Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

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agniusm   10 MW

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Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by agniusm » May 26 2016 4:53am

Require to build a trike that could bear 600kg load, with top speed of 10kph. Basically it should drive at walking pace speed with a little bit extra.
I was looking at hub motors and the biggest i found were 600kg load max but i need 600kg load plus vehicle weight which cant be light to bear that load.
I figure, perhaps best option to go with some car diff axle and non hub motor. Suspension is not required.
What sort of power do i require to be able to do small climbs?
Any thoughts appreciated.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by dogman dan » May 26 2016 5:47am

Sounds like time to get out the non hub motor, since you mentioned both 600kg, and hills. You need a low geared tractor. FWIW, what you describe sounds about like what a golf cart does. Golf cart rear end on it?

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agniusm   10 MW

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by agniusm » May 26 2016 9:13am

Thanks. Not to many golf courts arround here so would be hard to get one. Its not that there are hills as such, but few minor inclines. I think its for a band to play on and cruise arround town. What about power then?

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by litespeed » May 26 2016 9:22am

I betcha this would work,

http://www.gngebike.com/60v2500w-2speed-differential

There are a couple others on there as well.

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wesnewell   100 GW

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by wesnewell » May 26 2016 11:37am

A trike has 3 wheels. Put the hub motor on the wheel with the lightest load. That would usually be the single wheel of a cargo trike. 600kg shouldn't be a problem at all.
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Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by dogman dan » May 27 2016 5:31am

On the flat, 600kg, which is over half a ton,, would be no problem. But that much weight, even a slight incline would start really heating a hub motor at that low rpm.

Low geared mid drive, I still think. Quite a lot of weight for a trike.

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by wesnewell » May 27 2016 8:20am

A mxus 3000 6t in a 16" wheel @24V would have a top speed of 10 kph and be able to climb 5% grades with 600kg of weight . I'm assuming this is being designed for some warehouse type environment where there won't be any long steep grades. In that case, the mxus 3000 is a lot of overkill, but should last forever. I would not use a mid drive since you only require a 10kph top speed. It just adds more complexity to the situation including wear on the drive system. There are also many small wheel hub motor solutions that would also work. Some you can find here under hub motor.
http://goldenmotor.com/
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Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
My videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0KW4U ... _G2wQhptMg

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by dafex » May 27 2016 9:21am

A few month ago i have converted an Piaggio Ape 50 Trike with 280kg deadweight and 500 kg total grossweight. Top speed is 45 km/h.

I took a Goldenmotor HPM5000 with a Max-E controller. Max battery current is 80A at 50V. The Original Goldenmotor controller burned out. Thats more then enough power. To reduce motorspeed i took a planetary gearbox. For fine adjustment of topspeed i can change the pulley of the belt drive.
I guess you don't need a differential for that low speed.

My mock-up
_DSCF3407.jpg
Installed
_DSCF4621.jpg
_DSCF4612.jpg
Last edited by dafex on May 27 2016 10:26am, edited 2 times in total.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by teklektik » May 27 2016 9:45am

Here's a thread with an approach using pedicab with converted kart parts.
Chain in a mid-mounted big hubbie using a brake/sprocket adapter so you can use a kart chain completely independent of the rider drive chain, etc.
You've already got lots of room for a drive so getting good gearing doesn't need to rely on wheel selection or issues of putting large diameter hubs in small diameter wheels. Obviously you could use something other than a hub motor for this, but they are readily available and the mounts are identical so a later motor change is not a big deal.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 80#p936014
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 25#p936844
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agniusm   10 MW

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by agniusm » May 28 2016 2:11pm

Thanks. Hub motors as in wheel application is no go. i think its to weak. 600kg load, plus 300kg trike. I need secondary battery to run 220v stuff, sound stuff, o there be speakers, mixer, peope with instruments. So i am playing with almost a ton. I dont even know how the front fork would hold if i have 50/50 or even 40/60 front to rear weight distribution. I bet 5kw would be plenty. After all its torque that matters.

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by teklektik » May 28 2016 6:36pm

agniusm wrote:So i am playing with almost a ton.
I dont even know how the front fork would hold if i have 50/50 or even 40/60 front to rear weight distribution.
This isn't an ebike anymore.
Get over it.
Time for a Harley fork and mcycle parts. :D
agniusm wrote:I bet 5kw would be plenty. After all its torque that matters.
Once again it's the cooling that gets you.
Here's two simulator runs with some quickie guesstimates for a 2000lb vehicle using two MXUS 3K 5T motors. Here the effective wheel size is 8 inches taking the chain gearing and true wheel size into account (as above, the idea is to mid-mount them and chain them up to the axle or jack shaft). The darn thing has respectable efficiency on the flat and could actually go up some minor grades...
BigAssTrike_0pctGrade.png
2 motor estimate --- scrub cursor until LOAD = 2 x MOTOR POWER
BigAssTrike_0pctGrade.png (71.66 KiB) Viewed 1452 times
BigAssTrike_4pctGrade.png
2 motor estimate --- scrub cursor until LOAD = 2 x MOTOR POWER
BigAssTrike_4pctGrade.png (71.46 KiB) Viewed 1452 times
Anyhow - just an example of how you can get fiddle the parameters to get some results from the simulator...
(I just threw a big 100A controller at it to eliminate controller limiting so I could get other parameters jiggled into place - you can back that down to 60A and get the same speeds - the usual trade-offs.)
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agniusm   10 MW

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by agniusm » May 30 2016 3:20am

I haven't considered bike components at all so i have nothing to get over :D
I am considering car like components with custom frame but i don't like the idea using bike hub motors

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by teklektik » May 30 2016 10:16am

The underlying point was to use the simulator to help answer your posed question about power requirements on the flat and small inclines. This can be read directly off the Load Line regardless of whether you choose to address that requirement with hub motors (e.g. turn off all but the black line). Divide the Load Line 'power to propel the vehicle' by the 'net efficiency of controller+motor+drive train' and you get the input power requirements.
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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by Sixinarow » Jun 01 2016 9:51pm

Hi, maybe a little small for your application but I am using a 24v dc, brushed motor/transaxle from monsterscooterparts.com

It hauls 200 pounds at 12mph. Like I said, maybe a bit small for the amount of weight you need to carry.

They sell 90 degree output geared motors. You could put one on each wheel.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by dogman dan » Jun 03 2016 8:39am

it's sounding more and more like an electric pickup truck. That's sort of why I thought at first a scavenged golf cart might do.

Car EV stuff? Some old car that you can get around there, plus it's tranny, then the car motor on an adapter plate. Ideal would be an old VW bug.

Other options, stuff like electric forklift motors, and even used aircraft starter motors can make a truck power EV.

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by LewTwo » Jun 03 2016 2:24pm

Electric Forklift ... loss the forks (they tend to be tippy).
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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by DrkAngel » Jun 05 2016 1:20pm

MY1016z3 motor or dual motors through wheel mount sprockets!
Gear reduction motor - supplies excellent deceleration when throttle released
with 24V 350w @ 308rpm
9T - 11T - 13T - 15T motor sprockets or larger freewheels
28T- 60T wheel sprockets
24V 350w - 33.3V 485w - 36V 525w - 44.4V 650w voltage options

Can be geared for very slow speeds - use calculator at supplied link to determine proper components for desired speed.

See -eTrike as Mobility Scooter

2 speed serial>>parallel switch with dual motors (1 each rear wheel) could allow:
48V 50A controller to supply 24V 50A to each motor for high torque low speed working load
48V 50A controller to supply 48V 25A to each motor for double unloaded speed


(Wheel mount sprockets require spoke wheels! Possible to mount sprocket on vehicle wheels? ... or to crankshaft input on rear axle?)
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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by d8veh » Jun 05 2016 5:23pm

We've done it on Pedicabs using a clone 500w Bafang CST motor (Xofo). You position the motor on a set of drop-outs between the rear axle (diff) and the crank as a jackshaft. We use derailleur gears on the motor because the idea is for the riders to pedal for legal reasons, though there's enough power that they don't need to. We use a 2:1 reduction ratio between the motor and the axle by running a chain on a sprocket fitted to the disk brake fixings. That takes the maximum speed down to about 12 mph, but doubles the torque. You can make the final ratio whatever you want to trade speed for torque. The motor runs at 36v and about 22A. A EM3EV modded MAC, should run happily at 48v and 25A, so would have a lot more power. I think that it'll be enough unless you have steep hills. Here's a picture of our cargo version, which is rated for 380kg all-up:

Image

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Re: Motor suggestions for heavy load, low speed trike

Post by LewTwo » Jun 07 2016 5:14pm

A couple of more entries ....
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/h ... 0.0.PTEq0R
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/T ... 0.0.PTEq0R
rearend.png
rearend.png (111.97 KiB) Viewed 1238 times
The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
Weight Wennie E-Bike https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p1173723
Shaft Drive Grocery Getter https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=90718
...and thanks to Justin!

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