Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

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Knuckles   10 kW

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Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Knuckles » Jan 19 2009 5:41pm

The Infineon has Regenerative Braking built into the software programming.
Turns out it was there all along. I could never get it to work, however, because I run at 72V.

Well I hacked that limit. The Infineon is programmed to limit regen voltage to a max of about 60 volts.
So for a 48V battery system (that will accept a reverse current) the regen was there all along.
I am able to increase the MAX regen limit up to about 85V.
I do this by "tricking" the MCU by altering the R12 LVC resistor.
Alter_R12.jpg
Alter_R12.jpg (31.64 KiB) Viewed 10481 times
Regen Braking can be programmed to work with the eBrakes and the throttle.
It is activated by jumpering connections on the Infineon pcb.

Jumping (or connecting a switch) from BK to GND activates the Regen braking feature.
Jumpers.jpg
Jumpers.jpg (54.46 KiB) Viewed 9739 times
So for now ... I can re-program the Infineon to have an LVC= 29V with a max regen voltage of just under 90 volts.
At the max programmable regen value it really slows the bike down (to a dead stop).
All the energy goes back to the battery. I can basically "brake by wire". Very cool.

Other available programmable features on the Infineon are ...
LVC Settings
Max Current
Cruise Control
Multi Speed Function
Reverse
Last edited by Knuckles on Jan 28 2009 6:05pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Knuckles » Jan 19 2009 5:41pm

R12 Circuit explained in detail here ... http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 45#p127913
(Bump forward)
Last edited by Knuckles on Jan 28 2009 6:06pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Knuckles » Jan 19 2009 5:42pm

* Reserved *
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by The Stig » Jan 19 2009 9:29pm

What non-freewheel geared hub motors could the Regen be used with?

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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Knuckles » Jan 19 2009 10:54pm

Are there any geared motors without an internal freewheel?

Gosh! I do not know of any. Kind of cool if there was.
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Mathurin » Jan 19 2009 11:11pm

You have to know, not fear, that someday you are going to die. Until you know that and embrace that, you are useless. - Tyler Durden, Fight club. Ditch the fake identity you've created for yourself, walk your own way in a society of mindless drones to become real, you are not your social status.

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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Knuckles » Jan 19 2009 11:34pm

Geared Regen ... AWESOME!
"This motor comes with two nylon and one metal planetary gear"

Excellent!

Time for Brett to get his Infineon sh*t together! :D
I have always been a friend to my mates in AU.
Let's Rock'n'Rolla

FNA from NY
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by geoff57 » Jan 20 2009 6:16am

hi
I was on with the supplier of the infineons for the UK and US thats Team Hybrid and Knuckles.
after alot of comunication problems I got my point across to him, this is more than just regen it is several Electronic Braking Systems all with a limmit programed in by the original board designers who also sell there own version of the infineon to the chinese market as I found while googling, the limmit that was chosen was because they fit as standard 63v capasitors in the infineon using regen above 63v would blow them up so the MCU chip was programed so that if it sensed a battery of greater than 60v then the whole EBS section would be disabled.
All infineons sold in the US and the UK by us have 100v capasitors in them so this limmit should be raised, a simple bit of programming changing one or two lines of code, our supplier is going to ask the factory if the MCU software can be changed to alow for up to 85v EBS operation, the line has to be drawn somwhere.

a point of note
while reading through the chinese blogs and forums I found on the forums one of the first things they all said was replace the 63v capasitors with 100v capasitors.

Geoff
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by philf » Jan 20 2009 7:31am

Well, this *is* exciting.

Thanks, Knuckles!

I don't know if I posted this elsewhere, so forgive me if it's redundant...

One of the things I did discover while poking around inside the controller (looking for the elusive status feedback) was that the pad marked "AUX" (which is visible under the 2.2K resistor in your photo above) behaves interestingly. If you connect an LED to it through a 220 Ohm resistor, you'll see that comes on briefly when the controller is first powered up, and then is relit whenever a regen situation occurs. It comes on solid when you coast, for example.

I thought this was an indication of a possible regen feature, but assumed by te very name of the pad - AUX - that it was intended to supply external circuitry to control regen. Interesting.

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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by recumbent » Jan 21 2009 12:30am

Since i only run my bike at the conservative sweet spot of 48 volts, all we need to do is run a switch across "gnd" and "bk" pads, then the motor will start brakeing?

Although i would probly not do this mod, would we have to wire a resistor to control the braking power of the regen?

I like this controler more and more, gotta order me one before summer comes around 8)
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Knuckles » Jan 21 2009 9:42am

The degree of regen is software set using the PC flash cable.

There are 3 settings ... EBS Level: 0, 1, and 2 (low medium and high).
I set the level to "2" by default (perfect setting for a 26" wheel).
Lower values (0 or 1) may be better for smaller diameter wheels.
EBS_Level.jpg
EBS_Level.jpg (18.85 KiB) Viewed 9474 times
When the eBrakes are applied the Direct Drive hub motor will slow down to a complete stop.
(Max regen voltage is capped at 60V but can be increased to higher values by altering the R12 resistor value.)
Slip_Current_Charge_Mode.jpg
Slip_Current_Charge_Mode.jpg (17.11 KiB) Viewed 9466 times
The Slip Current Charge Mode feature is either "ON or OFF" and allows regen from the throttle.
Throttling back when cruising will regen the Direct Drive hub motor and slow it down to about 15% of full speed.

The eBrake regen and the Throttle regen act independent of each other.
I set the Throttle regen to "OFF" by default (I like to coast freely when throttled back).
It is just a matter of personal preference.

Jumping the "BK to GND" activates the regen feature.
This can be done with an external switch or be made permanent with a soldered jumper.
BK_to_GND.jpg
BK_to_GND.jpg (72.27 KiB) Viewed 9466 times
Important: Regen Braking ONLY works if the battery can accept a reverse current.
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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by fechter » Jan 21 2009 9:58am

Knuckles wrote:
Jumping the "BK to GND" activates the regen feature.
This can be done with an external switch or be made permanent with a soldered jumper.
Jumpers.jpg
What happens if you permanently jumper it? Doesn't that override the throttle?

I had the "always on" kind of regen on my Zappy scooter and really did not like it. You can get used to it, but being able to coast is a big advantage if you ask me. Wiring into a brake lever swtich would make much more sense. If you get things adjusted right, you should be able to activate regen by barely pulling the lever so the mechanical brakes are not making contact yet. Squeeze a bit more and you get both.

Any idea what kind of regen current you're getting into the batteries?
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Knuckles » Jan 21 2009 10:39am

Neither the throttle regen or the hand eBrake will be active unless the BK to GND circuit is closed.

Once the BK to GND is closed regen will occur whenever the eBrake is slightly closed.
I also rigged up a push button to activate regen without touching the brake levers.

The throttle regen is disabled by setting the "Only fake Indicate" (i.e. throttle regen OFF)

I have not measured the regen current but the braking effect is significant and the battery voltage goes up above nominal.
A Cycle Analyst would do the trick of measuring the regen current.

The faster you are going the more the regen braking effect.

Also (I suspect) lower battery voltages like 48V will regen more pronouncedly than higher voltages like 72V.
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Tiberius » Jan 21 2009 10:59am

Hi Knuckles,

This sounds really interesting; I'm going to have to get one of these and play with it in my lab.

Nick

(Of course, I'm only really posting to get the two avatars together)

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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by philf » Jan 21 2009 1:27pm

This is all too cool...

The cable you are using to do the programming I believe appears elsewhere on this site (haven't gone looking for it again), but I seem to recall there being a circuit board inside the DB9 shell for the serial connector that wasn't further discussed.

Anyone have the schematic of what the thing inside the connector looks like? I'm guessing it's just a MAX232, or something similar, to get the +/-12V RS232 voltages down to TTL level. Is that it?

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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Knuckles » Jan 21 2009 4:53pm

PC_2_Infineon_Flash_Connector.jpg
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by recumbent » Jan 21 2009 4:58pm

You probably could rig the regen as an ani-theft device, like a switch hidden under your controler.

To summerize: all we have to do, is solder a wire to the "gnd" and "bk", run the wires to the handlebars, wire them to a springloaded pushbutton, and push the button to get regen? This is just too good to be true.
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by rkosiorek » Jan 21 2009 5:14pm

i'm with philf. is there a schematic anywhere for the actual circuit? please post it. i also have one of your controllers and i am interested in playing a little bit.

rick
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by geoff57 » Jan 21 2009 5:19pm

hi
it seems anti-theft is elsewhere on the board we are still working on it we know it is there we just cant find it yet.
more infomation will follow when we have it.

you want a copy of the actual circuit diagram not just a picture of the board with what has been identified on it.

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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by ZapPat » Jan 22 2009 7:33am

So how do we make that serial programming dongle anyways, does the DB-9 connector just have a level converter (MAX232 type chip) inside it? I would guess so, unless the infinion board has a converter chip on it. Also, the two "data" pins are not identified as TX and RX - which are they?

I want to see how this thing works in regen mode so I can compare to my own design. It's kind of funny that it has so many features that we didn't even know existed until now... I guess poor communications due to the language barrier issue? It'll be fun to play with anyways!

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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by fechter » Jan 22 2009 9:15am

ZapPat wrote:So how do we make that serial programming dongle anyways, does the DB-9 connector just have a level converter (MAX232 type chip) inside it? I would guess so, unless the infinion board has a converter chip on it. Also, the two "data" pins are not identified as TX and RX - which are they?
Take apart the DB-9 connector and take a close-up picture of the guts. We can reverse engineer this.

I think it could be very bad if your data connection was flaky when sending code. It might be worthwhile to solder some pins or wires into the holes. You could even extend the connection to outside the case to allow programming while installed on the bike.

The data connection is configured like this:
Infineon Serial Connection.jpg
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Knuckles » Jan 22 2009 9:53am

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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by philf » Jan 22 2009 12:38pm

I'm pretty confident I know what's in there... Going to put it on the breadboard this weekend and will post the results.

I agree with fechter, though - the first order of business is to put a proper pin header on the controller board.

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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Knuckles » Jan 24 2009 9:17am

Image

The COM port connector has a small chip and pcb inside.
It may not be possible to "hack".
Interface_Chip_1.jpg
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Interface_Chip_2.jpg
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To buy a "PC to Infineon" Interface cable just contact Keywin ... ecrazyman@gmail.com
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Re: Infineon has REGEN BRAKING (and more)

Post by Fishmasterdan » Jan 24 2009 9:58am

So why cant you get regen with a geared motor?? Is there a mechanical thing inside the motor that engages the motor with the throttle is on?? If that is true why can you parrallel that.??

Sorry for the dumb question.

Knuckles I am guy that called you earlier this week.

Dan W

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