttle, then as the voltage decreased it happened more and more frequently. And because the display becomes quite dim I cannot really see if it shows my battery full or empty at this point.
Today's temperature was around 2°C, almost freezing.

edit: I changed P5 to 0, and restarted the lcd, but it is still dim. Also it shows the temperature at -3°C, however it is in a room, and the temp is at least 15°C there. Strange. Can a faulty temperature sensor cause these cutouts?

If you have good speed sensor, but turns completely off at loads then you may have bad cells in your pack. Buy a 5 dollar volt meter and check your cells. You may have been overcharging some of your cells, too if you don't have bms to prevent overcharging... 41 volt of the pack doesn't mean each cell is 4.1v, some cells may be holding much more to compensate for bad ones. This will cause more problems for you.

Golyo · Dec 20, 2015

Lancer_IV said:
If you have good speed sensor, but turns completely off at loads then you may have bad cells in your pack. Buy a 5 dollar volt meter and check your cells. You may have been overcharging some of your cells, too if you don't have bms to prevent overcharging... 41 volt of the pack doesn't mean each cell is 4.1v, some cells may be holding much more to compensate for bad ones. This will cause more problems for you.

The battery is perfect. Just checked the cells, and there is a 0.002V discrepancy between them.

Golyo · Dec 20, 2015

In another thread, I found that a speed sensor is a must to avoid cutouts, so I installed it. After hours of changing settings, it is working. P2 (phase number) should be set to the correct number even if you have a speed sensor installed. Otherwise, it only works when the motor is under power. Baffling. Chinese logic!

Lancer_IV · Dec 20, 2015

Golyo said:
In another thread, I found that a speed sensor is a must to avoid cutouts, so I installed it. After hours of changing settings, it is working. P2 (phase number) should be set to the correct number even if you have a speed sensor installed. Otherwise, it only works when the motor is under power. Baffling. Chinese logic!

Good to hear its working now. Thought from your last post you already installed speed sensor and works good, but was still turning off. That's why I mentioned if speed sensor was good, then only other thing would be batteries.

Golyo · Dec 21, 2015

It was only the speed sensor that I managed to make work. The cutouts persist. Looking at the pretty dim display, it seems it should not be low voltage protection (the battery meter shows a full battery). What other protection can completely turn off the display? I would really appreciate some help here.
Settings:
P1: 80; P2: 6; P3: 1; P4: 0; P5: 00; C1: 07; C2: 0; C3: 8; C4: 0; C5: 08; C6:4; C7-C13: 0; C14: 3

Details: S-LCD3, S12S controller, Bafang CST 500W36V, 36V accupack (31.9Ah), speed sensor is installed and working, PAS is not installed, I am using throttle only now.

Lancer_IV · Dec 21, 2015

Why is your P2 speed sensor pulse set to 6? You have 6 magnets on the spokes with the Hall/Reed sensor? Set C5 = 10 for max current draw if you don't mind extra power. C4 = 0 for zero start up handle bars. C12 = 4 recommended for 30V cut off.

Have you tried running no load to the cut off voltage? Double check possible bad wiring triggering a shut down of the system at loads? What sensor did you use for speed?

Golyo · Dec 22, 2015

Lancer_IV said:
Why is your P2 speed sensor pulse set to 6? You have 6 magnets on the spokes with the Hall/Reed sensor?

That's how my setup shows the correct speed. When P2 was 0 it did not show speed without power, and other values just gave wrong speed values.
I tried different C5 values, but it seems that it does not affect throttle, probably only works with PAS. C12=0 was experimental but, unfortunately, did not change a thing. C4 is 0.

Golyo · Dec 22, 2015

This is what happens when I turn it on, and the battery is around 39.2V:
https://youtu.be/yyuY73K0iSs
This should show a cutout, unfortunately, the display is too dim to see anything:
https://youtu.be/CLNyolJCOi0

I have another idea, and I would need someone to check their signal voltage. When I tried to make my PAS work, I noticed that the 5V signal voltage is rather low at 4.1V. Now I've checked it and it is still 4.11V when the battery is @38.8V. I will discharge the battery now to about 35V to check if it changes anything. Am I right in thinking that a low signal voltage could possibly cause both my problems (dim display and cutouts)?

Lancer_IV · Dec 23, 2015

Golyo said:
This is what happens when I turn it on, and the battery is around 39.2V:
https://youtu.be/yyuY73K0iSs
This should show a cutout, unfortunately, the display is too dim to see anything:
https://youtu.be/CLNyolJCOi0

I have another idea, and I would need someone to check their signal voltage. When I tried to make my PAS work, I noticed that the 5V signal voltage is rather low at 4.1V. Now I've checked it and it is still 4.11V when the battery is @38.8V. I will discharge the battery now to about 35V to check if it changes anything. Am I right in thinking that a low signal voltage could possibly cause both my problems (dim display and cutouts)?

It is very possible. Though you can test the dim LCD problem by giving the LCD the direct 36v power source and check if it is lit up proper without connecting to controller. Another thing to try is to not plug in speed sensor, something is up with that (proper sensor should be set up to ground out when triggered) unless your wheel diameter wasn't set correctly (though 6x is quite a disparity). Third is to run your set up with absolute minimum connections, without the LCD (v+ to ignition lock, and grounding Rx on the LCD cable). Hope this will let you figure out if controller bad or LCD bad or wiring bad.

Golyo · Dec 24, 2015

I did further experimenting, and with the voltage under 38V the whole system works perfectly. Just over 38V it produces cutouts. I am a beginner, but it screams of LVC.
These two videos show the display after boot up with the battery just over and just under 38V.
https://youtu.be/v4Imsnk6rG0
https://youtu.be/C6P1iIHcu5c

Lancer_IV · Dec 24, 2015

That's too bad, will be losing a bit of range only charging to 38v. Still odd the lcd dims that much, unless it was programmed for two power settings but thinks you are 48v pack from its quick check. But since you can now run at 38, keep running it down to cut off voltage, hopefully it will memorize its last state and default to 36v settings when you fully charge it back to 42v (ie it may be programmed for certain thresholds to be met and compares to last settings). Good luck! And Merry Christmas.

TheBeastie · Dec 24, 2015

Golyo said:
I did further experimenting, and with the voltage under 38V the whole system works perfectly. Just over 38V it produces cutouts. I am a beginner, but it screams of LVC.
These two videos show the display after boot up with the battery just over and just under 38V.
https://youtu.be/v4Imsnk6rG0
https://youtu.be/C6P1iIHcu5c

Yeah seems a bit all weird, try cleaning the pins of the LCD panel cable, also check your main battery lead wires check for heat which is a sure sign of poor currant flow. I secretly hate Anderson plugs and much prefer bullet plugs or any kind of a similar bullet style nature.

motomech · Dec 25, 2015

Lancer_IV said:
That's too bad, will be losing a bit of range only charging to 38v. Still odd the lcd dims that much, unless it was programmed for two power settings but thinks you are 48v pack from its quick check. But since you can now run at 38, keep running it down to cut off voltage, hopefully it will memorize its last state and default to 36v settings when you fully charge it back to 42v (ie it may be programmed for certain thresholds to be met and compares to last settings). Good luck! And Merry Christmas.

Yes, This is what I believe is happening and obviously, it's not normal behaviour for the S12S/SLCD-3 combo.
I'm thinking a another display should be tried.
Too bad the PO is so far away, I have several laying around.

Golyo · Mar 13, 2016

It turned out that it was all my fault, as I ordered a 72V display. Obviously the description of the item was quite misleading, but still I should have read it better. With the 36/48V display the system works like a charm.

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