Should I Build A 52v 24ah Lithium Battery For An Ebike Build

A

ArcticWolf_11

10 mW
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
29
Hi, first time on this forum so not sure if this is the right place, but I would like to make an ebike due to my other one breaking (china made controller :/). I was wondering how hard would it be to make one, I have soldering skills but I was told that id have to use a spot welder or something and my friend said that if I crashed on my bike that it would burst into flames if it hit the batteries so I dont know. I was looking on Lunacycle.com and im planning to buy their fat wheel 1000w conversion kit (Works with 52v for 1450w) then I saw the price of the battery, $750, more than the cost of the bike and the motor combined :/....So yeah, iv read this guide and understand what I need to do but I am questioning the safety of it. Thanks! and if you have tips for me leave a reply .

Guide I was reading
https://www.electricbike.com/home-built-battery-18650s/

Bike to convert to an ebike
http://www.amazon.com/Mongoose-Mens-Dolomite-Boys-Cruiser/dp/B00J7J40TM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461278326&sr=8-1&keywords=mongoose+dolomite

Conversion Kit
http://lunacycle.com/motors/hub-motor-kits/fat-ebike-kit-1000-watt-waterproof-connectors-4-inch-rim/

52v 24ah Battery that I want to try to make
http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/52v/triangle-52v-panasonic-ga-18650-24ah-pack-high-power-long-range/

Thanks!
 
If you are building just one, you wont save much money. If you solder them you will damage the cells to some extent. So shorter lifespan = no savings.

Once you buy a spot welder, a good bms, shrink wrap, connectors, wire etc. You will have not saved any money. The diy saving come from gettting a smokin deal on cells shipped from china, and hoping they are genuine. Or after a couple hundred cells.

Plus will you be able to not worry if you build it yourself?


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So, I should just get the pre built one then? Also is that a good bike to convert to an ebike? Thanks! :D
 
Its ok. Steel so strong but heavy. The components are rubbish on them. If you get it at least upgrade the front brake.

Why do you want a fat bike? The tires in that one will self steer like crazy. And fat bike tires are super expensive for good ones. Like the price of that bike for a set.

Dont get me wrong, Im building my second fat ebike right now. But if I had only one ebike, it would not be a fat bike!


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well for one, my old ebike was a regular one but I had constant blow outs for some reason idk why so I put solid inner tubes in it. Then the lcd control panel stopped working a few days later :/. So I pretty much want to try to sell it on craigslist or something and start from scratch. I also had a pretty bad fall going on some dirt/gravel on it and I don't want to repeat that again....So that led me to a fat tire bike, also im going to try to get either the companion rear bike rack or a custom one at my school's metal shop so that I can carry stuff on it as well as another person. I was thinking about an electric cargo bike like the RadWagon but 1 that was expensive and 2 it only goes 20 mph, this one goes to 30 and has amazing range if I put it at 20. Also what do you mean by self steer?
 
Self steer is a fat tire thing. When the tire isnt perpendicular to the ground it pulls in that direction. It gets tiring fighting it. Luna cycle has a sweet fat bike frame that looks like you could double on it.


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It said that it could be installed on either the front or rear wheel, I just need to find out what the rear is. Also a new controller for the motor or the BMS for the battery?
 
Also does anyone know of a bike seat that seats 2 people? Like maybe an extended bike seat 1-2 feet long that 2 people could sit on? Thanks! :D
 
ArcticWolf_11 said:
So, I should just get the pre built one then? Also is that a good bike to convert to an ebike? Thanks! :D
Click to expand...


Some have converted the Dolomite and enjoy it. That's great.

Grizzl-E said:
Its ok. Steel so strong but heavy. The components are rubbish on them. If you get it at least upgrade the front brake.

Why do you want a fat bike? The tires in that one will self steer like crazy. And fat bike tires are super expensive for good ones. Like the price of that bike for a set.

Dont get me wrong, Im building my second fat ebike right now. But if I had only one ebike, it would not be a fat bike!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I bought one and after riding it a couple seasons pedal only, decided to sell it.
I found exactly what Grizzl-E mentioned. Every component was craptastic bordering on dangerous. The worst brakes I've ever used, better off dragging your feet. That has to be your first upgrade before you electrify. IIRC the tire and tube weigh 7lbs , each. :shock: To upgrade to something lighter and of better quality would cost as much as I paid for the entire bike.
The hubs were not well manufactured. Not sure of the correct engineering term,but I think it's called run out. Basically spin the wheel and it looks like the hub is wobbling.

The self steering is something I never got 100% comfortable with, it was a constant fight, not a free flying feeling you get with a well balanced build.
The rear dropouts are 190mm so you must make sure that if you buy a hub motor that it was designed for that. Front is 135mm.
Mid drive is probably the best system for any fatbike if you are going to use it as a fatbike and not a commuter.
Going through sand and snow needs lots of power and you still go at a slower pace. Being able to take advantage of gearing will allow you to use the motor in its most efficient range. Not the conditions a hub motor thrive in.

If you really need a fatbike start with a Bikes Direct bike at minimum. Better quality, better components, not much more expensive. Throwing $1000-$1500-$2000 worth of electric components on a $200 dollar bike seemed liked a good idea to me, but would have been an ugly bite on the ass, with the example I got.

One other thought is the efficiency hit you take. Pedalling that thing I could do less than half the distance of my other pedal bike, granted a 700c Hybrid, but you are using up wh much faster, so getting less range than a more traditional build.
My brain is a bit scattered this morning so I hope that makes sense.

All that said, if you are a sand and snow rider and really want an E-Fattie go for it.
Like Grizzl-E said though, if I could only have one ebike a fattie it won't be and I believed a year ago that it would be the do it all bike. The one bike. It's not. It's a specialized tool.

All the best.
 
Brentis said:
ArcticWolf_11 said:
So, I should just get the pre built one then? Also is that a good bike to convert to an ebike? Thanks! :D
Click to expand...


Some have converted the Dolomite and enjoy it. That's great.

Grizzl-E said:
Its ok. Steel so strong but heavy. The components are rubbish on them. If you get it at least upgrade the front brake.

Why do you want a fat bike? The tires in that one will self steer like crazy. And fat bike tires are super expensive for good ones. Like the price of that bike for a set.

Dont get me wrong, Im building my second fat ebike right now. But if I had only one ebike, it would not be a fat bike!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I bought one and after riding it a couple seasons pedal only, decided to sell it.
I found exactly what Grizzl-E mentioned. Every component was craptastic bordering on dangerous. The worst brakes I've ever used, better off dragging your feet. That has to be your first upgrade before you electrify. IIRC the tire and tube weigh 7lbs , each. :shock: To upgrade to something lighter and of better quality would cost as much as I paid for the entire bike.
The hubs were not well manufactured. Not sure of the correct engineering term,but I think it's called run out. Basically spin the wheel and it looks like the hub is wobbling.

The self steering is something I never got 100% comfortable with, it was a constant fight, not a free flying feeling you get with a well balanced build.
The rear dropouts are 190mm so you must make sure that if you buy a hub motor that it was designed for that. Front is 135mm.
Mid drive is probably the best system for any fatbike if you are going to use it as a fatbike and not a commuter.
Going through sand and snow needs lots of power and you still go at a slower pace. Being able to take advantage of gearing will allow you to use the motor in its most efficient range. Not the conditions a hub motor thrive in.

If you really need a fatbike start with a Bikes Direct bike at minimum. Better quality, better components, not much more expensive. Throwing $1000-$1500-$2000 worth of electric components on a $200 dollar bike seemed liked a good idea to me, but would have been an ugly bite on the ass, with the example I got.

One other thought is the efficiency hit you take. Pedalling that thing I could do less than half the distance of my other pedal bike, granted a 700c Hybrid, but you are using up wh much faster, so getting less range than a more traditional build.
My brain is a bit scattered this morning so I hope that makes sense.

All that said, if you are a sand and snow rider and really want an E-Fattie go for it.
Like Grizzl-E said though, if I could only have one ebike a fattie it won't be and I believed a year ago that it would be the do it all bike. The one bike. It's not. It's a specialized tool.

All the best.
Click to expand...

Then can you recommend me a bike to buy to convert? I really would not want to spend more than $2k on everything also, I was thinking of getting a Bafang BBSHD 1000W Mid Drive Kit, but if I do that id have to spend $1.4k for the drive and the battery >.<. Also any idea why the Cyclone Mid Drive 3000 watt kit on lunacycle.com is cheaper but has more power? Thanks! :D
 
If you still want a fat bike I would get a bikes direct deadeye monster. Actually I just picked one up, nice and cheaper than my boris x5.

For mostly street use get a set of 120tpi vee8 tires, they are pretty cheap. Set them up ghetto tubeless, use a tire tube to seal the rim, not a stans kit. Karl at electric bike blog has a good writeup. That will help alot with the self steer.

I have a cyclone 3k mid drive coming for this new bike. It so much cheaper than a bbshd, but alot cruder.

If you have 2 large to spend you could do the deadeye with vee8's and the bbshd and still have enough for a decent size battery.
 
Actual power on the Cyclone 3000W is dependent on how many watts the battery and controller can deliver to it. It's peak and continuous power levels are high because it has enough iron and copper mass to absorb higher watts without overheating. It costs less than other drive units because it has a very simple construction.

It is large, and the most frequent complaint is that the factory mounting brackets are weak and flexy.
 
To give you the best advice I/we need more info.

Where in the world do you live?
What is your use? Sand, snow, trail bike, commuter? All of the above.
What are your expectations for distance, speed?

The ugly truth is that building a fat ebike is not cheap.
There is at least one member that will tell you you can do it all for under a grand, but don't be fooled.
Quality and safety will cost you near double that.

The hub, battery and bike you've linked are $349+$749+$199= $1300 before shipping and any taxes. Not to mention all the extras that pop up. Meters, torque arms, etc.

If you haven't found this site yet https://electricbike-blog.com read and consume. This guys done more fatbike conversions than anyone I've seen. So much good info there.
 
Couple other thoughts....

The build quality of those Mongoose Dolomites vary widely.
On my example I would not trust the poor welds on the fork to use a front hub motor. In addition to many other issues.

I am not a fan of powerful front DD motors.

The motor you linked is intended for 135mm dropouts. Unfortunely very few fatbike frames have rear 135mm drops. Surly pugsley and Moonlander are a couple, but they will blow your budget to pieces. In the motor description it says you can go upto 150mm, but that's an odd size rear drop for Fatbikes. Seems like 135mm, 170mm and 190mm are the standards, though there are other sizes to complicate things.

The Dolomite is 49 lbs bike before you add any thing. Battery and motor is gonna take that well over 75lbs. In addition to the rolling resistance of those low psi tires the weight isn't helping your effiency any either.

Have you ever ridden a fatbike? I suggest a ride on one before you throw too much money at it. It may not be as enjoyable as imagined.
 
Brentis said:
To give you the best advice I/we need more info.

Where in the world do you live?
What is your use? Sand, snow, trail bike, commuter? All of the above.
What are your expectations for distance, speed?

The ugly truth is that building a fat ebike is not cheap.
There is at least one member that will tell you you can do it all for under a grand, but don't be fooled.
Quality and safety will cost you near double that.

The hub, battery and bike you've linked are $349+$749+$199= $1300 before shipping and any taxes. Not to mention all the extras that pop up. Meters, torque arms, etc.

If you haven't found this site yet https://electricbike-blog.com read and consume. This guys done more fatbike conversions than anyone I've seen. So much good info there.
Click to expand...

I plan to use it on the road and sidewalk going to school, but I also want a bike that could go on grass, dirt, gravel, ect. My old electric bike slid on a small patch of rocks and I fell and got hurt quite a bit from it (took me out of school for 3 days :/). So thats why I want a fat bike, also the LCD on the bike stopped working (like when I turn it on it will just flash)
 
Brentis said:
Couple other thoughts....

The build quality of those Mongoose Dolomites vary widely.
On my example I would not trust the poor welds on the fork to use a front hub motor. In addition to many other issues.

I am not a fan of powerful front DD motors.

The motor you linked is intended for 135mm dropouts. Unfortunely very few fatbike frames have rear 135mm drops. Surly pugsley and Moonlander are a couple, but they will blow your budget to pieces. In the motor description it says you can go upto 150mm, but that's an odd size rear drop for Fatbikes. Seems like 135mm, 170mm and 190mm are the standards, though there are other sizes to complicate things.

The Dolomite is 49 lbs bike before you add any thing. Battery and motor is gonna take that well over 75lbs. In addition to the rolling resistance of those low psi tires the weight isn't helping your effiency any either.

Have you ever ridden a fatbike? I suggest a ride on one before you throw too much money at it. It may not be as enjoyable as imagined.
Click to expand...

Then what about installing a mid drive on it and how hard would it be to install one such as the cyclone or a BBSHD? And no I have not, Isn't it the same thing as a normal bike but with bigger wheels? Also when I went 30+ Mph on my old ebike (Not a fat bike) I had a feeling that it was going to break or something due to how skinny the tires were in comparison to a fat bike or an actual motorcycle
 
spinningmagnets said:
Actual power on the Cyclone 3000W is dependent on how many watts the battery and controller can deliver to it. It's peak and continuous power levels are high because it has enough iron and copper mass to absorb higher watts without overheating. It costs less than other drive units because it has a very simple construction.

It is large, and the most frequent complaint is that the factory mounting brackets are weak and flexy.
Click to expand...

So would you recommend for me to get one? Id have enough money to get a 60v lunacycle battery pack and the cyclone for about the same price as the BBSHD.
 
Grizzl-E said:
If you still want a fat bike I would get a bikes direct deadeye monster. Actually I just picked one up, nice and cheaper than my boris x5.

For mostly street use get a set of 120tpi vee8 tires, they are pretty cheap. Set them up ghetto tubeless, use a tire tube to seal the rim, not a stans kit. Karl at electric bike blog has a good writeup. That will help alot with the self steer.

I have a cyclone 3k mid drive coming for this new bike. It so much cheaper than a bbshd, but alot cruder.

If you have 2 large to spend you could do the deadeye with vee8's and the bbshd and still have enough for a decent size battery.
Click to expand...

Thanks, ill go check out their bikes and yeah if I went with the cyclone id spend about the same as the BBSHD. Also how would I make them tubeless?
 
ArcticWolf_11 said:
I plan to use it on the road and sidewalk going to school, but I also want a bike that could go on grass, dirt, gravel, ect. My old electric bike slid on a small patch of rocks and I fell and got hurt quite a bit from it (took me out of school for 3 days :/). So thats why I want a fat bike, also the LCD on the bike stopped working (like when I turn it on it will just flash)
Click to expand...

In general Fatbikes are intended to offer floatation on soft surfaces, sand and snow. I don't know that it would have prevented your spill.
If I was building a bike for your comutte, I'd use a regular 26" wheeled mountain bike with as wide a tire as fits.
It will be cheaper and more efficient than a fattie.
Fatbikes are the current hot thing. Bikes and parts demand a premium price, especially rubber that borders on ridiculous.
 
ArcticWolf_11 said:
Then what about installing a mid drive on it and how hard would it be to install one such as the cyclone or a BBSHD? And no I have not, Isn't it the same thing as a normal bike but with bigger wheels? Also when I went 30+ Mph on my old ebike (Not a fat bike) I had a feeling that it was going to break or something due to how skinny the tires were in comparison to a fat bike or an actual motorcycle
Click to expand...

cyclone will be harder to install and not be as clean as the BBSHD. There are reports the cyclone being too strong for its mounting bracket. The BBSHD also being a cleaner looking install.

No, I don't think it handles the same as a normal bike, the Dolomite in particular.
30mph on fatbike tires will use them up fast. Check some of the faster fat builds, Drunkskunk comes to mind. I seem to recall him getting 300-500 miles out of a set of rubber. Theyre just not designed for high speeds. They're meant to go slow to moderate speeds at low psi.
 
https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/06/16/go-ghetto-tubeless-on-your-fatbikes-for-15-per-tire-and-30-minutes-of-work/

The tutorial for tubeless. Look around Karls site, most info on e fat bikes on the internet.
 
Brentis said:
ArcticWolf_11 said:
Then what about installing a mid drive on it and how hard would it be to install one such as the cyclone or a BBSHD? And no I have not, Isn't it the same thing as a normal bike but with bigger wheels? Also when I went 30+ Mph on my old ebike (Not a fat bike) I had a feeling that it was going to break or something due to how skinny the tires were in comparison to a fat bike or an actual motorcycle
Click to expand...

cyclone will be harder to install and not be as clean as the BBSHD. There are reports the cyclone being too strong for its mounting bracket. The BBSHD also being a cleaner looking install.

No, I don't think it handles the same as a normal bike, the Dolomite in particular.
30mph on fatbike tires will use them up fast. Check some of the faster fat builds, Drunkskunk comes to mind. I seem to recall him getting 300-500 miles out of a set of rubber. Theyre just not designed for high speeds. They're meant to go slow to moderate speeds at low psi.
Click to expand...

I think im all good, the old tires I had for my old bike wore out pretty quick and if it lasts that long, ill probably have to change them every year, shouldnt be too hard. Also should I go with a mid drive system or a hub motor?
 
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