Sondors Fat to Leaf Motor 1500w kit.

L

loudog3114

1 mW
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
12
I got a sondors ebike a while ago and immediately installed the Luna 25A hot rod controller, LCD, and a 52v/20ah triangle battery from electro bike world. I wanted more speed so I got the $400 leafbike 1500w fat bike DIY kit and I am totally underwhelmed, to the point I think something must be misconfigured. The hot rodded sondors motor did 1300w under heavy load and about 27mph top speed. This motor will only do 1600 watt under heavy load and somewhere around 33mph. Every video and review I see shows this motor doing 2500-3000 watts, so I am not sure what's going on with mine. I already adjusted C5 to 10, it's there anything else on the LCD I can change to get more watts sent to the motor? My battery manufacturer assures me it should be capable of a 100 amp draw.
 
Don't know. Doesn't say on the site and I wasn't asked if I would prefer one or the other.
 
Do you really want to go faster than 33mph on a Sondors? haha
How many amps does the display say the controller is drawing from a dead stop how many amps does it the controller say it is drawing at top speed?
 
Well it's really about acceleration. There is none. It's the same as the 350w motor. I'm a motorcycle guy so 33mph is crawling. I only see watts, not sure how to display amps. Watts peaks at 1700 now under heavy load (me on a steep hill). Not sure about at cruising speed yet.
 
Get a $20 watt meter and put it on the battery to really see how many max amps you are pulling. The volts will stay the same (with some minor sag), it is the amps you want for hard acceleration, and they go up and down as you ride and accelerate.
 
loudog3114 said:
Well it's really about acceleration. There is none. It's the same as the 350w motor. I'm a motorcycle guy so 33mph is crawling. I only see watts, not sure how to display amps. Watts peaks at 1700 now under heavy load (me on a steep hill). Not sure about at cruising speed yet.
Click to expand...

You are trying to compare the acceleration of a geared hub motor running at its absolute limit with a DD hub motor running not too much more power. The DD hub motor is not going to give you better acceleration unless you throw a lot more at it. Those results sound about right.
 
Also, on another note, I am a long time motorcycle guy too. My ebikes sleep in the garage next to highly modified Japanese and Italian sportbikes (which have been raced) and gather more dust as my ebikes become increasingly fun and useful. :) You are building on the wrong bike if your intention is to ride hard and fast like a dirtbike or sportbike... after building more than 10 ebikes now (each faster than the previous) I can assure you that a bottom grade and really fast ebike is going to cost you way more in the long run when it puts you in the hospital. Low budget bars, stem, forks, wheels, hubs, and the hardware that holds them together, etc. were not designed for 35+mph hits by an experienced rider. At least replace the fork with a rockshox bluto, get a better front wheel build with a 20mm hub, and a new steering stem if you are going to shoot north of 35mph and ride it hard. I have broken a lot of bicycle parts in my journey, but luckily no bones yet. The scariest was when a steering stem broke at speed on a downhill trail. After that I decided high end dual crown forks, stems, bars, wheels, hubs, axles, brakes, etc. on anything running more than 750watts for me! It about put the fear of the lord in me. It's hard enough to ride 2 wheels fast and keeping the shiny side up without worrying about the equipment failing!
 
ecycler said:
Also, on another note, I am a long time motorcycle guy too. My ebikes sleep in the garage next to highly modified Japanese and Italian sportbikes (which have been raced) and gather more dust as my ebikes become increasingly fun and useful. :) You are building on the wrong bike if your intention is to ride hard and fast like a dirtbike or sportbike... after building more than 10 ebikes now (each faster than the previous) I can assure you that a bottom grade and really fast ebike is going to cost you way more in the long run when it puts you in the hospital. Low budget bars, stem, forks, wheels, hubs, and the hardware that holds them together, etc. were not designed for 35+mph hits by an experienced rider. At least replace the fork with a rockshox bluto, get a better front wheel build with a 20mm hub, and a new steering stem if you are going to shoot north of 35mph and ride it hard. I have broken a lot of bicycle parts in my journey, but luckily no bones yet. The scariest was when a steering stem broke at speed on a downhill trail. After that I decided high end dual crown forks, stems, bars, wheels, hubs, axles, brakes, etc. on anything running more than 750watts for me! It about put the fear of the lord in me. It's hard enough to ride 2 wheels fast and keeping the shiny side up without worrying about the equipment failing!
Click to expand...

The ebike is only used as a commuter bike, 14 miles a day, mostly on bike lanes. After a long history of racing cross country and working at a bike shop as a mechanic I have no worries about beating on the sondors. It's single speed steel, not alot can go wrong. The whole experiment started when I started thinking about getting the $3000 kit for my motoped pro to make it 3000 watt electric. I have decided electric is where it's at for my commuter bike, but don't really see the value in doubling up my costs in the motoped for the same performance as the 49cc motor it has on it, so I just started bolting stuff on to the sondors.

I don't actually care about top speed anywhere near as much as acceleration and hill climbs. Unfortunately the ebike world id riddled with subjective terms for speed with no actual stats and at the end of the day it seems like this kit just didn't offer up anywhere near what I expected. I tried to pull the amps with my multimeter but it detected 0 so obviously I'm doing that wrong. It's totally possible it's performing as it should, but it's totally underwhelming from my point of view. I'm crawling up hills just like before.
 
ecycler said:
loudog3114 said:
Well it's really about acceleration. There is none. It's the same as the 350w motor. I'm a motorcycle guy so 33mph is crawling. I only see watts, not sure how to display amps. Watts peaks at 1700 now under heavy load (me on a steep hill). Not sure about at cruising speed yet.
Click to expand...

You are trying to compare the acceleration of a geared hub motor running at its absolute limit with a DD hub motor running not too much more power. The DD hub motor is not going to give you better acceleration unless you throw a lot more at it. Those results sound about right.
Click to expand...

So, I guess my question is then, how do I now hot rod the leaf motor like I did the sondors? All the Luna kit does is change some LCD options.
 
A 26 inch fat tire with its large diameter and a DD 4T leaf is never going to give you the hill blasting power you are seeking without overheating like crazy. In addition to upping the amps with a more powerful controller, you will need to monitor the stator temps, and are going to need to do cooling mods too. What kind of hills are you trying to ride up? You might do better adding some more gears to help it up the steep ones a little better. You are not going to be able to measure the amps with your multimeter without frying it or the leads... you need a cycle analyst or a cheaper rc watt meter. The next best mod you can make for acceleration is to relace the motor into a small wheel like a 17 inch moped wheel.
 
ecycler said:
A 26 inch fat tire with its large diameter and a DD 4T leaf is never going to give you the hill blasting power you are seeking without overheating like crazy. In addition to upping the amps with a more powerful controller, you will need to monitor the stator temps, and are going to need to do cooling mods too. What kind of hills are you trying to ride up? You might do better adding some more gears to help it up the steep ones a little better. You are not going to be able to measure the amps with your multimeter without frying it or the leads... you need a cycle analyst or a cheaper rc watt meter. The next best mod you can make for acceleration is to relace the motor into a small wheel like a 17 inch moped wheel.
Click to expand...

Ah well. Live and learn.
 
For your next build first start with the simulator on ebikes.ca. I have found it to be within 5% accuracy in predicting the performance on all of my builds. If you know where to look and do your homework, this is all science and you can ignore the marketing BS... speaking of which - did the shill/marketing guy for Sondors, Theodore Voltaire, tell you that all of these parts would work out how you desired? Your build sounds a lot like the one he blathers on about.
 
My guess is you need a controller capable of more current than 25A. You also need to understand if that battery pack voltage sags a lot under load.
 
I apologize, I assumed when you swapped-in the Leafbike motor, you also swapped-in a more powerful controller. Your battery and motor may be capable of 3000W, but...if the controller is 48V X 25A = 1200W, then the most you will ever get out of the system is 1200W.
 
ecycler said:
For your next build first start with the simulator on ebikes.ca. I have found it to be within 5% accuracy in predicting the performance on all of my builds. If you know where to look and do your homework, this is all science and you can ignore the marketing BS... speaking of which - did the shill/marketing guy for Sondors, Theodore Voltaire, tell you that all of these parts would work out how you desired? Your build sounds a lot like the one he blathers on about.
Click to expand...

I haven't talked to them at all, just sourced it all myself with the help of the guy I used to work for at my old bike shop.
 
How long and steep are the hills you are trying to climb? I can relate as I have a very hilly 10 mile commute (and reside on a steep hill) which is what originally got me into ebikes and solving slow hill climbs in traffic helped fuel some of desire for the continuous hotrodding of them, beyond my intrinsic speedfreak tendencies.
 
I apologize again. Then, 48V X 45A = 2160W...

Weak by gasoline sport-bike standards, but....I would still advise adding a watt-meter, to verify the actual max amps drawn.
 
It makes it frustrating to help you if you don't answer the questions. You may not realize it, but they affect the answers to help you with your own newbness.
 
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