Who has blown up a Q100H?

So I've pretty much decided on a Cute Q100H as the motor for my upcoming build, and reading what people have to say, it seems like it can take a lot of power for such a light motor. My question is: how much?

I have seen recommendations that the older Q100 should be run at no more than 18A, and most people seem to settle around 800W as the max power for a Q100H, but who has actually found the motor's limit the hard way?

My hunch is that I can run it at 52V and 25A and it will handle that just fine, but I'm prepared to be corrected. If I don't get a solid answer, they are cheap enough that I might just buy 2 and use the first one to answer my own question. If so, I'll be sure to tell you all about it!

A few from hall sensor blow

It depends on how you use it and what type of controller you have. There are so many things going on in the way that the controller gives power and the way that the motor restricts it, all of which depend on speed, that it's difficult to say without you giving us some parameters to work with.

You can destroy a Q100H with 36v and 15 amps in a few minutes if you don't use it correctly or you can run at 48v and 20 amps if you know what you're doing.

arthurtuxedo said:

So I've pretty much decided on a Cute Q100H as the motor for my upcoming build, and reading what people have to say, it seems like it can take a lot of power for such a light motor. My question is: how much?

I have seen recommendations that the older Q100 should be run at no more than 18A, and most people seem to settle around 800W as the max power for a Q100H, but who has actually found the motor's limit the hard way?

My hunch is that I can run it at 52V and 25A and it will handle that just fine, but I'm prepared to be corrected. If I don't get a solid answer, they are cheap enough that I might just buy 2 and use the first one to answer my own question. If so, I'll be sure to tell you all about it!

Click to expand...

First off, electric motors do not contain explosives and do not "Blow up".

I have seen recommendations that the older Q100 should be run at no more than 18A, and most people seem to settle around 800W as the max power for a Q100H, but who has actually found the motor's limit the hard way?

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It's not hard to damage these motors, in fact, it's easy for those who have no empathy or " feel" for their motors. There has been more than a few members here who have over-volted mini-motors to destruction. Some, making it as high as 70 or 80 Volts before melting the windings.

My hunch is that I can run it at 52V and 25A and it will handle that just fine, but I'm prepared to be corrected.

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Consider yourself corrected. I have run a 25 Amp Infineon @ 14S LiPoly(close to 52 Volts)and the motor studdered badly at start up. Perhaps a Q100H could survive a softer-hitting 20 A controller like a sine wave at that Voltage, but that would be the absolute limit I.M.O.

d8veh said:

It depends on how you use it and what type of controller you have. There are so many things going on in the way that the controller gives power and the way that the motor restricts it, all of which depend on speed, that it's difficult to say without you giving us some parameters to work with.

You can destroy a Q100H with 36v and 15 amps in a few minutes if you don't use it correctly or you can run at 48v and 20 amps if you know what you're doing.

Click to expand...

What's a good controller to pair with it? I was thinking of going with a Lyen controller since he's based here in SF, but I'm not sure which would be the right model. I was planning on over-speccing the controller so I only have to worry about overheating from the motor itself and then running it at somewhere between 18-25A, but it hasn't been clear to me whether the max current can be easily adjusted on most controllers. Am I correct in thinking that I can put down a lot more power if I set up the controller to restrict it on starts and inclines and only give full power at speed?

cwah said:

A few from hall sensor blow

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That seems to be the most common failure. Could a person just proactively replace that wire with a fatter one or is it not that simple?

motomech said:

It's not hard to damage these motors, in fact, it's easy for those who have no empathy or " feel" for their motors. There has been more than a few members here who have over-volted mini-motors to destruction. Some, making it as high as 70 or 80 Volts before melting the windings.

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The other motor I was considering (the Lunacycle Xiongda 2-speed) has a built-in temperature shutoff. How difficult would it be to add that to a Q100H setup?

My hunch is that I can run it at 52V and 25A and it will handle that just fine, but I'm prepared to be corrected.

Click to expand...

Consider yourself corrected. I have run a 25 Amp Infineon @ 14S LiPoly(close to 52 Volts)and the motor studdered badly at start up. Perhaps a Q100H could survive a softer-hitting 20 A controller like a sine wave at that Voltage, but that would be the absolute limit I.M.O.

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Hmm OK, thanks for the info! I might need to scale back my ambitions.

You should use a KT controller with LCD. Reasons:
1. They use current control on the PAS, so you can turn down the current when you want or need to
2. They have probably the best PAS system out of all controllers.
3. They're sine wave, so are a bit easier on the motor at low speed.
4. they have lots of user-adjustable parameters, which are accessible through the LCD.

At 48v, you shouldn't go any higher than 20 amps, and you should only go that high if you have a current control controller so that you can start with low current. You mustn't use a throttle until you're up to at least 60% of maximum speed. 20 amps and 48v would soon strip the gears if you use full power in low-speed situations:

http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2016-3F-33C0.50CGS

I'd use this one:

http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2016-3F-39N8.50CQE

You need the LCD with those controllers.

Looks like the perfect solution, thanks for the suggestion!

Is it feasible to strengthen one of these motors by proactively replacing the hall wire, nylon gear, and adding ventilation holes?

I think that's a smart way to go. The geared hubs are sometimes not lubed enough, and I would recommend to pull them apart for that alone. Once you've gone to the trouble to take it apart, might as well upgrade whatever you can.

arthurtuxedo said:

Looks like the perfect solution, thanks for the suggestion!

Is it feasible to strengthen one of these motors by proactively replacing the hall wire, nylon gear, and adding ventilation holes?

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Hall wires only carry a signal and the phase wires are the same size used in the larger motors, like the BPM.
There are no steel gears available.
Venting the cover just lets dirt and trash in.
Many have looked at ways to "beef up" the Cute and in the end, it's all a waste of time.
Run reasonable power or buy a larger motor.
If you must do something, add a little grease to the gears and Never Seize to the threads on the cover so you can get it off again.

It doesn't make sense to hotrod a Q100. If you want more power, get a Q128. It only weighs 1kg more, but it can handle double the power.

The only case for running a Q100 over-speed is for something like a road bike, where light weigh is a priority. In that case, you can't use it like an electric motorcycle.

d8veh said:

You should use a KT controller with LCD. Reasons:
1. They use current control on the PAS, so you can turn down the current when you want or need to
2. They have probably the best PAS system out of all controllers.
3. They're sine wave, so are a bit easier on the motor at low speed.
4. they have lots of user-adjustable parameters, which are accessible through the LCD.

At 48v, you shouldn't go any higher than 20 amps, and you should only go that high if you have a current control controller so that you can start with low current. You mustn't use a throttle until you're up to at least 60% of maximum speed. 20 amps and 48v would soon strip the gears if you use full power in low-speed situations:

http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2016-3F-33C0.50CGS

I'd use this one:

http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2016-3F-39N8.50CQE

You need the LCD with those controllers.

Click to expand...

I assume the throttle is also controlling current not speed on those controllers?

Are these same controllers as BMS BAttery is selling? BMSBAttery has only small 250 watt and then bigger, starting from 35 A, controllers.
I wish this pswpower / elifebike would sell also q100 motors since they also have lower delivery fees than BMSBatt.

Throttle is a speed controller as far as I can figure.

elifebike .com and PSWpower.com are the same company. You can get the Q100s and other stuff from Elifebike. I'm not sure why they have different sites. Perhaps you could ask them.

Thanks for the info d8veh.

I dont see q100 listed on Elifebike´s webpage. Only q85 and q128. http://www.elifebike.com/peng/pic.asp?ModID=PicS224&TypID=S220066
I think previously they had q100 as well. I might ask them once I have bike to which to install the motor.

BMSBattery and Greenbikekit have them. this is quite cheap for the cassette version:

http://www.greenbikekit.com/e-bike-cassette-freewheel-hub-motor-36v-250w-light-weight-high-speed.html

It is a small motor pro's and con's. Can melt in the hills of S.F. . Have you look into the 2 speed. Plus what's it going on ?

d8veh said:

BMSBattery and Greenbikekit have them. this is quite cheap for the cassette version:

http://www.greenbikekit.com/e-bike-cassette-freewheel-hub-motor-36v-250w-light-weight-high-speed.html

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I believe Q100CST is different motor. It's a cassete version of Q100 i think?
While the Q100H is the new upgraded version, have not seen cassete version of that.
Ordered mine from bmsbattery because other convenient places dont seem to sell it yet.

I burned my first q100 that was placed in a mid drive just by getting some headwind on 48V and s12sh (35A) controller. I used it for about a week before that but in the right circumstances it was quickly over

Since the mid drive never stresses the motor like in a hub I must agree with the above, think q100 is not big enough to be overpowered without pedalling substantially.

If i was doing a lightweight stealth build today i'd maybe use q100 for a dual (front&rear) hub motor build, think that would be a nice and very balanced combination

Been there, done that.
In fact, over the years, I have used every speed Q100 in 2WD builds.
The dual 328's on 46V in 26 inch wheels was close, but no cigar. While only one 328 will only get up to 22-23 mph(Current limited), two together would get me up to an amazing 27 to 28 mph! The problem was the mid-range was very slow and lazy. It took forever to get thru the 15 mph to 22 mph range. That, and I had to use both motors all the time (or the bike was just too slow) and I didn't want to do that.
Two 201's was good, but using two together would only raise the speed 2 mph, from 20 mph to 22 mph(RPM limited). Good climber and decent off road.
Two 260's is best, 23mph on one motor, 25mph on two, while having close to the same low-speed torque as a pair of 201's.
Like a single 260 vs a 201 or 328, dual 260's provides the best compromise of climbing and top speed.
I learned that mixing motor speeds w/ minis is not that satisifying. Mini's react best to 2 motors helping each other and mixing speeds to "widen" the performance envelope, will leave a gap (slow spot) somewhere. Perhaps mixing speeds on larger motors would work out better.
My current 2WD is a Q100H 260 on the frt. and a larger Ezee V1, also a 260 speed on the rear.
Building my first 2WD, I had ideas of what the advantages would be, traction, redundancy, balance, etc. But the biggest benefit was something I didn't understand at the time. The biggest benefit is being able to keep the power on rear motor low enough that it is smooth, but being able to add the frt. motor when I want to make the bike, overall, fairly powerful.
I'm using a simple 25 Amp, square wave controller (again, at 46V) and adding any more to the Ezee makes it a bit "jumpy" and throttle sensitive. Also, the 3-speed PAS still works well at that power level. So I can stay on the Ezee in PAS and have a pretty good PAS experience, without having to "dial back" the Amps or "taming the throttle". But the bike is kind of slow on just the Ezee. That's when I add the Q100H, for crossing a busy street, climbing a hill, or if I just feel like blasting around and not pedaling at all.
It really is a do-everything ebike, using the assist to get exersize, using 2WD for good overall performance and especially off-road, where the 2WD really excels.