Most silent geared hub motor?

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Allex   1 GW

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Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by Allex » Jan 17 2016 2:25pm

Want to build a light and silent bike, is there any particular Geared motors that I should look for?
I noticed this one, The seller mention that it is silent. And it looks like it may be more silent than regular geard hubbies due to helical gears inside, as you can see in the pictures.
helical.jpg
helical.jpg (41.26 KiB) Viewed 4481 times
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product ... 87888.html
According to this link, it looks like the motor is actually is mxus?
https://www.electricbike.com/2014-year-in-review/


Also, If I want to adapt belt drive from a already existing bike, is it better to buy motor with casette or bolt on sprocket?
Any other tips regarding motor choise?

The Q100 and Q100C are much cheaper, but are they good in comparison? Maybe mxus have 0,35lams as well?
Image
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=72094
Last edited by Allex on Jan 19 2016 10:00am, edited 1 time in total.

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Drunkskunk   100 GW

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Re: Looking for small and silent hub motor - belt drive!

Post by Drunkskunk » Jan 18 2016 9:50am

The MXUS isn't silent. Far from it. I really like my MXUS, and it's sort of quiet, but I can't sneak up on people with it. Silence is not an attribute of geared hubs. Gears make noise. The Adana Q100s might be the best option, but everyone you pass will hear them.

None of those motors is suitable for a belt drive directly. The cogs for a belt drive are designed to fit single speed hubs or IGHs. There are conversion kits to turn multi speed hubs to single speed,(Example), but you'll have to do some research to find out what your particular bike will require.
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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Looking for small and silent hub motor - belt drive!

Post by Allex » Jan 18 2016 10:04am

Thx, last time I build 250W bike was with this motor below. It was really quiet, no grunt at all and produced about the same noise as a bafang mid drive.
Any one used it before?
Image


Found a thread for it
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =4&t=63233


As for the rear belt sprocket. Could use a regular 9-spline hub and buy a 9-spline Rear Sprocket and use that adapter you linked to.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gates-Carbon-Dr ... SwI-BWHRoD

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Looking for small and silent hub motor - belt drive!

Post by dogman dan » Jan 19 2016 9:05am

If you are looking for really silent, direct drive. The quietest one was the old crystalyte 400 series. No longer made, but used ones turn up occasionally on ebay or whatever. You could end up settling for a front, lots of those were sold. A similarly quiet front motor sold under the brand Wilderness Energy, or Aotema. Usually the aotema logo on the WE motor.

Not sure, but High Tech Bikes may be still selling that front aotema.

Front motor way more compatible with funny drive, belt drive, shaft drive, IGH's. I'd say go belt drive and IGH, then front motor, even if you choose a small geared one.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Looking for small and silent hub motor - belt drive!

Post by Allex » Jan 19 2016 9:54am

Thx for input. I am afraid that a DD will be to bulky. Font motor is out of the question, dont like the handling :)
Dskunk, which one would be louder, Q or mxus?

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by izeman » Jan 19 2016 10:12am

i use a converted MAC as mid drive. imho the gears are not a problem at all - noise wise. wind noise and tires are much louder than the motor.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by Allex » Jan 19 2016 10:20am

I diched my MAC because of the noice, have a BBS02 now and the chain noise/wheels overtakes the motor sound.
Here is my MAC, sorry but I could not live with that

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by montyp » Jan 19 2016 12:39pm

Keep in mind for a rear motor, rear rack bags also provide a lot of sound damping.
+10K miles, rides through whatever Minnesota weather can dish out.
Software engineers don't have to worry about ESD, we are software engineers because we have no potential.

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by MrDude_1 » Jan 19 2016 1:23pm

A large portion of the noise can be eliminated by using a Field-Oriented Controller instead of the usual ones...
This makes a larger difference than one hub motor over the other. the loudest one on a FOC makes less motor noise than the quietest one on a trapezoidal controller.
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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by Allex » Jan 19 2016 2:12pm

That is actually what I was thinking about. I Do look after a small sine-wave/FOC controller, this one from Justin could be the one: Grin Phase Runner
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/c ... unner.html

After using the Adaptto sine wave I will never go back to regular controllers due to noise.

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by MrDude_1 » Jan 19 2016 2:34pm

Allex wrote:That is actually what I was thinking about. I Do look after a small sine-wave/FOC controller, this one from Justin could be the one: Grin Phase Runner
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/c ... unner.html

After using the Adaptto sine wave I will never go back to regular controllers due to noise.
I have one of the first batch of clear PhaseRunners... it works excellent once its setup... its just a bit of a pain to setup, but once its done, its done.
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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by amberwolf » Jan 19 2016 4:06pm

I would expect that because gear noise itself is an issue, if you really wanted a geared hub, the quietest would be a roller-gear (rather than toothed) like the Keyde/Tongxin motors...but they are also going to be lower-torque, most likely, as they depend on the interference fit of the rollers for torque transfer, vs teeth.

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by nutnspecial » Jan 19 2016 5:18pm

Allex, likely you have reasons to not use, but wouldn't a belt driven sensored sine controlled single reduction mid be the quietest no drag system, with better weight distribution than a dd (or any hub)?

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by Allex » Jan 19 2016 5:22pm

But how would it look like?
My goal is to make the bike looking as minimalistic as possible, simple and "clean" with not to much effort.

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nutnspecial   1.21 GW

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by nutnspecial » Jan 19 2016 5:43pm

not too much effort.
I hear that! Mine fools people, in looks and sound (just chain and freewheel noise) but due to the power, it is not the lightest or smallest motor to fit on a bike. As I think izeman did, the single reduction mid is my fav.

So my guess is helical geared hub would be best, but no direct experience here.

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by motomech » Jan 20 2016 3:05am

A Q100 run by a SO6S sine wave controller is, for all intents and purposes, dead silent.
At 5 mph and above, if your tires have any tread at all, they will be louder than the drive system.
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'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by docnjoj » Jan 20 2016 9:16am

What he said above. My Q100H even with standard controller is very quiet. My wife's MXUS geared is pretty loud.
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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by Allex » Jan 20 2016 9:39am

Great guys! Does SO6S support CA and programming? I would prefer 36v25Amps but q100 probably would not handle it unless using ferrofluid and in this case maybe the clutch/gears will not make it?

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by SlowCo » Jan 20 2016 9:59am

Allex wrote:Great guys! Does SO6S support CA and programming? I would prefer 36v25Amps but q100 probably would not handle it unless using ferrofluid and in this case maybe the clutch/gears will not make it?
Then a Q128H seems a better choice:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/776-q1 ... e-kit.html

Sinewave controller:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/552-s1 ... e-kit.html
But probably not CA compatible.

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by izeman » Jan 20 2016 10:28am

SlowCo wrote:But probably not CA compatible.
CA compatibility can be added to almost any controller with a connector and a soldering iron.
CA only needs to know the voltage and voltage drop from a defined shunt (controller internally or externally) and then it needs a speed input and throttle voltage output. all this can easily be done. speed signal may be an issue for DD motors, but can always be added from an external wheel mounted speed sensor.

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by bowlofsalad » Jan 20 2016 11:35am

MrDude_1 wrote:A large portion of the noise can be eliminated by using a Field-Oriented Controller instead of the usual ones...
This makes a larger difference than one hub motor over the other. the loudest one on a FOC makes less motor noise than the quietest one on a trapezoidal controller.
I did some direct comparison of a few direct drive hub motors trapazoidally driven and a Q100h FOC (field oriented control) driven using a BAC500+ as the controller and the Q100h was louder by a fair amount, no contest. However, when using FOC on the Q100h it was indeed quieter than when using an S06S. Obviously, a FOC driven direct drive hub motor is wildly quieter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNC5HpzHhFY

It's also probably worth noting, adding ferrofluid to any geared hub motor won't work out how one may imagine, as in it won't do much if anything to expand the thermal capacity. The magnets (which the ferrofluid holds to) aren't glued to the outer shell of the hub motor in geared hub motors, only in direct drive and so there is no enhanced thermal pathway.

If quiet is the quest, I doubt a geared hub motor will live up to the task, at least not with any geared hub motor I've ever listened to. In addition, the S06S and similar controllers say sinusoidal, but it's simply untrue. Adaptto (I've been waiting on a micro-e for a while now), sabvoton, phase runner and so on are the way to go as they genuinely are FOC. You can add a cycle analyst connector to a S06S, but the cycle analyst connector on an S06S is not included by default nor could I get anyone to include it with the controller. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=62809

I suspect the quietest geared hub motor is something from keyde. Although I don't think it would meet your power requirements, and some claim they break easily, they appear not to use toothed gears but instead use some form of a roller. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xelWE1FWa54 Sounds loudish when running in this video. Anyone claiming their geared hub motor is silent is full of it.

What I am planning to do is get a very small and light direct drive hub motor and expand it's thermal capacity as much as possible, likely worth trying out and considering. I am honestly hoping to have motors such as this produced in the future if things go very well with ferrofluid, but maybe Justin or someone else will beat me to that punch. If you are considering using a geared hub motor any bigger than a Q100h, I suspect you may as well use direct drive.

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by motomech » Jan 20 2016 11:48am

How quiet does the O.P. need? Riding in a hospital or library?
I can ride on a multi-use path and not let off the power totally when passing pedrestrians and they have no clue.
There is more ambient noise in our World than we realize, and besides, my bike has pedals that work.
The SO6S controller uses it's own display and is packed with features and is inexpensive. Info on the BMS Battery web site.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Most silent geared hub motor?

Post by Allex » Jan 20 2016 3:43pm

Yes q100 is as big and heavy as I would like to go with.
Adaptto Micro e is postponed and we will not see it(if ever) for at least 2 years, pity! The whole team is working on the new FOC controllers.
Both sinusoidal and FOC controllers run brushless motors silently with no hum or buzz, but a FOC by definition also automates the phase advance process so that the motor is driven at optimal timing even at very high RPMs. This is not the case with current Adapttos.

It is very hard to judge the sound by videos on youtube, but I am totally satisfied with noise from bafang middrive

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