Offroader wrote:The deal with Mid-drive is that I think they still are a few years away. I personally don't like the fact that I can't use a Max-E controller with them, I really love the features of the Max-e, including the easy charging, sin wave silent operation, plus many other features.
I don't like the idea of losing regenerative braking with a mid-drive, but I could probably live with that for the better handling.
The drive trains for the mid drive kind of suck. I heard you can't really do wheelies easy with mid-drive because of a delay in the drive trains.
Basically, mid-drives need a few years to get perfected, they are getting improved quickly now as many people are working on them, but they just aren't there yet.
I think the time is just right for mid drives. Even hi powered ones. With regen, stable drive and wheelie capabilities. And certainly you can use your Adaptto if you so like for some mid motors. Its about max rpm and pole counts.
Some mid drive motors are able to use Max-E controller. Iirc the max E-Rpm of Max-E is around 70.000.
ES wiki wrote:ERPM = Electrical RPM or eRPM is calculated by multiplying the number of pole pairs by the actual RPM:
eRPM = pole pairs * RPM
It can be a limiting factor in controller selection for high RPM and/or pole count motors (usually RC-derived designs). using the [Golden Motor HPM-10KW] as an example:
eRPM = 4 x 6000 = 48.000
To be honest today I think if you aim for >10 kw for a mid drive it will come at a cost. Either cost, weight, noise or a combination of this. Sure you can go with Astro 3220, probably the lightest and most powerful motor around, supposedly does 12-14 kw peak (few sec only but then again in a few sec u r @top speed). But Astro ain't silent. Also you are pretty much locked to one specific ESC to get the most out of that motor, like Matt has done. Then you need reduction as motor runs at 10.000 Rpm. If you are ok with the sound from Astro a 3220 or multiple 3220's will give insane power to weight ratio. You could go Davinci drive or tangentdrive if you like something ready made. Expect costs to be from 900-2xxx $ for a complete driveunit with reduction and motor.
There are others too, like the Joby motors. Joby motors are very powerful yet lightweight. One ES member is pushing 20 kw or slightly more on a Joby build. Can't remember who. Those Joby motors is about 1200-2500 $ iirc. And you can your Joby custom build to your needs.
So lets look at the Golden Motor HPM-10KW. This 20 kw peak motor has 8 poles, so should mean 4 pole pairs.
So even run at max rpm @6.000 the e-rpm = 48.000. That means you could use Max-E controller should you so wish. Using stock firmware however you will top out @ 14 kw or so iirc. Sad really for a motor that can do 20 kw. So for this motor either use a more powerful controller or consider using unlocked firmware with adaptto get closer to the 20 kw peak. The Golden motor is about 600 $. Seems like a great buy. And as a lefty you will have regen as well. This motor can be either air or water cooled.
Don't forget the DLC 28. > 30 kw peak output. 17 kilos. But hey. Weight is centralized. There is or should be soon a DLC 28 clone, improved and even more capable. Peaks at >40 kw. 1300 $ iirc. That clone motor might very well be one of the hottest thing around for the 2017. It will give you dirt bike power.
If you got a left side drive that is not connected to your crank and pedals I can't see any reason as to not use regen. Left side drive should give you regen right out of the box, permitted the controller you use allows regen. Rc ESC usually don't allow regen, most ebike controllers do.
About the wheelie, bzwhindtalker does wheelie all the time on his LMX bikes. Several BHT builds have shown great wheelies. Astro builds done wheelies. Even the right side tangendrive with Astro 32xx does wheelie. You could be right for some builds when it comes to builds that run their mid power via crank and stock bike chain/sprockets. But if you look hard I would be surprised if there ain't no one doing wheelie with BBSHD, BigBlocks, Bafangs, Cyclones etc.
The only down side I see for mid drives is the lack of ready made frame kits for mid drive. If there was a Vector, Qulibix, NYX etc frame kit purpose build for mid drives I think we would see a real growing number of hi powered mid drives. The next step for frame designers will have to be to step up and make frames for mid drives, tbh I am kind of surprised we haven't really seen those around already.