Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Feb 14 2018 6:32pm

"I haven't dug into this one and don't know what precipitated the stop, but this, IMO is the kind of thing to fear. I suspect a major factor in this is that his e-bike looks like a moped, not a conventional bicycle and probably how the guy behaved (not horribly, but openly critical during the stop.)

I fast forwarded a bit, they seem determined to deny it is a vehicle and more specifically a Motorized Vehicle, when they started talking about the Chemtrails overhead I had to chuckle. I personally don't have any desire to assert electric bicycles are not motorized vehicles, I mean vehicle is defined as:

"a thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, truck, or cart."

And electric motors are, well.....motors, so it would seem a vehicle with a motor on it is a motorized vehicle. Not that I want to see motorized bicycles being subject to registration, insurance requirements etc, on the contrary with the possible exception of ones over a certain output level.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by eCue » Feb 14 2018 9:40pm

wturber wrote:
Feb 14 2018 1:32pm
eCue wrote:
Feb 14 2018 12:38am
Video evidence would be damming ... :oops:
If that's the case I will admit my error and pay the ticket
The problem I see is that violations aren't necessarily punished as a speeding ticket. The citations can move into the category of operating an unlicensed motor vehicle and doing so without insurance and maybe even operating a motorcycle without the appropriate license.
I did not think of the extra special shit I would get in if they pull me over, the only thing I can do is play the deer in head lights routine. Its one their familiar with ..
~ Was I doing something wrong ? :pancake: really a 32k speed limit ? I thought it was 42k
Do I feel stupid .etc. then plead poverty etc etc etc :D


those Cops were ignorant mfers in the Video. He had no idea what a ebike was oh it has a motor its motorbike says the numnutz cop.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by wturber » Feb 14 2018 10:14pm

Raisedeyebrows wrote:
Feb 14 2018 6:32pm
"I haven't dug into this one and don't know what precipitated the stop, but this, IMO is the kind of thing to fear. I suspect a major factor in this is that his e-bike looks like a moped, not a conventional bicycle and probably how the guy behaved (not horribly, but openly critical during the stop.)

I fast forwarded a bit, they seem determined to deny it is a vehicle and more specifically a Motorized Vehicle, when they started talking about the Chemtrails overhead I had to chuckle. I personally don't have any desire to assert electric bicycles are not motorized vehicles, I mean vehicle is defined as:

"a thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, truck, or cart."

And electric motors are, well.....motors, so it would seem a vehicle with a motor on it is a motorized vehicle. Not that I want to see motorized bicycles being subject to registration, insurance requirements etc, on the contrary with the possible exception of ones over a certain output level.
Sure. He's a bit of a kook and he's not being clear and precise. Also, one has to wonder why so many cops had showed up. He probably pushed someone's buttons. I think many people could have avoided the fines by being better prepared. I carry an outline of AZ e-bike related law with me in the off chance I may be similarly stopped - which probably won't happen even though I go faster than 20 mph - because I look like an old fart commuting on a mountain bike.

But kook or not, he's basically right. Those fines never should have been levied since they clearly do not apply since the "motor vehicle" in question is legally an electric bike and the citations aren't applicable to what in AZ is defined as a "motorized electric bicycle" - which would be the best term to use when referring to this guy's bike. At least, that's the case if he was operating it at 20 mph or slower. If he were operating it faster, then it becomes defined legally as something else and many or all of those fines would apply.

And that was/is my main point. A speeding ticket isn't the worry. The worry is if you get stopped and you fall outside of the legal definition of an e-bike either because of the way you were operating the bike or because of the way it is configured - the legitimate fines can mount up to very large numbers.
It could be much worse than a speeding ticket.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by eCue » Feb 14 2018 11:35pm

I had a nice thought about eh hem speeding lol 40k anyways my thought is the cruisers radars will not pick up a ebikes speed when traffic is on the road.

I am starting to think about cruisers sneaking up on me now as they eventually will
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by amberwolf » Feb 15 2018 1:27am

If anyone can "sneak up on you" then you're not doing a very good job of paying attention to the entire road/traffic situation around you, which is a good way to get killed even in a car (much less something without hundreds of pounds of stuff specifically there to protect you).

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by eCue » Feb 15 2018 10:17am

IM blind back there now my mirror is on order my reverse cam is as well.
When they get here I will be on my game :D cat and mouse :pancake:
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by wturber » Feb 15 2018 1:14pm

eCue wrote:
Feb 14 2018 11:35pm
I had a nice thought about eh hem speeding lol 40k anyways my thought is the cruisers radars will not pick up a ebikes speed when traffic is on the road.

I am starting to think about cruisers sneaking up on me now as they eventually will
My understanding is that modern laser based/assisted speed detection systems can pick out a bicycle from traffic with no problem.

I'm convinced that for the near term, looking like a conventional bicycle, and acting like a conventional bicycle are the most important factors in not getting hassled.

When/if e-bikes become more common, that may change.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by DRMousseau » Feb 17 2018 1:30am

wturber wrote:
Feb 15 2018 1:14pm

My understanding is that modern laser based/assisted speed detection systems can pick out a bicycle from traffic with no problem.

I'm convinced that for the near term, looking like a conventional bicycle, and acting like a conventional bicycle are the most important factors in not getting hassled.

When/if e-bikes become more common, that may change.
While laser based systems are still uncommonly used, they can EASILY pick out an individual and specific bike from traffic and rather quickly, provided your standardly equipped with "the required" ever common "sweet spot",... that damn front reflector!!! And lidar works exceptionally well from quite a distance on those reflectors too!! How good? Cast a light on your vehicle or bike at night,... any reflected surface you can see, bounces lidar real good, and those reflectors are the best. Next best is that reflective front license plate, or headlights, that are becoming an increasingly difficult target to reflect from, even on todays new automobiles that are now lacking those bright chrome grills. Hurrah for LED technology!!! But in the name of "safety",... you jus might see such front facing reflectors become an issue of "specifically required equipment" for bicycles AND automobiles. LoL! Till then, conventional K and Ka is most common,... not so accurate at typical bicycle speeds, but increasingly better at greater speeds. Bicycle/rider are smaller and more difficult than motorcycles, and as a typical bicycle, you'll likely be easily seen visually in reference to that around you before K/Ka radar sees ya. If your "atypical", as in more "motorcycle like" in mass and density,... then your a better target, in more ways than jus speed detection. You can pretty much guess that recumbents have the greatest "stealth", radar wise.

I'll agree that that appearing and acting in the typically expected bicycle manner, is your greatest ally,... even if your bicycle is unique.

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by wturber » Feb 17 2018 1:08pm

DRMousseau wrote:
Feb 17 2018 1:30am

While laser based systems are still uncommonly used, they can EASILY pick out an individual and specific bike from traffic and rather quickly, provided your standardly equipped with "the required" ever common "sweet spot",... that damn front reflector!!!
I looked and couldn't find good statistics anywhere on the prevalence of LiDAR based systems. But I found clear evidence that Scottsdale has at least some units and has had them for around 10 years. That 10 year window of time for acquisition has be suspecting that they aren't exactly uncommon - at least in our area. So for anybody concerned about violating e-bike speed limits, you should probably try to get a sense of how prevalent LiDAR is in your area.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by eCue » Feb 17 2018 2:56pm

I was doing some reading this morning on lidar heres some of the info

To help avoid detection nameplates and reflectors or any oversized lights should be muted removed or replaced to reduce laser speed detection and a roadside pull over :shock:

Reflectors Lasers Radars best friend

Laser guns require a reflective target to get a reading off of so police have several primary targets that they aim for when clocking moving vehicles. These include:

Headlights / tail lights
Grill
License plate

Here are some methods of being prepared for laser speed guns.

When your vehicle is hit with the laser of a LIDAR gun, a laser jammer detects the laser and sends out a laser with the same wavelength but higher intensity. This effectively confuses the LIDAR gun, resulting in an inaccurate speed or no speed at all.

If you have interest follow this link for more info :arrow: Laser jammers , the best tool to combat Laser Radar. (Link to radar related website) https://www.vortexradar.com/2017/11/police-laser/


Law enforcement techniques / training course http://www.clest.org/Websites/clest/ima ... aroppp.pdf


The built in radar detector we all have

looking ahead
looking in mirror
keeping travel speed below posted speed will set you apart from the insured vehicle traffic .
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by ninepointeight » Feb 19 2018 7:34am

I never understood lidar jamming unless you have an always on system (illegal?)
You used to not be able to outrun Motorola, but then we got fiber optics.
By the time the light bounces back he has his reading, long before your jammer turns on.
I don't think we can beat laser or radar, which is used to detect the speed of baseballs and smaller. Seems like the easiest way to get caught is to have a deck on your vehicle where your feet sit, not on pedals, you know the type.


Best to not draw that kind of attention anyways, or be able to escape from it if you need to... :?

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by DRMousseau » Feb 20 2018 12:11am

From the demonstrations I've seen,... lidar is exceptionally fast and the most unexpected. Detectors are rather ineffective in that unless YOU, are being specifically scanned at distance, the beam may not be seen by the vehicle beside the target. So most detectors are unaware that the vehicles around you have been targeted. The beam is pretty big at 1/4mi, about 4'-6'sq,... jus not so big as to fall from it's target much. And by the time you notice a scan,.. it's too late! But it's typically used at 1000' or less, unless your the only target on the road. And they still need a good reflector,... and wouldn't ya know, a bikes front reflector is the best. Oh and mirror reflectors,... those on the back facing forward. No knowledge of pedal reflectors, they weren't considered in the demos, but they too are pretty bright and good.

Conventional K/Ka,... will reach a long ways, but depend on target size. A truck,.. up to 1mi away!!! A baseball,.. within 100'. Again,.. usually used at 1000' or so, and unless ya got some "secret" technology,... ya ain't gonna hide much from 'em. They can see a bicycle at 500+ft, but jus not accurate at low bike speeds,... although they seem to reasonably assess my e-bike speeds of 20+mph @500'.

I hope to test some recent developing "stealth" technology with my bike design this summer,... if my budget affords it. Like "military" tech, ya can't completely "hide" from such, but perhaps I can greatly reduced detection distance much like they do. And like "military' tech,... I'll will still VISUALLY stand out, due to unique design,... jus have to LOOK like a "pedaled" bicycle as much as possible, right? :roll:
Surrrre, while concealing my body without a high-tech military canopy. :lol:
Estimated cost? About a $1-2 PER SQUARE INCH of area, plus equipment costs. And I'll need enough area to be physically concealed.

Will this prevent an e-bike speeding ticket???
NO! Not likely. And I doubt a high-tech "cop button" will either.

(OH! I did finally get my "bullet-proof rear tire",... well, "bullet-proof" for e-bike standards. Weight? about 18lbs!!! Load rating? A LOT!Cost? $150!!! :shock: But guaranteed no rear flats!)

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by eCue » Feb 20 2018 11:22am

All reflectors must go and muted reflector led lights used in place

The pdf file explains that standard radar has a wide beam angle of 11 to 18 degrees and is not good for signalling out a specific speeder in traffic.

Its unlikely a car mounted radar will pick out a ebiker from the traffic.

Lidar needs a reflective surface to bounce the signal back and must be hand aimed.

take away the reflective objects on a ebike and bingo your invisible to Lidar.

From pdf

The lidar must be aimed. Since the beam is narrow you have to be steady and precise.
On a vehicle moving toward you aim at the front license plate, the headlights, or the turn signal reflectors.
On a vehicle moving away from you aim at the license plate or the tail light reflectors.

Apparently reflectors are a traffic cops best friend $
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by eCue » Feb 20 2018 12:18pm

One button solution
I came across this info on the KT controllers with LCD3 display on a different thread , should work with the lcd5 display as well. I may try it.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=92916

Image
docw009 wrote:
Feb 19 2018 1:02pm
Several things I recall reading about the KT-controller interface to the LCD.

1) You can run without the display if you connect the TXD and RXD leads together and connect the Batt voltage to the start wire. The controller defaults to some slower speed.

2) Someone posted that if you plug the LCD back in while the above is done, you can monitor all the info sent by the controller but you cannot change anything. I presume you can see the speed, watts, etc.

I think one could wire up a switch to do the above. First you switch off the LCD3. Now throw the switch so the controller powers up in slow mode. Finally turn on the LCD3 again. The OP should be able to figure out the wiring. It will need to leave the LCD3 connected to the serial data input when switched.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by fechter » Feb 20 2018 10:32pm

Something like that might work on a Bafang BBSxx as well. The display would power up and defaults to setting 1. When you hit the button to change levels, it would go up on the display, but not on the motor. I might have to try this to see if it works. Motor might not run at all if it gets nothing from the display on power up.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by izeman » Feb 28 2018 1:27pm

ninepointeight wrote:
Feb 19 2018 7:34am
I never understood lidar jamming unless you have an always on system (illegal?)
lidar jamming needs to be some kind of always on. otherwise it doesn't work.
there are lidar detectors and jammers. detectors are more or less useless as your speed is already measured as soon as the alarm goes off. maybe you're lucky and the cop put the gun at the car in front of you and your detector detected deflected laser light of that car.
a lidar jammer has laser detector leds and laser emmitting diodes. the measurement takes some ms. as soon as the detector sees the laser signal it immediately sends back some weird laser light. this JAMS the lidar gun and the cop gets an error message (depending on the gun and the country your in, the message may vary).
but because error messages are quite common they don't automatically suspect you may have a jammer and let you go on.

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by Lebowski » Feb 28 2018 3:28pm

Soon Lidar reflective whatever will be mandatory for all bicyclists, to make you visible for the self driving cars...

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by izeman » Mar 01 2018 10:21am

Lebowski wrote:
Feb 28 2018 3:28pm
Soon Lidar reflective whatever will be mandatory for all bicyclists, to make you visible for the self driving cars...
not to forget all pedestrians.
so not only will al bikers wear neon colored vests and lidar reflective helmets and short, but also pedestrians will do. for all the cell-zombies walking around in our streets ... :lol:

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by fechter » Mar 01 2018 3:04pm

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by eCue » Mar 01 2018 3:42pm

Ive had two speeding tickets in my life one when i was 16 the other when i had the Beltronics vector radar detector off something like 7 years ago , its saved me tickets and provides a sense of security / safety against roadside stops by gun packing cops

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by wturber » Mar 01 2018 4:43pm

eCue wrote:
Mar 01 2018 3:42pm
Ive had two speeding tickets in my life one when i was 16 the other when i had the Beltronics vector radar detector off something like 7 years ago , its saved me tickets and provides a sense of security / safety against roadside stops by gun packing cops

Image
I run an app that tells me when I'm going more than 6 mph over the posted speed limit. I'd run it on my e-bike except that it won't do speed warning below 25 mph.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by eCue » Mar 02 2018 4:59am

Maybe a app is available to alert when the speed rises/drops above a set point it would help to maintain a steady pace. The speedo on the lcd5 display cuts out when off throttle I have been meaning to throw on a bike computer from the late 90's that has speed alarm settings so it beeps if you drop below a set point or above a set point. By chance it happens to be made by the same company that manufactures the lcd3 and lcd5 displays for kt , Echo , they made bicycle computers starting in the 90's.
I have two models from the middle to late 90's that I still use one is on my f/s RM the other with the speed alarm will go on the ebike with the alarm set to go off if the speed drops below 30k or rises above 80k so on hill i will know when to start slowing to play it safe. :idea: :D
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by wturber » Mar 02 2018 11:39am

eCue wrote:
Mar 02 2018 4:59am
y the same company that manufactures the lcd3 and lcd5 displays for kt , Echo , they made bicycle computers starting in the 90's.
I have two models from the middle to late 90's that I still use one is on my f/s RM the other with the speed alarm will go on the ebike with the alarm set to go off if the speed drops below 30k or rises above 80k so on hill i will know when to start slowing to play it safe. :idea: :D
This app lets you set upper and lower speed limits. I'd assume that there are others as well.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... sgps&hl=en

My LCD5 reads speed continuously whether coasting or not. If it has power, it displays the speed.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by eCue » Mar 02 2018 4:17pm

That speed display looks nice and simple to use would be great for fpv video as well :D . The best GPS app (for hiking) that I have found so far is the Magellan App , it has a terrain feature that really helps navigating when out on logging roads or Mountains. /end/. With my motor I need to add a different speed sensor for the controller. I have not yet looked into what speed sensor it needs. With luck its cheap available and effective..
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by DRMousseau » Mar 05 2018 12:07am

Your e-bike speed jus isn't going to be easily "detected" by conventional means under most typical situations. Your more likely to be compared to traffic movement. And if your maintaining the surrounding traffic speed in 25-35mph speed zones, then it's likely to be assumed that your e-bike exceeds the typically established 20mph limit, and you won't be cited for speeding,... unless your grossly exceeding posted traffic speed.... but you WILL be cited for escalated offences of operating an unregistered/uninsured motor vehicle and other associated offences, and maybe even careless or recklessness.

These "observed offences" may be tough to argue, and a "cop button" isn't likely to relieve you in any way.

Accurate peed detection is much better at speeds of 30mph and above, and in very light traffic or on open roads where you may be more likely to be traveling at such speeds or above,.... it becomes much easier to see and be aware of patrols in such traffic and areas, and take the necessary action to avoid trouble before being "observed" or detected. Again, that "button" jus isn't gonna "save" you any trouble.

If your e-bike APPEARS to be a motorcycle, chances are, it IS a motorcycle,... and you'll be carefully observed in your actions. And that "button" won't be hiding your actions.

I'm often casually asked by the curious observer, "How fast will it go?"
My reply to most,... "It's regulated to not exceed the legal limit of 20mph." (ahem :roll: )

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