MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Offroader » Jan 08 2017 7:16pm

markz wrote:I got no clue but just maybe the pressure of the nuts push something inwards. Thats my guess.
You would think, but looking at the axle I can't see how that could be. The axle is one solid piece. I guess it just makes a perfect acoustic path for the sound to travel when tightened. But it has to be really tight before it makes that acoustic path, which makes me think that it is something else with pressure.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by amberwolf » Jan 08 2017 11:44pm

So what happens if you make a wooden "truing stand" frame, and tighten the axle up in that?

If it doesn't do anything, then it's the frame itself that's resonating.

If it still makes the same sound, it's something in the motor / wheel.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Merlin » Jan 09 2017 9:26am

Offroader wrote:... When I remove the axle nuts the noise goes away. When I tighten the axle nuts back on the noise returns. I still have the motor inside the dropouts.

fits perfect what i said(resonance). probalby only qulbix "frames" have this "problem".

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Offroader » Jan 09 2017 6:19pm

Merlin wrote:
Offroader wrote:... When I remove the axle nuts the noise goes away. When I tighten the axle nuts back on the noise returns. I still have the motor inside the dropouts.

fits perfect what i said(resonance). probalby only qulbix "frames" have this "problem".
Yeah you may have something here, when I get my motor closed back up I'm going to be doing more testing.

I didn't believe this could have been the issue, but it makes sense as the whole frame seems to resonate with the motor.

I assume this means the motor is OK. The motor resonating I can deal with as it isn't that load and not easily to notice when riding.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by ecycler » Jan 09 2017 6:38pm

One of my bikes has a resonant frequency with the motor at a certain speed. It is much faster than what you are describing around 15-17mph. I felt weird for a while, but now I do not even notice it.
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by madin88 » Jan 10 2017 12:20pm

I can tell for sure that on one of my bikes with V2 motor i also hear a resonance, but only when using regen and in a window of 10-5kmh.
it doesn't bother me..
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Offroader » Jan 10 2017 12:25pm

I guess this resonance is more common and people don't hear it, I don't really hear mine when riding.

Now that I am sure it is just resonance and not something damaged with my motor it will bother me a lot less.

But there must be things that can be done to reduce it since making a tight connection to the swingarm seems to amplify it.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by ecycler » Jan 10 2017 1:04pm

increase or decrease the mass or length of the swingarm. It is acting like a tuning fork.
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by macribs » Jan 10 2017 3:15pm

Offroader wrote:I would like to give an update about the hubmotor noise. When I remove the axle nuts the noise goes away. When I tighten the axle nuts back on the noise returns. I still have the motor inside the dropouts.

Any ideas on why this would happen? Is this like what Merlin said about motor resonating through the swing arm?

Just odd how it would not do this still with the motor still in the dropouts, I would think it would still resonate as it is still making decent contact with just the axle nuts loosened. But the noise really does go away once loosened.

Any way to fix this?

My guess would be that the noise is still there when the axle nuts are removed, you can just not hear the resonance.
Think of a guitar, vibrations and resonances are planted from the string to the body, wood etc. The tighter the strings are the higher the pitch.
Something similar might cause the noise you hear when you tighten the axle nuts. When tightened down properly the motor is now become anchored to the bike via the axle, drop outs and the nuts secure the connection. Any vibrations, resonances etc can now travel freely up the swing arm, where swing works like the body of the guitar or much like a tuning fork, amplifying the sound. And that is why madin(iirc) discovered sound deafening material inside swing arm helped.
Last edited by macribs on Jan 11 2017 6:16pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by markz » Jan 10 2017 6:44pm

Like its been said, its easy to build a sturdy wooden frame and place your motor in that and test it out without a load. Even flipping your bicycle upside down with everything in place, and running the motor, thats no load.
So if there is no sound in no load, then you need a load. Not sure how'd you'd do that, maybe have the tire lose some rubber or setup a home made dyno of some sort.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Offroader » Jan 11 2017 2:08am

I think the problem is because of the swingarm. I decided to lightly tap my swingarm with no motor in it and it vibrates for a good 5-10 seconds. I can even feel this vibration on the side covers of the bike frame. Not only does it vibrate but if I listen closely I will hear it buzz.

Basically, the swingarm is acting like a tuning fork.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Offroader » Jan 11 2017 2:32am

I tried to find out about swingarms and vibrations. Seems like this is a problem and some motorcycle manufacturers use Foam inside to cut down on the vibration.

Since most of the time it isn't a problem, nothing will probably ever be done about it for ebikes. It also seems that certain motors may make things worse like in my case.

You may be able to drill some small holes and fill it with foam, something I am not going to do.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Merlin » Jan 11 2017 4:31pm

i did it and it wasnt a big deal + cheap.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Offroader » Jan 11 2017 5:39pm

Merlin wrote:i did it and it wasnt a big deal + cheap.

Hi Merlin,

Could you explain what you did exactly and what you used? Did it make any difference?

Thanks.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Offroader » Jan 11 2017 11:43pm

Design flaw? The C washer or snap washer they use cuts right through the thick insulation, you can see a yellow wire showing. The snap washer is so tight and sharp it will eventually cut through the inner wires.

I'm not sure why they would use it to hold the wires secure.

I'll be using a Tie Wrap from here on.

The side covers fit on so easily with the Turbo with larger axle, lots of room for wires to go through.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Allex » Jan 12 2017 2:34am

Yeah, that C-washer is so stupid, most use zip ties
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1252304

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by markz » Jan 12 2017 10:11pm

OK progress once again. I still had the same ole problem with my PTFE Teflon phase wire, even with the grinding of the shaft. It did make it way easier to slide my wires in though, and easier to slide each wire back and forth as you will see below.

But early on I had an idea that paid off.

What I did was I shaved off a bit of insulation ~1" where the wires come out of the shaft, I did that on 2 phase wires. This enabled the wire to collapse flat and have enough roof for the cover plate to slide on down to the shell. Otherwise the insulation of the wire I have is far to durable, strong and thick; and will not compress or collapse like lets say your HobbyKing wire. It paid off in spades if I may say so myself.

Anyway that was the key ingredient for me.

Next step is to find a decent replacement for the insulation I took off. Lots available and I think I will go with a better quality heat shrink then what I have at home right now. I am going to try that underground stuff and/or fabric stuff.

A problem I did not realize - I will try to slide the wires up through the hole so I can properly repair. Right now I cant. Here is a picture. That wire source I have, is real slippery.
phase wires with cover plate flush to motor.jpg
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Quokka » Jan 13 2017 8:04am

Offroader, i put expansion foam in my swingarm. I copied that from one merlins raptor builds. I dont hear or see any vibrations
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Offroader » Jan 13 2017 12:38pm

Quokka wrote:Offroader, i put expansion foam in my swingarm. I copied that from one merlins raptor builds. I dont hear or see any vibrations
How big and where did you drill the holes to get it in the sides of the swingarm? Did you use a smaller tube to help direct it into the swingarm?

Thanks.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Quokka » Jan 13 2017 10:29pm

3 x 10mm holes as seen in the photo. It made a hell of a mess. A smaller, longer tube to direct the foam would be a good idea. Make sure to tape up the swing arm to make clean up easy. It just keeps oozing out whennit dries. I then siliconed on 3 grommets to keep out water. Dont know if this will fix your hum. Mine has never had any noises though
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Rix » Jan 14 2017 1:15pm

Quokka wrote:3 x 10mm holes as seen in the photo. It made a hell of a mess. A smaller, longer tube to direct the foam would be a good idea. Make sure to tape up the swing arm to make clean up easy. It just keeps oozing out whennit dries. I then siliconed on 3 grommets to keep out water. Dont know if this will fix your hum. Mine has never had any noises though

When using expansion foam, it does that, expands. It would okay to put the nozzle hose inside the hole and fill with foam, and then what ever comes out the fill hole, just cut flush when it dries and put your plug on then. The plugs look good and clean.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by chucho » Jan 15 2017 12:21am

Maybe i am telling a stupid thing but... would not be easier to just make a small hole and spray in that liquit type of insulation that expands. Polyurethane i think is called.



Ups i think we are talking of same thing :mrgreen:
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by markz » Jan 15 2017 1:09am

People do that with ladders on the roof of their vehicle.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Merlin » Jan 18 2017 8:51pm

Offroader wrote:
Merlin wrote:i did it and it wasnt a big deal + cheap.

Hi Merlin,

Could you explain what you did exactly and what you used? Did it make any difference?

Thanks.

sure...
thx on quokka reminder for my pics in my build.
i couldnt say what it was because it was from my company :D

scroll down to pic "9"

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 7#p1145607


this "expansion foam" come out of the small holes even 15minutes later. but thats good. that means it creeps in any tiny "space" inside the swingarm.
truly was not build for filling swingarms. but i worked so far for me and was a cheap try.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by redline2097 » Feb 06 2017 4:02am

Finalizing my 18s Mxus 3000w V3 4T build. Kelly 7230S or Sabvoton SVMC72150? Any other under $300 shipped to Europe?

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