1/8" chain slipping on 3/32 chainring

Harold25

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Dec 16, 2013
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I have a new Internally Geared Hub with 1/8" kog and my front chain ring is 3/32 for multi-speed use. I've tightened the chain tension with the old derailleur but the chain still slips when I put moderate pressure on the peddles. I've read that the 1/8" chain works fine with 3/32 chain-rings, and the alignment seems to be center correctly as well, but I'm getting some awful slippage. Anyone have some ideas?

I"m going to try a single speed chain ring, but If everyone says the 3/32 chain ring works, I don't understand why mine doesn't.
 
That shouldn’t be happening. Here are some things to check:

Was everything fine before you have installer the hub?
Could the chainring or chain be worn?
Did you shorten the chain?
Are you sure that the slippage is at the chainring and not at the rear cog or inside the hub?

Avner.
 
Hillhater said:
Are You saying the chain is slipping on the front chain ring ?...that is unusual.!
Check for tight/ seized/ stiff links in the chain and maybe lube it a little.
Also look for wear on the sprocket teeth.

the sprocket and chain are brand new
 
ferret said:
That shouldn’t be happening. Here are some things to check:

Was everything fine before you have installer the hub?
Could the chainring or chain be worn?
Did you shorten the chain?
Are you sure that the slippage is at the chainring and not at the rear cog or inside the hub?

Avner.


Everything was fine before we installed the hub, but installing the hub requires use of 1/8" chain. So the chain was changed from 3/32 to 1/8 and it's brand new with the hub.
The Chainring is brand new as well.
The chain has been shortened to tighten up the rear tensioner.
And the slippage is not happening at the rear or inside the hub.
 
Harold, I've been following this discussion and even though you don't think the slippage is at the back I have to believe that that is where the problem originates, and then maybe causes a skip on the front chain ring. My best guess is that something is wrong at the derailleur tensioner. An easy check would be to remove the tensioner completely (I'm assuming you just have a single chain ring up front) and shorten the chain as much as possible.

Almost three years ago I set up a 7 speed bike with a BBS02 crank drive for my sister. It worked okay, but since I had a new Nexus 8 speed IGH on the shelf I installed that before I gave the bike to her. I removed the entire derailleur system and did not install any tensioner. I don't remember the rear dropout details, but there was very little adjustment available, I think they were sort of slanted. Anyway, there have not been any chain issues at all. When I was visiting earlier this year the chain had a lot of slack, but still no problems, and she has to climb some 20% grades on every ride, but I did recommend she take it to her LBS and have the chain shortened. The BBS02 chain wheel is narrow enough for a 9 speed chain and I left the original 7 speed chain on the bike (don't know the chain wheel/cog sizes without checking).

I did have some chain slippage at the rear cog on my mid-drive Rover tadpole. It was hard to find, and it was set up the same as my Path tadpole. Neither one had any tensioners on the chain. Turned out there was too much boom/frame flex on the Rover when hard pedal power (on 15 to 20% grades) was being added and the fix was to add a simple (not derailleur) tensioner to it.

Don't know if any of this helps, but good luck on getting your problem sorted out. :D
 
Rassy said:
Harold, I've been following this discussion and even though you don't think the slippage is at the back I have to believe that that is where the problem originates, and then maybe causes a skip on the front chain ring. My best guess is that something is wrong at the derailleur tensioner. An easy check would be to remove the tensioner completely (I'm assuming you just have a single chain ring up front) and shorten the chain as much as possible.

Almost three years ago I set up a 7 speed bike with a BBS02 crank drive for my sister. It worked okay, but since I had a new Nexus 8 speed IGH on the shelf I installed that before I gave the bike to her. I removed the entire derailleur system and did not install any tensioner. I don't remember the rear dropout details, but there was very little adjustment available, I think they were sort of slanted. Anyway, there have not been any chain issues at all. When I was visiting earlier this year the chain had a lot of slack, but still no problems, and she has to climb some 20% grades on every ride, but I did recommend she take it to her LBS and have the chain shortened. The BBS02 chain wheel is narrow enough for a 9 speed chain and I left the original 7 speed chain on the bike (don't know the chain wheel/cog sizes without checking).

I did have some chain slippage at the rear cog on my mid-drive Rover tadpole. It was hard to find, and it was set up the same as my Path tadpole. Neither one had any tensioners on the chain. Turned out there was too much boom/frame flex on the Rover when hard pedal power (on 15 to 20% grades) was being added and the fix was to add a simple (not derailleur) tensioner to it.

Don't know if any of this helps, but good luck on getting your problem sorted out. :D

I'll take a look at it again, I know the bike flexes alot under pedal power, I just don't understand why a derailleur isn't the same as a tensioner in this case.
 
If the chain is worn, it will stretch and be longer than when it was new. It doesn't have to be much wear before you encounter a condition where only one or two links are actually applying force to the sprocket teeth. The trailing section of chain that is wrapped around the rest of the sprocket may "look like" it is doing its job, but only the top two links may be fully engaged.

If this is the case (and I don't know if it is), then a new chain might help...as long as the sprocket isn't too work also (a worn sprocket may take on a "saw" like shape to the teeth)
 
Harold25 said:
I'll take a look at it again, I know the bike flexes alot under pedal power, I just don't understand why a derailleur isn't the same as a tensioner in this case.

A derailleur does a better job than a tensioner that pulls down (which is almost all of them). The derailleur doesn't reduce wrap as much as a down-pulling tensioner, and in some cases can increase it.

If your 1/8" chain is fouling the derailleur cage at any point, that could cause the skipping you observe. Derailleurs are only designed let 3/32 chain pass through.

Derailleurs add yet another element that must be correctly aligned to keep the chain in plane. Make sure the cage is parallel to the wheel.
 
Harold25 said:
Hillhater said:
Are You saying the chain is slipping on the front chain ring ?...that is unusual.!
Check for tight/ seized/ stiff links in the chain and maybe lube it a little.
Also look for wear on the sprocket teeth.

the sprocket and chain are brand new

It wouldnt be the first time a new chain had stiff or seized links !...double check
Ditto the sprocket for damaged teeth or bad machining.
 
THe OP did not tell what IGH he is using. There are 3/32 cogs available for SA. I am running a 3/32 chain on my SA 3 speed hub without any tensioner but I did have to get a half-link chain in order to adjust the proper length.
 
LewTwo said:
THe OP did not tell what IGH he is using. There are 3/32 cogs available for SA. I am running a 3/32 chain on my SA 3 speed hub without any tensioner but I did have to get a half-link chain in order to adjust the proper length.

Sorry, It's a RX-RK5
 
Nice ....
I note that the specifications sheet list 3/32 cogs. Might one of those resolve your problems ?

Reference:
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/products/detail/rx-rk5
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/files/catalog/files/85/SPECIFICATIONS%20-%20IGH%20C50.pdf

[strike]saw this note elsewhere:
Their 5 speed hubs, the 1:1 is in the middle, with 2 reduction gears, 2 overdrive gears..
and the hub cogs are the 3 speed type , so a range from 13 to 21 teeth can be selected to match with the crank chainring size, to get the range the hub provides where you want it to be..

Options:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007WMYXAM 3/32" - 22 tooth
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003RLLMKG 3/32" - 19 tooth
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003RLFZJU 3/32" - 18 tooth
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003RLLMF6 3/32" - 16 tooth[/strike]

Per this post it seems the this HUB uses a larger inside diameter cog. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76354
 
LewTwo said:
Nice ....
I note that the specifications sheet list 3/32 cogs. Might one of those resolve your problems ?

Reference:
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/products/detail/rx-rk5
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/files/catalog/files/85/SPECIFICATIONS%20-%20IGH%20C50.pdf

I'm using the cog it came with... and the front chain ring is 3/32. 3/32 chain would not fit the rear cog
 
LewTwo said:
Nice ....
I note that the specifications sheet list 3/32 cogs. Might one of those resolve your problems ?

Reference:
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/products/detail/rx-rk5
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/files/catalog/files/85/SPECIFICATIONS%20-%20IGH%20C50.pdf

[strike]saw this note elsewhere:
Their 5 speed hubs, the 1:1 is in the middle, with 2 reduction gears, 2 overdrive gears..
and the hub cogs are the 3 speed type , so a range from 13 to 21 teeth can be selected to match with the crank chainring size, to get the range the hub provides where you want it to be..

Options:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007WMYXAM 3/32" - 22 tooth
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003RLLMKG 3/32" - 19 tooth
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003RLFZJU 3/32" - 18 tooth
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003RLLMF6 3/32" - 16 tooth[/strike]

Per this post it seems the this HUB uses a larger inside diameter cog. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76354

This is correct, the RX-RK5/C-50 rotary hub uses a unique cog that will not interchange with any other hub. I have not been able to find any other size cog than the 18t that come with the hub. In fact, the only way I was able to get a spare 18t cog to modify into a 32t cog was to email SA directly since they were not available anywhere. The SA website shows several different sprockets in 1/8" and 3/32" in flat and offset, but they are still not in production as best as I can tell.
 
I solved the problem by not using a derailleur or tensioner. It's pretty tight, I just hope it doesn't break something.
 
Another question though. How are you supposed to shift these Internally Geared Hubs? I never shift under motor load, but I heard somewhere that they only actually shift gears when the hub is off-loaded.

Before I had an internally geared hub, I had a standard 9 speed cassette, and I'd shift it but letting off the throttle and peddling, so as not to damage the gears or derailleur. I've been shifting the new internally geared hub this same way, even though I've heard it shifts best completely unloaded.....

Any insight?
 
A lot like a manual transmission in a car, it is never a good idea to shift with the motor engaged (i.e pressure on the teeth). That being said I rarely pay attention to my shifting. Having ridden 3 speed IGHs since the mid 1960s, I reckon it is ingrained into my muscle memory by now.

... and with an E-Bike I do not shift very often anyway.
 
After reading the Sturmey Manual here: http://www.sturmey-archer.com/files/catalog/files/85/MANUAL - 5 SPEED ROTARY HUBS.pdf I can see there have been some mistakes when installing it. It says in the manual Step 4: ) "If the bicycle has reversed or standard rear fork ends, rotate
the shifter cable adjuster, until the two yellow marks at the
hub are aligned. If the bicycle has vertical dropouts,
the yellow mark on the cable drum, must be aligned with
the red mark on the cone locator. "

My bike has vertical dropouts and the yellow is aligned with yellow... does anyone know how much this affects the alignment? I'm wondering if this is the problem. Also, I'm not sure if the fullcrum lever was aligned with vertical dropouts in mind... Would any of this affect the alignment or dropping of the chain? I might have to take it apart and look at it, but from what I can tell this looks like it only affects the shifting.
 
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