Good Value e-Bike Conversion Kit? This is what I found...

RVan · May 6, 2017

So here is the situation...

My wife and I are at different fitness levels. As a way to give both of us a workout I am looking to convert my Giant mountain bike to an e-bike and I will ride with her on my road bike. The idea is for her to get in a workout as well so no need to go 1000w. I figure that a 250-350w on level one will give her a reason to pedal and make it tough for me to keep up on the road bike. On the days we are not biking together I plan on finding reasons for myself to ride the e-bike.

Based on my research so far this is a good thing because 250-350w front hub motors are simplest to install and have been mass produced to the point that they are cost effective for what you get. Good thing because my wife is hesitant to spend any large chunk of the family budget on this project.

Now the quest is to find a quality kit at the best price. Looked at a few US based companies (the country I am in) and Ebay. i.e Luna Cycle's least expensive option is $950 shipped and Ebay's best is $750 shipped. So far the best source might be BMSBattery.com.

The BMSbattery.com price is $490 shipped after you upgrade to the LCD3 display. I chose 260rpm (instead of the 201 or 328 rpm) figuring it was the middle ground and remembering that this e-bike was supposed to pace a human powered road bike. But... there are a few sticking points (which is why I am hoping for the help of you enlightened folk of this website).

Here is one BMSbattery option as copied from there website:
Q100 250W-350W Front Driving V-Brake, Rim Brake, Disc Brake compatible Motor E-Bike Whole Kit with LED meter or LCD display Packing List:
1. A optional 16"~28" whole wheel. Assembled a double wall aluminum rim with 36pcs stainless steel spokes and brass nipples.
2. A pair of Brake Grip.
3. A PAS---Padel Pulse Assist Sensor.
4. A integrated S06P controller.
5. A new kind of bottle 36V10Ah Li_Ion battery pack.
6. A twist grid throttle or a Half Twist Throttle or a Thumb Level Throttle.you can leave a message about your choice , or we will send one of them randomly .
7. A LED meter or LCD display.
8. A speed sensor.
9. A Q100 front-driving motor.

Q100 250W-350W Front Driving Disc Brake, V-brake and rim brake compatible Motor E-Bike Kit Specification:
1. Voltage: 36V.
2. Brake type: For disc brake or rim brake
3. Connector: Sensorless Waterproof or Hall sensor and sensorless compatible or hall sensor waterproof plug.
4. A speed sensor inside the motor.

For $30 more you can get the Bafang 250w QSWXK5 or the Bafang 250w SWXU.

Unfortunately (as one might expect from a country an ocean away and with a language barrier) they have not responded to my email queries on upgrading the controller from the included square wave to a sine controller (S06S) for $6 more. I tried using Google translate English to Chinese hoping to make it easier for them to read but still didn't receive a response. That alone shouldn't be a deal killer for me, right?

The last question in my mind from bmsbattery.com's options is would I go for a Bafang motor. If so, which one (QSWXK5 or SWXU)

This is just my research. I am totally open to a different setup and source. Any suggestions?

NickF23 · May 6, 2017

Don't buy a li-ion battery from an unknown source. Not only might it catch fire, it also might be unreliable. 3 options are

1: Buy from a vendor with a reputation for safety preferably from your home country ( so you can sue their public liability insurance if your house burns but you're uninsured) but if you want to save cash you could try https://em3ev.com/ who are based in china but are well respected here for their commitment to safety.

2. Build a battery yourself with proper safety features.

3. Buy lipo and strictly follow the safety protocols.

motomech · May 6, 2017

RVan said:
So here is the situation...

My wife and I are at different fitness levels. As a way to give both of us a workout I am looking to convert my Giant mountain bike to an e-bike and I will ride with her on my road bike. The idea is for her to get in a workout as well so no need to go 1000w. I figure that a 250-350w on level one will give her a reason to pedal and make it tough for me to keep up on the road bike. On the days we are not biking together I plan on finding reasons for myself to ride the e-bike.

Based on my research so far this is a good thing because 250-350w front hub motors are simplest to install and have been mass produced to the point that they are cost effective for what you get. Good thing because my wife is hesitant to spend any large chunk of the family budget on this project.

Now the quest is to find a quality kit at the best price. Looked at a few US based companies (the country I am in) and Ebay. i.e Luna Cycle's least expensive option is $950 shipped and Ebay's best is $750 shipped. So far the best source might be BMSBattery.com.

The BMSbattery.com price is $490 shipped after you upgrade to the LCD3 display. I chose 260rpm (instead of the 201 or 328 rpm) figuring it was the middle ground and remembering that this e-bike was supposed to pace a human powered road bike. But... there are a few sticking points (which is why I am hoping for the help of you enlightened folk of this website).

Here is one BMSbattery option as copied from there website:
Q100 250W-350W Front Driving V-Brake, Rim Brake, Disc Brake compatible Motor E-Bike Whole Kit with LED meter or LCD display Packing List:
1. A optional 16"~28" whole wheel. Assembled a double wall aluminum rim with 36pcs stainless steel spokes and brass nipples.
2. A pair of Brake Grip.
3. A PAS---Padel Pulse Assist Sensor.
4. A integrated S06P controller.
5. A new kind of bottle 36V10Ah Li_Ion battery pack.
6. A twist grid throttle or a Half Twist Throttle or a Thumb Level Throttle.you can leave a message about your choice , or we will send one of them randomly .
7. A LED meter or LCD display.
8. A speed sensor.
9. A Q100 front-driving motor.

Q100 250W-350W Front Driving Disc Brake, V-brake and rim brake compatible Motor E-Bike Kit Specification:
1. Voltage: 36V.
2. Brake type: For disc brake or rim brake
3. Connector: Sensorless Waterproof or Hall sensor and sensorless compatible or hall sensor waterproof plug.
4. A speed sensor inside the motor.

For $30 more you can get the Bafang 250w QSWXK5 or the Bafang 250w SWXU.

Unfortunately (as one might expect from a country an ocean away and with a language barrier) they have not responded to my email queries on upgrading the controller from the included square wave to a sine controller (S06S) for $6 more. I tried using Google translate English to Chinese hoping to make it easier for them to read but still didn't receive a response. That alone shouldn't be a deal killer for me, right?

The last question in my mind from bmsbattery.com's options is would I go for a Bafang motor. If so, which one (QSWXK5 or SWXU)

This is just my research. I am totally open to a different setup and source. Any suggestions?

You have done a pretty good job of researching this.
I have been using the "Cuties" from BMS Battery for years and have "ridden shotgun" on dozens of builds and am a little burned out on making lists, but I'll throw in a few ideas.
The 260H on 48 Volts is the "best" all around conversion I.M.O.
The 260 on 48 Volts in a 26" wheel does 22-23 mph , while on 36 V, top speed is more like 19-20 mph. The extra few MPH, makes ridding a little more fun w/out getting into "dangerous territory".
If you don't need, or want the extra speed, then either of the two new, more complete kits will work for you, being easier to install and perhaps neater when done.
The "H" .likewise, is more capable than the Standard Q100 motor. Some of us "bigger" guys like to run a controller of 17 to 20 Amps on the H which makes the system "fairly well jump". A much better hill climber.
But for now, let's say that you want to go with the one of the more complete conversion kits, I don't see any reason not to go w/ the "full" kit over the "1/2" kit because the BMS Battery batteries are good.
You will need to talk to BMS B. along the way, but you don't need to have them change the order from their format, just to confirm it. They are not that flexible. And you don't need to use Google translate on them.
If you want the SO6S/SLCD-3 w/ the 1/2 kit, just order it and add the controller/display. It never hurts to have a cheap, back-up controller.
Most parts from them are cheap, it's the shipping that is a killer, so don't skrimp on the accessories now, only to wish you could get a $3 part later.
Take throttles for instance. I prefer a left-hand, half-twist throttle because w/ a motor, the left shifter is never used and I remove it, but some like a thumb(which can be placed on either side), so for $3 ea. order both.
You will also need;
The spoke wrench.
2) pr.s of torque arms.
If you donor bike has cable brakes, a "hidden wire sensor". If your brk. is hydro., you will have to fab an Ebrake switch.
The PAS disc. from BMS B. requires removing the bike's crank, Ebike CA offers a 2-piece PAS disc that clips together.
So if you decide you want the full 36V kit, just order it and then confirm w/ them. Since none of the items are "optioned", there should be no mix-ups. Just confirm w/ them and they will get in touch. Usually, a nice girl(at least she says she is) who writes gd. English will keep in touch thru the process.
Usually, they will tell you you will get a tracking # when the order is shipped, but that doesn't happen. What happens is, you will wait a week of so, wondering what's going on, then all of a sudden, you will get the tracking # and take delivery the next day :roll:

Recently, I have been getting all my orders w/in 10 business days, but the battery may lengthen that some.
They have odd holidays(to us) and shut down time to time.
Gd. luck

docw009 · May 6, 2017

I've also bought two Q100H bare motors from BMSbattery this year. Since their shipping is quite expensive, I opted to buy the wheels/spokes in the USA and build the wheels at home. The craftmanship might be suspect, but the wheels do spin true, and I know I have good rims and nice tapered 14G spokes. I also got the controllers elsewhere.

Last year, I bought a Bafang SWXH rear hubmotor from elifebike.com plus controller. More reasonable shipping, but I don't like their controller selection. No LCD model, their LED displays are voltage specific, and the smaller controllers feel weak. I upgraded to a bigger controller.

As far as value, going ala carte for everything usually costs more though, and one advantage of buying the controller, sensors, brakes, and motor from the same vendor is that the connectors should match up. I usually do a lot of soldering just to dress up cables, but sometimes the connectors are wrong too, when I mix vendors. Does the BMSbattery integrated controller use Higo connectors for the handlebar harness and motor cable? That really cleans up the wiring.

Although I was intending my Q100H bikes (and the Bafang too) to be lower power kits on 36V, I have run them on 52V too, and it's nice to have the extra kick.

I have a couple of Luna batteries. With Luna, at least you know the brand of cell inside the battery, although it still came from China and the manufacturing may be suspect. I did buy one battery from a Chinese vendor, elifebike when they sold on ebay. I have not had any problems with it. I've seen videos that show the internal construction of em3ev.com's batteries, and those look very well made.

RVan · May 7, 2017

Thanks for all the input. I am still learning and this is a great start. Please bear with me as I continue my education.

Does anyone have knowledge that allows them to directly compare the Q vs. the Bafang motors? BMSbattery has the 36v motors priced individually at: $79 Q-100, $100 Bafang SWXU, $115 Bafang SWXK5. Is the higher price indicative of a better motor?

Bafang may have discontinued the SWXK5 as Greenbikekit.com says "The old SWXK5 motor is with threaded cover which needs special opening tool to open, and the new SWXK2 motor is with screwed cover which you can discover the motor cover by dis-screw the 6 screws." How often do you need to go into the motor? Is it reasonable to hope the need doesn't arise for at least a couple years?

The kits I am seeing show brake levers with cables. Does that mean they have a hidden wire sensor or do I still need to purchase one or two (one for each brake)? I am confused. Why would the conversion kit contain brake levers and cables if all you need is a new sensor?

motomech · May 7, 2017

Mini-motor systems can give fairly good climbing performance w/ a low-speed motor(201H) and a higher range of Current or they can give fairly good top speed w/ a mid-speed motor(260) and less Amps/more Volts, but they can't excel at everything.
All the mini-motors are basicly the same, w/ some weighing a little more. The more mass, the higher the power handling. Reliabilty, if they are used at reasonable power levels, is about the same for all of them. The Cute is as good as the others and costs less. The Q100H is a standout as it weighs less(2Kg.s) and has a performance potenial very close to the 2.3Kg.s motors.
All this is of no import to you til you decide the performance envelope you desire, then you select components. In general, the speed range of the motor is it's main consideration, as it does not determin the power of the system, the controller and the battery does that.
As stated in my first post, if you only want to go 19 mph, then you should really consider the full kit. If you want more performance, then you will need to "mix and match" and spend more time grafting(soldering)various connectors.
As you need a battery, BMS Battery is far and away your best option and although they are good vendors, you really don't need to consider the products from Elifebike aand Greenbikekit.
At this point you need to decide what you want out of an ebike and go from there.

motomech · May 7, 2017

The kits I am seeing show brake levers with cables. Does that mean they have a hidden wire sensor or do I still need to purchase one or two (one for each brake)? I am confused. Why would the conversion kit contain brake levers and cables if all you need is a new sensor?

Those levers have been included since day one and they are quite clunky and nobody likes them.
Why do they keep including them?
Who knows, another Chinese mystery.

Ykick · May 7, 2017

Cable levers that come with Luna BBS02/HD are much nicer/better than that crap we've become accustomed from the eBay/China vendor kits.

RVan · May 7, 2017

I'm sorry I'm being dense but do I need the hidden wire sensor or not?

So the Q and the Bafang are of equal quality. Does it make a difference that it's the Q100 in the kit and not the Q100 H that you talk about?

Good Value e-Bike Conversion Kit? This is what I found...

RVan

1 mW

NickF23

100 W

motomech

10 MW

docw009

1 MW

RVan

1 mW

motomech

10 MW

motomech

10 MW

Ykick

1 GW

RVan

1 mW

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