MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

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Allex   1 GW

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MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Allex » Sep 08 2014 7:26pm

Sorry could not find a thread about this motor so created a new one.
I think that this new mxus 3000 motor could be a serious competitor to the Crystalyte 40xx series. People call it Mini Cro :)


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Just look at the spec for V1
Nominal: 3000W
Peak: 6500w
Stator/Magnets with: 45mm
4 turn
Stamped steel stator
0.5mm Laminations
Weight: 8Kg Stamped steel stator(8.3Kg with aluminium stator)
135mm dropouts
13AWG phase wires

v2 differences compared to v1:
4Tx16 windings;
Al stator base;
0,35mm laminations;
+300g to weight resulting in 10kg total for motor laced in 26" P35D meety rim with 10G spokes.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Added from "teslanv"
Here is some more Hard data for the EE folks:
MXUS XF40-45H (3000W) DD Hub motors...

21X3T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.072 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 597, 11.89 Kv
1.78A/89.4 Watts No Load

16X4T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.110 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 448.2, 8.93 Kv
1.08A/54.2 Watts No Load

12X5T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.163 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 359, 7.15 Kv
0.84A/42.2 Watts No Load

10X6T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.225 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 299.4, 5.96 Kv
0.64A/32.1 Watts No Load

All bare hub motors weigh in at right around 9.14 Kg.

These are the motors I sent to Justin for Dyno Testing.
No Load Current was measured with my Fluke 77 iii RMS Digital Multimeter, so it should be pretty darn accurate.
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Mxus V2 4t@13kW 160A DC/400A phase
Stock phase wires:


Here is a speedrun with Adaptto 18FET controller (Max-e)
First is with OVS 0, second run is OVS at 7
20S14p LG DBHEII batteries
Same controller settings, same Phase stock wires, 160A/400A so around 13kW. Basically Maximum settings that I can dial in on a Locked max-e
Sorry, just did a fast cut, no fancy stuff here, on top of that youtube does a hard compression so you dont see small figures on the display during a ride.
Oh and, it actually wheelies a bit as seen in the video, I had to apply throttle gradually to keep it down.
24" wheels btw.



3T MXUS with upgraded phase wires, 21.5" Moped Racing tires, ~100V on my 18X4110 Infineon, 80A Battery, 180A Phase Current.



MXUS3000 ver.2 tested on steep hill.
E-kross frame. Adaptto Max-E controller, LiNMC 77V16Ah battery. 90A battery current, 180A phase current. 7.1kW max power, 79Wh/km energy consumption.
This motor has a good torque reserve.
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And 11kW run at 130Amps ~110km/h

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//Doc
I have measured the diameter of ONE strand of the MXUS 3000 4T from a friend today.
The diameter was 0.0225"
I other words, it's equal to gauge 23.
In that 4T there is 16 of these strands witch is equal to exactly a 11 gauge wire.
In a 3T there is 21 of these strands witch is equal to just a bit bigger than a 10 gauge wire.

The stock wire gauge on the MXUS 3000 is very similar to a 16 or 14 gauge.
It is clear to me that a wire upgrade WOULD improove performance and avoid melting wires and also connectors due to the added wire heat transfer to the connector.

Doc

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According to Justin's data, Teslanv get the following phase current limits on the various windings:

MXUS XF40-45H "3000W" Direct Drive Hub Motor Series:

3T:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 55A
Overheat in 10 Minutes: 85A
Overheat in 60 seconds: 242A

4T:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 42.6A
Overheat in 10 minutes: 66A
Overheat in 60 seconds: 186A

5T:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 34.9A
Overheat in 10 minutes: 51.6A
Overheat in 60 seconds: 150A

6T:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 30.3A
Overheat in 10 minutes: 47A
Overheat in 60 seconds: 132A

Generic Winding Phase Current Limits per strand:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 2.84A per strand
Overheat in 10 minutes: 4.4A per strand
Overheat in 60 seconds: 12.4A per strand

*All data assumes a non-vented hub motor. Venting or other methods of cooling should increase these values.

If these values seem low, just remember that when accelerating from a stop, you might start out at very high phase current, but then in theory phase current would drop as you reach your cruising speed. - As long as your cruising (continuous) phase current is not higher than listed above, you would theoretically never overheat the motor.

And here is the excel spreadsheet teslanv developed so you can calculate and compare unloaded speed and torque, given Motor winding, volts, Phase current and tire size.
Attachments
MXUS 3000W Calculator.xls
(35.5 KiB) Downloaded 2555 times
Last edited by Allex on May 25 2016 4:07am, edited 23 times in total.

Ohbse   10 kW

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Ohbse » Sep 08 2014 7:53pm

Looks great! Good chunk lighter than Cro v3 with still some serious power potential and certainly looks like better quality than Crystalyte. Cool. Price and availability? Gonna do some googling.

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by neptronix » Sep 08 2014 8:12pm

I heard of this motor before, but it was a prototype, and didn't know the brand!!

I'd take this over the Crystalyte HS40xx any day because i am sure that the axles won't be such a problem plus it'll be cheaper for certain..

http://ebikemotor.en.alibaba.com/produc ... r_kit.html
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by t3sla » Sep 08 2014 8:38pm

Well this explains why they have an interbike booth and here I thought they just made small geared motors.

Willing to bet the fabrication QC is world's ahead of Clyte
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Sean9002   1 kW

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Sean9002 » Sep 08 2014 10:38pm

neptronix wrote:Who's gonna be the first vendor? :)
I'll be the first customer if you find out =)
Any Aussies into a group buy?
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by stevc » Sep 08 2014 11:00pm

If that Alibaba price is in the ballpark then i will be in for one.

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snellemin   10 kW

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by snellemin » Sep 08 2014 11:11pm

That's a nice motor at a good price.
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by teslanv » Sep 08 2014 11:18pm

I need to learn how to lace up a wheel. Maybe two. Hanging around Kingfish is making me want a 2WD with these motors. Could you imagine the torque?
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snellemin   10 kW

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by snellemin » Sep 08 2014 11:25pm

How about three of them on a custom trike.
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Samd » Sep 09 2014 2:53am

Nice. Stator isn't meaty cast though. Just stamped. A bit of venting may offset.
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by neptronix » Sep 09 2014 3:10am

True, the axle does not look meaty either, but you know what..

If you ran this at 3kW as designed, you'd be getting power output above what 'the crown' or a Crystalyte H40xx at a much likely lower cost and the axle is probably going to be more reliable than the H40xx's at the very least.

A lot of us are overpowering our hub motors and generating a lot of heat. This motor is easy to run at what you'd be putting into a crystalyte 35xx without wasting a lot of your energy as heat, that's how i see it personally.

Even just running it within spec is exciting as-is. Imagine what being in the efficiency zone continuously will do for your battery life.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by iovaykind » Sep 09 2014 5:44am

Have I been out of the game for awhile or is that a 29mm stator width picture?

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by striker54 » Sep 09 2014 5:50am

iovaykind wrote:Have I been out of the game for awhile or is that a 29mm stator width picture?
No, it's 45mm.
Look where is the zero on the scale.

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by iovaykind » Sep 09 2014 5:55am

Its been awhile :) sorry to add junk to this awesome thread. Looks promising!

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louis raaijmakers   100 W

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by louis raaijmakers » Sep 09 2014 6:39am

looks promising
i have mailed them for buying 1 for testing.
i guess this is also a single speed hub?
but it is still strange to me that this one is better than a 40xx crystalite :?
and cheaper.

maybe becouse it doesn't look so bad ass as a crystalite.
greeting louis

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Punx0r » Sep 09 2014 7:06am

I think this will nicely fill the gap between the under-powered 9C 1000W motors and the hefty CroMo.

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by teslanv » Sep 09 2014 7:54am

I am hoping the make it in a variety of winds also.
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Ykick » Sep 09 2014 9:52am

Punx0r wrote:I think this will nicely fill the gap between the under-powered 9C 1000W motors and the hefty CroMo.
Funny to hear about a motor I regularly run 2kW peaks called under-powered. Moderate power sure but hardly under-powered for an assisted bicycle, IMO.

However, this beefy MXUS offering does look good for small emoto builds.
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Drunkskunk » Sep 09 2014 10:55am

It hasn't got the mass to be an endurance motor like a 54xx or the crown, but with a stator that wide, I bet it's got plenty of punch for a sprint. I've got more motors than bikes right now, but I might interested.
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by miuan » Sep 09 2014 12:11pm

neptronix wrote: the axle is probably going to be more reliable than the H40xx's at the very least.
For reference, what have been the issues with H40XX axles? Sorry I've neved owned one.

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by neptronix » Sep 09 2014 1:22pm

The Crystalyte HS35XX and HS40XX axles are famous for shearing at the point where the wire enters the axle. This is a major design problem that has still yet to be corrected. Some people even make aftermarket axles for those motors because of this, but they have to be pressed in via machine, so that is not an easy fix.

The magic pie and cromotor are good examples of high power motors with decent axles. I've not heard of either axles failing before, unless user error is involved. If you run one of those crystalytes long enough, you can almost be sure that the axle will fail in time.

It's pretty safe to say that if a few trusted companies start selling these larger 9C motors, crystalyte is gonna feel the hurt. I have no sympathy for them because they willingly continue to sell products that are flawed and unsafe by design..
miuan wrote:
neptronix wrote: the axle is probably going to be more reliable than the H40xx's at the very least.
For reference, what have been the issues with H40XX axles? Sorry I've neved owned one.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Emoto » Sep 09 2014 3:03pm

Great find alex
This fits the gap nicerly between a 9c 28mm stator clone and a more expencive 40xx clyde with there questionable axles im excited.
Drunkskunk wrote:It hasn't got the mass to be an endurance motor like a 54xx or the crown, but with a stator that wide, I bet it's got plenty of punch for a sprint. I've got more motors than bikes right now, but I might interested.
One of these vented for big burst/sprint riding would be unreal. this is number one on my list for next build
edit shame cellman has stopped selling mxus... or :idea: if a few of us get together he might be interested
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by stevc » Sep 09 2014 7:10pm

louis raaijmakers wrote:looks promising
i have mailed them for buying 1 for testing.
i guess this is also a single speed hub?
but it is still strange to me that this one is better than a 40xx crystalite :?
and cheaper.

maybe becouse it doesn't look so bad ass as a crystalite.
greeting louis
Please keep us informed if you get your hands on one.

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louis raaijmakers   100 W

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by louis raaijmakers » Sep 10 2014 2:38am

stevc wrote:
louis raaijmakers wrote:looks promising
i have mailed them for buying 1 for testing.
i guess this is also a single speed hub?
but it is still strange to me that this one is better than a 40xx crystalite :?
and cheaper.

maybe becouse it doesn't look so bad ass as a crystalite.
greeting louis
Please keep us informed if you get your hands on one.

haven't go a mail back..
but i will keep you up to date

louis

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by mlt34 » Sep 10 2014 10:03am

Any word on the KV?
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