MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

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stevc   10 W

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by stevc » Sep 23 2014 6:46pm

Have a close look at the photo of the stator, and compare it to the first post.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Qua ... 60945.html

Also.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/MXUS-45m ... 19619.html

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edventure   100 W

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by edventure » Sep 24 2014 12:15am

stevc wrote:Have a close look at the photo of the stator, and compare it to the first post.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Qua ... 60945.html

Also.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/MXUS-45m ... 19619.html
That's pretty funny, you can see where they altered the photo in the first link to remove the MXUS labeling on the motor side plate. Same photo just altered and probably not what they're selling you.

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Samd   1.21 GW

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Samd » Sep 24 2014 9:00pm

A confession overnight from Mxus - their tech guy couldn't provide curves as their dynamometer pretty much maxes out on their smaller 1kw motor with the 30mm wide stator. :P

I'm thinking of mapping my own using some steel forks with torque plates and a 1 meter arm locked to the rotor mounts or freewheel mounts, then depressing a set of human scales (converting kilos to newtons to get newton meters of torque for a given known amperage and voltage).

I could also lift a bucket of sand from stall by winding a rope around the 222 millimeter diameter (111 millimeter radius) if the torque arm mounts above look like shearing off the rotor mounts at the capscrews.

Both methods shown. I could put scales under the bucket of sand for the second method and measure volts and amps when the scales read zero for a known weight of sand.
Untitled.png
Pretty easy to note the resistance of the thermistor wires and see how it heats up also (via a lookup table).
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SprocketLocket   100 W

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by SprocketLocket » Oct 01 2014 12:57am

No new posts for a week [excluding group buy thread]?

So, do we know the overall axle width? Did I miss that?

And (noob question alert) since it's sized for "140-160 mm" dropouts, what are all the standard-width dropout people going to do?

I'm the third person on this thread to express interested in this motor for a fat bike build, but... this one looks built for speed, which is not what I'm going for, nor interested in. I am interested in power, heat management, and weigh, however. I'd love to see this as a slow-wound hill-climber. At its weight, I'm not aware of anything comparable--if it were slow-wound. Sounds like a business opportunity for someone.

This would also be my first DIY build, and this whole thing looks a bit too high of a skill level, not having strong bike mechanic skills, unlike Arkmundi. I know the ingredients, but when you're on a learning curve, you always run into trouble. (The varying dropout compatibilities seem to be the biggest source of difficulty.) This ebike stuff has involved more simultaneous learning curves for me than I can remember for years. This kind of project involves many more times the bike mechanical skills than I ever needed when I rode a bike as my sole source of private transportation for a several years of my life. AFAIC (not that I'd know, but it seems...), if you can lace a wheel and swap out a bottom bracket (either of which you're looking at for many eBike scenarios), you could work at a bike shop... which would make you professional-level... which means for non-turnkey stuff, you need to be at or approaching professional skills... sigh. There's a YouTube video of a custom wheel builder, and he's not young (very experienced). In his video of a moped rim laced to a bicycle wheel, he announced it as "the greatest science and engineering challenge of any that I've built so far". And that is something I've seen done multiple times here (appealing to me, too), and once done, discussed almost casually.. it's almost sickening. If anyone was curious, the video's entitled "Moped Hub Laced to Bicycle Rim With Motorcycle Spokes". It would be interesting viewing for some, since the topic has already come up.

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Samd   1.21 GW

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Samd » Oct 01 2014 1:08am

SprocketLocket wrote: So, do we know the overall axle width? Did I miss that?

And (noob question alert) since it's sized for "140-160 mm" dropouts, what are all the standard-width dropout people going to do?
Yep, I posted a link to drawings on page 7. It's 221 mm.

And on the drawing it shows the 135mm dropout width, plus a suggested washer to move your brake caliper over 7mm to stop it rubbing on the hub's fat square walls (a common problem), which if the washer is used gives you 142mm total.

I'll do what I've always done, just bend the frame out a few mm on one build. Same as a bafang BPM. No biggie.

And I have a couple of 150mm builds, so I can add torque plates to the inside and dish the wheel 8)
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chucho   1 kW

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by chucho » Oct 06 2014 3:57pm

What speed do you think this motor is capable on 20" tires and 20s lipo? :mrgreen:

Wish you guys get the motors soon and make good report :wink:
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Samd   1.21 GW

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Samd » Oct 06 2014 4:29pm

On a 26" wheel I believe they were making a bit under 1 kph per volt HOC.
So you're probably looking at about 55 kph WOT on your 20" - but who knows!
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by teslanv » Oct 06 2014 6:36pm

On 20" wheels you should have torque to spare, however! 8)
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chucho   1 kW

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by chucho » Oct 07 2014 12:52pm

Samd wrote:On a 26" wheel I believe they were making a bit under 1 kph per volt HOC.
So you're probably looking at about 55 kph WOT on your 20" - but who knows!
teslanv wrote:On 20" wheels you should have torque to spare, however! 8)
Nice :D That is the idea :twisted:

Thank you!
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9c+24slipo+60A lyen12fets+CAv3+26"hookworms=Fun commute
Cargobike+9c+13s33Ah=Fun transport
Kona entourage+ gng+ 40A lyen12fets+CAv3=Fun crosscountry
Flux+adaptto Max-e+Mxusv2+19" shinko= Monster fun Any Way

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Linukas » Oct 07 2014 3:46pm

somehow missed this theme :)
I use similar motors on my bikes for more than half year till now, just I make some modifications for them to withstand my power:
I change phase wires to 8awg silicone wires;
I add temp sensor;
I add industrial varnish on windings (whole motor stator is immersed in varnish batch and than cooked at 120C);
I change axles to custom made with M16 screws:
Image
I add simple liquid cooling that contain of copper sheet/pipe and special thermally conductive silicone to glue it to stator:
Image
mostly use higher speed winding: 3x19 to get ~80km/h speed with 72v battery and 24" wheel.

little about comparing it with crown or cromo: mxus stator have less efficiency and heats little faster, also do not have aluminum stator, but it is lighter, cheeper and have possibility to add liquid cooling. for some customers I made bikes with cromo, but it is good just for first few km of hard drive, than it reaches 130c and cools down very slowly, this mxus motor heats even faster, but as it have liquid cooling it can take longer continuous power.
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edventure   100 W

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by edventure » Oct 07 2014 6:20pm

Hi Linas,

I would be curious to know more about your liquid cooling setup and custom axle.

Do you have any photos that show how the feed tubes exit the motor?

Did you have someone press fit the custom axle into the stock MXUS hub?

Would you be willing to sell the custom axle to people in the US? If so, how much?

Are you still using the same OD/ID bearings and MXUS side covers with the new axle?

Do you have any real world data how well the cooling works. Like temp rise after a set amount of power for some amount of time.

Would you be willing to sell a modified motor with just cooling and larger axle, same windings? Again, how much and what kind of lead times?

Thanks,

Ed

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Samd   1.21 GW

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Samd » Oct 09 2014 1:37am

Finally! Thanks Santa. You're early.

These side covers would be cool to throw on a laser cutter and do something pretty with venting. Maybe a Voronoi pattern. :pancake:
20141009_170352_20141009_172841.jpg
Got X40-45H?
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"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by sacko » Oct 09 2014 2:10am

Sweet!

Looking forward to seeing your results with these :)

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Linukas » Oct 09 2014 3:12am

shipped to one customer in Germany :)
Image
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Linukas » Oct 09 2014 3:37am

edventure wrote:Hi Linas,

I would be curious to know more about your liquid cooling setup and custom axle.

Do you have any photos that show how the feed tubes exit the motor?

Did you have someone press fit the custom axle into the stock MXUS hub?

Would you be willing to sell the custom axle to people in the US? If so, how much?

Are you still using the same OD/ID bearings and MXUS side covers with the new axle?

Do you have any real world data how well the cooling works. Like temp rise after a set amount of power for some amount of time.

Would you be willing to sell a modified motor with just cooling and larger axle, same windings? Again, how much and what kind of lead times?

Thanks,

Ed
axles are made with 2 side grooves, in one goes hall wires, in other goes pipes and hall/temp cable, axle diameter in that side is 30mm, so side cover is modified to fit bigger bearing ID-30, OD-42. axles are pressed to standard stamped steel stator.
for now have just one picture of ussed motor:
Image

I can offer just completely modified motors for 420euro. 4x15 and 3x19 winding. lead time is 1-2 weeks.

Sorry, I do not have any data, just compared it with cromotor in same track and same controller. Now I have a lot work on big power bikes and do not have time to make measurements, if someone wants to make all measurements I can make ~25% discount for one motor, so regular price is 420-25%= 315euro.
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by striker54 » Oct 09 2014 9:35am

Linukas wrote:mostly use higher speed winding: 3x19 to get ~80km/h speed with 72v battery and 24" wheel.

little about comparing it with crown or cromo: mxus stator have less efficiency and heats little faster, also do not have aluminum stator, but it is lighter, cheeper and have possibility to add liquid cooling. for some customers I made bikes with cromo, but it is good just for first few km of hard drive, than it reaches 130c and cools down very slowly, this mxus motor heats even faster, but as it have liquid cooling it can take longer continuous power.
Linukas wrote:Sorry, I do not have any data, just compared it with cromotor in same track and same controller.
Linas what is the controller do you use and what power level do you run?
How the 3x19 winding, laced in 24" wheel, behaves in a uphill with 15% to 20% slope ?

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by stepan » Oct 10 2014 8:32am

Samd wrote:Got X40-45H?
I can't see a separate thermistor wire coming our of the axle, did they put this sensor into your wheel?

And followup question: how to better install thirmistor inside this motor? Where to put and how to attach (clue, weld other)?

Thanks!

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by striker54 » Oct 10 2014 9:15am

stepan wrote: And followup question: how to better install thirmistor inside this motor? Where to put and how to attach (clue, weld other)?
The best place is just below the windings.
Glued with high temperature silicone.

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Samd   1.21 GW

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Samd » Oct 10 2014 8:41pm

937 ohms across the black (neutral ) and white (sensor) wire. Perfect for that temperature according to mr science here. 8)
20141011_122408_20141011_123606.jpg
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by madin88 » Oct 11 2014 2:15am

Linukas wrote:
axles are made with 2 side grooves, in one goes hall wires, in other goes pipes and hall/temp cable, axle diameter in that side is 30mm, so side cover is modified to fit bigger bearing ID-30, OD-42. axles are pressed to standard stamped steel stator.
for now have just one picture of ussed motor:

I can offer just completely modified motors for 420euro. 4x15 and 3x19 winding. lead time is 1-2 weeks.

Sorry, I do not have any data, just compared it with cromotor in same track and same controller. Now I have a lot work on big power bikes and do not have time to make measurements, if someone wants to make all measurements I can make ~25% discount for one motor, so regular price is 420-25%= 315euro.
great work! This is exactly what we need for a high power hub motor bike.
a more lightweight motor and more continuous power.
I hope you also will fabricate an axle for the soon coming upgraded MXUS 3000 from e4bikes.ru

as for the windings:

4x15 = 60 strands and 3x19 = 57 strands which would mean a bit less copper fill on the higher kV motor (sure if the gauge of a single strand is identical).
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by stepan » Oct 11 2014 11:24am

By the way, when I spoke with Shine she told me that they can do same motor with more turns for lower kv but higher torque.
Their minimum is 4 turns for ~1km/h per 1V on 26''

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by arkmundi » Oct 11 2014 11:53am

Looking for the correct specs for "Hub Flange Diameter" and the "Flange Spacing" numbers for calculating spoke length. Believe its Hub Flange Diameter: 231 mm; Flange Spacing: 49.5 mm; Diameter of a Spokehole: 3 mm. For the USA Group Buy for MXUS 3000W Hub Motor which I signed onto. Also, motor centers on the rim, so no dishing, right? Thanks. :mrgreen:
MXUS-Specs.png
MXUS-Specs.png (32.91 KiB) Viewed 4008 times

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by spinningmagnets » Oct 11 2014 2:09pm

4 turns for ~1km/h per 1V on 26''
40 km/h is...323 RPM in a 26-inch tire (http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 28&t=16114)

Soooo...40 K at 40V is 323-RPMs

Lowest possible Kv = (323 / 40) = 8.07

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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by molybdenum » Oct 12 2014 3:43pm

After being disappointed with the rapid wear on standard bicycle tires (Maxxis Hookworm) I wanted to lace this in a 19" moped rim but decided against it considering the reduced diameter would likely mean my tire would chafe against the narrower area.
Image

I need to get my ducks in a row in anticipation of the MXUS motor, so now I'm looking at good quality downhill rims for my lacing. The Mavic EX729 Disc MTB Rim 2014 is the one I'm considering right now, and sells for $78.99CDN:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ca/e ... -prod71053

This one is nice and wide + has 36 holes for the hub. I've searched the forums but came across limited information on good quality downhill rims. Does anyone have other suggestions?
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Re: MXUS 3000 - Cromotor Mini

Post by Kent » Oct 12 2014 4:48pm

molybdenum wrote:After being disappointed with the rapid wear on standard bicycle tires (Maxxis Hookworm) I wanted to lace this in a 19" moped rim but decided against it considering the reduced diameter would likely mean my tire would chafe against the narrower area.
Image

I need to get my ducks in a row in anticipation of the MXUS motor, so now I'm looking at good quality downhill rims for my lacing. The Mavic EX729 Disc MTB Rim 2014 is the one I'm considering right now, and sells for $78.99CDN:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ca/e ... -prod71053

This one is nice and wide + has 36 holes for the hub. I've searched the forums but came across limited information on good quality downhill rims. Does anyone have other suggestions?
I had exactly the same problem when I first considered going to a 19" and found that the 2.75-19 tire which everyone was getting at the time just wouldn't fit. So I settled for a 2.50 which is fine with modest clearance on both sides.

I am happy I went for it.
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