Crimping connectors

Bigbikebob

Bigbikebob

10 W
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
86
Location
Israel
I prefer to avoid soldering and from what I read crimping is the preferred method to join wires in the auto and aero industry.

Hall sensors / throttle are covered by jst-sm connectors
Battery can be connected via Anderson power connectors which I don't like because they are bulky and have a low amperage rating.
Phase wires can be connected via crimped bullets which are nice but not nice as a MT60 3 Pole Motor connectors.

There are many nice high amperage connectors like the XT90, EC5, HXT and all of them need to be soldered.

My question is do I have to choose between Anderson power connectors to butt splice a pigtailed connector (XT90, EC5, HXT) or are there other connectors for high amperage?
 
Even crimped connectors like the ends tinned so they don’t mishape allowing the crimp a more robust anchor to the wire
 
I've used Euro style terminal blocks for big wires. Nice for phase wires since it's easy enough to disconnect for service. I have some big ones that take 10ga wire.
 
I have used some of these types of 10awg splice crimps have worked well, there is no reason you can't use them on pre-soldered XT90 connectors.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amass-XT90-S-Female-Connector-Shealth-Anti-spark-10awg-wire-For-RC-Lipo-Battery/112245869750?epid=503186152&hash=item1a22600cb6:g:-m4AAOSwIgNXvllQ
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amass-XT90H-male-Connector-Shealth-10awg-silicone-wire-For-RC-Lipo-Battery-Plug/112245869756?epid=503155432&hash=item1a22600cbc:g:mPwAAOSwawpXvlM9

https://www.ebay.com/itm/200Pcs-Copper-Butt-Splice-Connector-22-10AWG-Tinned-Crimp-Terminal-With-Case-Kit/331943389361?epid=1680619754&hash=item4d495e28b1:g:OckAAOSwnHZYbMOo
I bought some from a USA seller last time because they were the only choice for large crimps without the baloney plastic cover on them, I prefer to place some standard heat shrink tubing on instead.

Then some kind of multi crimp tool.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Paron-JX-D4-4-In-1-Cable-Wire-Terminals-Pliers-Ratchet-Crimping-Tool-26-10-AWG/122688698806?epid=757062183&hash=item1c90d0f9b6:g:7oQAAOSwAFBZr3Tf

These links are just for general examples, not specific recommendations.
 
fechter,
I am not sure that "Euro style terminal blocks" are a good Idea, they are not deigned to stand the vibration of the bike and the screws will get loosened in time.

TheBeastie,
As I written splice crimp is the best solution I have found so far and if there are no high amperage connectors other then the Anderson this is the solution I will use.

Those are the more fancy butt splice connectors but I am not sure they worth the X4 price difference.
https://www.amazon.com/Wirefy-Heat-Shrink-Butt-Connectors/dp/B01DOTB0XE/ref=pd_sim_469_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2QCN0FJ97Y2D714YF79Z
 
You might look into crimp sleeves. I found these in the house wiring area of a home remodel store. They come in various sizes, but the small ones are good for two 12g wires.

Takes some learning curve to get them very small and tight, with the cheap generic crimper, but in the end its tight, solid, and smaller than my version of a soldered joint where you weave the two wires together and solder.

Somewhere wayyyyyy back, I did a write up of them. Anyway, if you need to connect a bare wire to a pigtailed plug,, this is a great way to do it, quick, solid, no solder.

link to the type I mean.

https://www.ebarnett.com/Sku/630714/crimp-sleeve-wire-connector-50-pack-783786104116-10-411?cid=SHOP_Barnett_ALL_C?cid=SHOP_Barnett_BING_ALL_C&CATARGETID=120259710000121336&cadevice=c&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=CPCS%20-%20UF%20-%20Shopping%20-%20Desktop%2FTablet&utm_term=4579946966381418&utm_content=All
 
Bigbikebob said:
fechter,
I am not sure that "Euro style terminal blocks" are a good Idea, they are not deigned to stand the vibration of the bike and the screws will get loosened in time.
Click to expand...

I've used them in several spots and never had problems with them getting loose. You do need to retorque them after some time, but they tend to stay tight after that.
 
dogman dan,
Crimp sleeves basically do the same job as butt splice with the difference that the crimp sleeve connects the wires in parallel and from googling is intended for non electric big diameter wires.

fechter,
glad to hear that.
 
Bigbikebob said:
Crimp sleeves basically do the same job as butt splice with the difference that the crimp sleeve connects the wires in parallel and from googling is intended for non electric big diameter wires.
Click to expand...
If by parallel you mean side by side when you wanted end to end, then you instead mesh the splayed out ends of two wires together like a butt splice, slide a crimp sleeve over that, and crush the sleeve.

dogman in [url said:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=44541#p649623[/url]"]This link will show how I use the crimp sleeves towards the end of the article.

http://www.electricbike.com/crimp-anderson/
Click to expand...
 
Alan B said:
Crimp sleeves are commonly used for electrical wires. Crimping the wires in parallel reduces the losses compared to a butt crimp which makes two connections (and adds the resistance of the crimp's tube) where a sleeve makes only one. There are many different types.
Click to expand...

I am not sure about the conductivity difference between the 2 options
From what I see on YouTube there are things that butt splice just cant do and that is the main difference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41OqqezdY6c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJEXgWAq1vo

mark5,
Thanks for the links
 
Yes, the designed function of crimp sleeves is for ground wires on houses. they have no insulation, and need to be covered with something after the connection is made. I generally used two layers of shrink tube. Or tape, then one shrink.

You asked for a good crimp connector for big wire pigtails, I gave you one. Better than most insulated automotive 12g crimp butt connectors. Easier to crimp, and you can see if its good or not. The insulated butt connectors can mis crimp, and you never know.

Not suitable for the tiny wires of course. I meant the battery wires, or motor phase wires.

FWIW, neither of the crimp sleeves you post y tube vids of are the type I am recommending. Both require a large expensive tool to crimp.
Another option could be Anderson connectors, but that's another plug, another possible poor connection at the contacts.

Most of the other shit requires the soldering, or if nothing else, is much bulkier than a crimp sleeve. Many just learn to solder the gold 4mm bullets from RC stuff. Those are a great soldered plug. Or they learn to solder their other preferred RC plug.
 
dogman dan said:
You asked for a good crimp connector for big wire pigtails, I gave you one. Better than most insulated automotive 12g crimp butt connectors. Easier to crimp, and you can see if its good or not. The insulated butt connectors can mis crimp, and you never know.
Click to expand...

You have a good point about the visibility of the quality of the crimp.
I have a ratcheting crimping tool I use for the bullet and butt connectors similar to the one in the link:
https://www.amazon.com/Titan-Tools-11477-Ratcheting-Terminal/dp/B0069TRKJ0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1510840697&sr=8-3&keywords=crimping+tool&dpID=31nt7yTCfSL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

Would it work with a crimp sleeve or do I need a other crimping tool (could you recommend one if I do)?

dogman dan said:
Not suitable for the tiny wires of course.
Click to expand...
Are there better options then crimping jst-sm connectors for that?
 
There are crimp sleeves designed for other purposes, the ones we find at the local hardware store are sold for ground power wiring connections, which must be of the highest reliability for safety.

The resistance of the butt crimp tubes is not as low as overlapped wires in a crimp sleeve. In this case we have all the copper plus the sleeve's conductivity in parallel. The tubes have only the tube's conductivity, plus the resistance of the two joints at the ends. They are adequate for the designed current levels, however many ebikes push the current above the ratings of the wires, and therefore the crimps designed for those wires. Remember they are rated for the wire's ratings which are not all that high.
 
I'm not familiar with using the tool you have.

This is what I use for crimp sleeves. It folds the sleeve into a V shape, using the protruding part into the C shaped part. Then the flatter part of the tool is used to close the V shape very tight and compact. image_17524.jpg

You might get good results just choosing the right size part of your tool.

Anything round and copper should work fine for an overlapping the wires crimp sleeve, such as small sections of copper water and gas pipe tubing. Or just a ring terminal, with the right size tube, cutting off the ring.

For the jst's or other smaller wire plug contacts, I've never had the right crimper for those. I have generic tiny crimpers that do a so so job, so I tend to back the crimp up with a tiny bit of solder after I crimp it.
 
I have some crimpers that handle the JST's very well, they were linked from a discussion here on ES. It still requires good strippers, eyesight and coordination to get those small pins crimped properly.

I use inexpensive hydraulic crimpers for the sleeves, and a couple layers of heatshrink, or the glue-lined heatshrink.
 
dogman dan & Alan B, thanks for all the good info :)

I am going to try my Terminal Crimper which works on the Bullets / Butt Connectors (does 2 crimps in one crimp action) on the Crimp sleeves and if that won't work going to purchase the tool amazon recommends purchasing with the crimp sleeves:
https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-909-Crimping-Tool-Cutter/dp/B00004SBDI/ref=pd_sim_328_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=R6GS0Y940B1JXKJN14YY&dpID=312bQLLf9BL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail

A few more things I would like to know about the crimp sleeves, is there a standard way to put the wires in
  • Do you expose more wire then the sleeve covers or just the right amount so no exposed wires left outside of the sleeve after the crimping?
  • What is the right way to put the wires inside the sleeve prior the crimping, just side by side, twist the wires together, push the wires inside one another?
 
Why does everyone use XT150 connectors instead of crimping connectors?
 
DasDouble said:
Why does everyone use XT150 connectors instead of crimping connectors?
Click to expand...

I can't speak for everyone, but there are times you want something that is quick disconnect and XT150 or XT90 are convenient and have a good track record. For really high current, bolted ring terminals are good, but they are bulky and hard to insulate. I have not seen a XT90 or XT150 that is made for crimping. The big Anderson connectors can be crimped with the right (expensive) tool.
 
fechter said:
The big Anderson connectors can be crimped with the right (expensive) tool.
Click to expand...

Anderson's can also be crimped using an inexpensive hammer lug crimp tool such as this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C9FT9Z6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00.

Note 1: I personally use the above item and like it a lot.

Note 2: Both Lowes and Home Depot sell similar versions.

Note 3: my favorite method of crimping Andersons: mount the Anderson in a vise, heat it with a propane torch, fill it 1/4 way with lead solder, slide the wire into it, remove the flame, when cool remove the Anderson lug, finish off with the above-mentioned hammer lug crimp, shrink wrap.

M
 
Use the right crimping tool for easy repeatable reliability. Places will do it for you, lend the tools genuinedealz.com is great.

Solder-only is a real skill, increasingly rare and IMO not appropriate for high current connections especially in a mobile context.

A proper gas-tight crimp gains nothing from added soldering.

Andersons are the bomb, excellent as one's default standard where practical.
 
For the 45 amps or smaller andersons, and other similar gage connectors, you can get great crimps with this type cheap ass tool. (cheap at harbor freight anyway) Its a multi step process to crimp, but very good crimps result. wire crimper.jpg

Andersons are fussy though, in the smaller sizes. Can't stuff 10 g wire into a 45 amps andersons, and get them to float properly in the housing. They also have to be aligned right, if you connect in pairs, or threes. A twisted alignment also f's up the proper floating contact in the housing, and results in a poor connection.

Soldering the hobby bullets is not hard, you just need a board with a hole in it, so you solder them standing up. So for me, easiest to go bullets for 10g on up.


But if you are making up Y connectors in 10 or 12g, then those crimp sleeves at the houshold electric supply place are the bomb. Quick, easy, and crimp great with the same cheap ass tool.


Do like that other tool though, the main thing on crimps is just simply that they need to develop a hard pressure, more than you get with most lineman pliers.
 
Exposure to weather, long-term use under high shock/vibration, to me means quality connections are critical.

Especially involving high currents.

Gas-tight crimps

using marine-grade wire supplies and fittings,

verify your tools and procedures regularly with mil-spec pull tests.

Do it right, do it once.
 
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