hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

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xadmx   1 kW

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hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by xadmx » Oct 04 2016 6:04am

hi what are people doing with motor cut out switch with there hydraulic brakes i have a set of hope brakes i really want to use, is there a kit i can buy before i start to think about bodging something together :D.

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by izeman » Oct 04 2016 6:12am

there is a set for magura brakes i know of, but the problem is that those use mineral oil afaik, and everyone else uses brake fluid. so the fluid will eat up the rubber sealings and stuff. :(

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by amberwolf » Oct 05 2016 2:42pm

Sorry I couldn't help.
Several threads in this with options

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/searc ... mit=Search

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by justin_le » Feb 07 2017 9:37pm

xadmx wrote:hi what are people doing with motor cut out switch with there hydraulic brakes i have a set of hope brakes i really want to use, is there a kit i can buy before i start to think about bodging something together :D.
One of the ES members here Obiwan007 actually came up with a reasonably slick solution to this which we've just recently helped him bring to market, called the Tripwire:
http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/tripwire.html
you can see it installed on his build here
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1222445

The pull type installs really clean and discretely, while most hydraulic levers require the push device. That one is a little bit more DIY looking since the cable is visible inside the brake lever but it does the trick and doesn't require messing with the hydraulic lines like you need with a pressure switch.

We've also played around a bit having small tactile membrane buttons on the front of the brake lever arm so that when you pull the brakes your finger pressure naturally closes the switch circuit. Then it's not tied in in any way to the brake pivoting mechanism, but in practice it didn't work nearly as well as hoped.
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by amberwolf » Feb 07 2017 10:44pm

What would be pretty nice is a strip along the front edge of the lever that isn't just a switch, but an analog sensor that as you etiher grip more of it (more fingers on it) or move a finger "down" the lever with a little pressure (but not enough to really engage the physical brakes yet) it would output an analog signal for controllers that have separate analog braking inputs for proportional braking.

It would take a small bit of getting used to, but would allow one to use purely regen braking with the same levers used for physical braking, first just a little, then more as sensor output increases, until regen is maxed out, and then if that's still not enough braking, one can continue applying the regen while then partially or fully engaging physical braking.


That's the kind of thing I'd like to do on CrazyBike2, which is 2WD, with independent front and rear throttles and brakes, and SB Cruiser, which is also 2WD but with independent left and right throttles but not yet independent brakes (will be when the rebuild is done). (and SBC has a separate mechanical brake on the front wheel).

Presently both also have a separate lever that's for the brakelight, so I can trigger that without triggering the regen, to help aggressive drivers figure out when to back off a bit ;) , because I haven't got any ebrake levers that are any good as mechanical levers, and I haven't made a reliable switch separate from the levers to do it; less time to learn the extra lever than deal with the reliability problems.


I've had some ideas on how to do the analog sensor, like adapting a sensor strip used on some musical instruments as a pitchbend strip, but I haven't pursued it with any design/testing yet. (dunno when that might happen; I don't yet have a pair of controllers that can do proportional braking).

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justin_le   10 MW

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by justin_le » Feb 09 2017 9:26pm

amberwolf wrote:What would be pretty nice is a strip along the front edge of the lever that isn't just a switch, but an analog sensor that as you etiher grip more of it (more fingers on it) or move a finger "down" the lever with a little pressure (but not enough to really engage the physical brakes yet) it would output an analog signal for controllers that have separate analog braking inputs for proportional braking.
We kinda tried that too, here's a brake lever with a touch sensitive potentiometer on the front face so that your finger position affects the effective pot wiper position.
Linear Pot Ebrake.jpg
Linear Pot Ebrake.jpg (111.43 KiB) Viewed 2695 times
It didn't work very well but that was just one quick and dirty experiment. I think it would be better if instead of on the front face of the lever, the proportional regen pad was on the top surface. Then you press down with your fingers in a direction that doesn't cause the lever to close for regulating the regen, unless you want it to activate mechanically too and then pull the lever in while also pushing down. One of the main issues with this kind of approach is that the surface of brake levers are all uniquely curved and shaped making it hard to affix a standardized strip sensor material.
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
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motomech   1 GW

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by motomech » Feb 10 2017 4:14am

Motomech

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https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
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Baron   100 W

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by Baron » Feb 10 2017 11:23am

But those are mechanical brakes, what about hydraulic? Is there a recommended magnetic switch that works well for this purpose?

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by WoodlandHills » Feb 10 2017 11:30am

Luna sensors, a couple of tiny magnets and some hot glue. Worked well for a year so far. I have the same setup on my mechanical brakes too.


image.jpeg

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by motomech » Feb 10 2017 1:54pm

Baron wrote:
But those are mechanical brakes, what about hydraulic? Is there a recommended magnetic switch that works well for this purpose?
Didn't you read the linked thread?
You take the sensor and magnet off and epoxy them on your existing hydro levers.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by Chalo » Feb 10 2017 2:54pm

izeman wrote:there is a set for magura brakes i know of, but the problem is that those use mineral oil afaik, and everyone else uses brake fluid.
Shimano brakes also use mineral oil.

DOT 5 silicone fluid can be used instead of oil or glycol fluid in systems that mix components of both kinds.
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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by Baron » Feb 10 2017 10:58pm

motomech wrote:
Baron wrote:
But those are mechanical brakes, what about hydraulic? Is there a recommended magnetic switch that works well for this purpose?
Didn't you read the linked thread?
You take the sensor and magnet off and epoxy them on your existing hydro levers.
Gotcha, but you don't have to buy those brakes just to get the sensor. I did my own research and it looks like the idea is to use a reed switch, N.C. (normally closed) wired as ebrakes and glue a small magnet to your brake lever. The reed switch is open while the magnet is near, and closed when the magnet is moved away which triggers the ebrakes/regen to kick in. Correct?

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motomech   1 GW

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by motomech » Feb 11 2017 12:07am

Do not the Ebrake leads from the controller come dis-connected(No jumper)?
That would lead me to believe that the "cut" is activated when the circuit is completed.
By the time that you figure out the direction of the sensors listed by various vendors, you could have those $7 levers on the way.
What's your time worth?
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by Baron » Feb 11 2017 2:39am

motomech wrote:Do not the Ebrake leads from the controller come dis-connected(No jumper)?
That would lead me to believe that the "cut" is activated when the circuit is completed.
By the time that you figure out the direction of the sensors listed by various vendors, you could have those $7 levers on the way.
What's your time worth?
Right, closing the circuit completes it and activates the ebrake/regen. So an N.C. reed switch circuit is closed when the magnet moves away (when you pull the brake lever). It looks like the reed switches on ebay come with 3 legs, so you can wire them as either N.O. or N.C. I am pretty sure N.C. is what you want.
http://www.explainthatstuff.com/howreed ... swork.html

You're right, those $7 brake levers are a simple plug-and-play solution, but you still have to buy magnets? Those levers are $14 a pair, and some reed switches are about a third of that for a pack of 20.

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motomech   1 GW

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by motomech » Feb 11 2017 9:29pm

Noooooo,
This is like pulling teeth.
Again, you take the sensors(2) and the magnets (2) off the $7 A PAIR donor levers and mount them on your hydro levers :roll:
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by panurge » May 11 2017 6:27am

Hello there.
I have made the e-brake lever with the sensor and magnets off standard ebrake donor levers too.
it works well but is not so clean.

However yesterday I have mounted the first tripwire in a Shimano XT lever and I've found a super straightforward method to attach it. Since I do not liked the way the push tripwire is fixed with that wire in the gap between the lever and the grip, I've ordered the pull version.

Basically the shimano levers have a small adjusting wheel for the lever throw. The small wheel has a series of small slots one of which is a hole. The tripwire end just pass thru that hole perfectly allowing to secure it the other side in many way. I've used a small ziptie.
That is really a clean mount now!
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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by handbaked » May 12 2017 3:42pm

King meter sell an inline sensor for hydraulic brakes. I am waiting for one to arrive to see how good it is

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by Tats » May 13 2017 3:02am

Using a tripwire 'push' for last 1,200 kms - works like a dream.

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by bamitsram » May 16 2017 2:35am

I used motorcycle levers that have the switch for brake lights, and used a thread adaptor so i could put the banjo bolt from my hope brakes into it.

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by rojitor » May 16 2017 3:44am

Image
I always loved Those. You can easily push the button while braking.

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by agniusm » May 21 2017 1:37am

This is what i did:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... ke#p886945

Another opriin would be to set reed switch to engage just by pressing brake lever till its not engaged, use change over type so the throttle is switched to variable regen.

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by d8veh » May 21 2017 3:17am


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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by panurge » May 24 2017 7:51am

d8veh wrote:These solve everything:

https://www.pasionebike.com/products/pa ... bike-parts
True. Mostly for OEMs and assemblers, However, as final customer or DIYer, looking at the price...I'd probably still prefer a single or even a double tripwire..... or opt for a custom cheap solution if costs are a true concern.
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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by kingjamez » May 24 2017 10:11am

I've been using a pull Tripwire on my Shimano SLX brakes with great success. Once you get it installed, it just works. Simple, cheap, fast, and works on almost any brake setup.

-Jim

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Re: hydraulic brake motor cut sensors

Post by justin_le » Jun 07 2017 5:22am

panurge wrote: However yesterday I have mounted the first tripwire in a Shimano XT lever and I've found a super straightforward method to attach it.
Hey Panurge, nicely done and thanks for sharing. I agree too that the push style trip-wire, while functional for these hydraulic brakes, doesn't have nearly as clean of an installed look as the pull type. So hydraulic brake levers like the Shimano XT you got with a pivot point that allows some pulling action can benefit from an installation using the pull style tripwire, and the trick of securing it to the adjustment wheel is great (assuming of course that you don't need to turn and adjust the knob too often after it's installed!)
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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