One bad hall senser.

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999zip999   100 GW

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One bad hall senser.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 04 2018 2:57pm

I overheated my motor and one of my hall centers went out. Does this mean I should replace all three I usually do but is that the rule ?

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by John in CR » Mar 04 2018 3:31pm

"Usually do"??? How many times is it going to take to learn the real rule, which is don't overheat a hubbie? 10 years and I've had one hall failure 8 years ago, and that was a problem in the wire, not the hall itself on a motor I tortured on mountain roads. How many repairs is it going to take before you adopt the other rule? ie Hubbies run cooler and with greater performance in a smaller wheel, so use the smallest diameter wheel you can live with.

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 04 2018 3:55pm

Yes thank you John. I have two of these 1500 Motors edge ( or rebranded QS motor ) so was playing a little hard. Yea it needs to look like a bike not some cross bred. I would get kicked off the bike trail. It was a little hard to slower after 7,000 watts thru a Muxus 3,000 .

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 04 2018 4:29pm

The green sense wire popped off the hall sensor connection board I usually take these Boards out but it'll be taking too much time to resolder everything all the Halls checked out good the green wire had a cold solder and popped off the board.
John I can't run your 10in monster Hub motor 6 phase with 2 controllers on a city mountain bike in Southern California. It's testing good just need the meat to hit the road.

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by John in CR » Mar 04 2018 8:05pm

You guys and your excuses for big wheels...always worried about the authorities and what other people think. Mile's ebike has 20" wheels and looks more like a bicycle than most, so be creative. How about the 20" fatbike wheels? Those look cooler than the larger diameter fatbike wheels and would hide a hubbie nicely.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by Chalo » Mar 04 2018 11:15pm

Little wheels ride like crap compared to bigger ones, so that's a good reason not to use them.

You don't have to use such a fast winding that you need a donut wheel to cope with it.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by dogman dan » Mar 05 2018 9:24am

They don't ride like crap on a longtail bike built for them.

But sometimes, you gotta run a big wheel for whatever reason. Might be the frame or whatever.

At that point, you do have to wise up, and stop overloading, and stop trying to overcome overload with more watts than the motor likes.

When i fried halls regular, the real problem was the heat spike when I stopped. ( Because I kept over watting them) That goes away with even modest cooling holes in a DD hub.

As for one hall, I never cooked only one, so I was replacing them by threes. One failure might not have been your fault, nothing to do with your motor, wheel size, etc.

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 05 2018 11:25am

The solder ball on the end of the Wire was round wth a little geen patina on the bottom of it. So it was a cold incomplete solder I used my JohnCR. Motor temperature monitor and found that it was a little warm ( right hand ) caution it is cheap and you may burn your hand

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by John in CR » Mar 05 2018 10:39pm

The hand trick is supposed to be used as a learning tool to gain an understanding of what makes your rig create more motor heat. Then you STOP DOING WHAT MAKES IT GET HOT, or keep modifying your rig until you get absolute reliability.

FWIW, I have a temp sensor on my latest rig. It's not because I'm the least concerned about it getting hot, but instead to demonstrate to you guys what's possible. I'm running 30kw peak now with plenty of 10kw+ continuous on the highway. My motor generally stays in the 60's Celsius on longer rides, and if I'm pushing it hard then 70's with a small bump into the low 80's when I stop. The wheel is 20.4" OD and it rides plenty smooth. The low temps is a combination of factors including a high efficiency motor, properly sized motor, along with a low phase/battery current limit ratio of 1.5:1, but the dominant reason for such cool running is my air cooling approach with numerous small holes and slots all over the intake side cover and exhaust holes at the extreme perimeter of the motor on the exhaust side with 6 centrifugal fan blades extending outward 1" beyond the perimeter of the motor shell. The blades create a tremendous air flow both through the motor as well as across the outside.

The 16" OD scooter wheel (the smallest 10" scooter wheel I could find) that's on my little rocket scooter does ride terrible in comparison on the same moderately crappy roads. I wanted to push that 3000W hubbie as hard as possible, and was forced to run the tiny wheel to run it at 16kw peaks. It's worth the rough ride, because that little scooter absolutely laughs at motorcycles.

Note also that the 22" OD 16" moto wheel I have on another 85mph capable ebike rides like a 70's landbarge cadillac. With it I don't even need to bother slowing down for speed bumps, because it's like riding on a cloud.

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by John in CR » Mar 05 2018 10:48pm

Oh, and how a motor is wound has absolutely nothing to do with wheel size or temperature during operation. Winding only determines the voltage you need to run to reach the desired speed.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by Chalo » Mar 05 2018 11:53pm

The winding has everything to do with efficiency at a given speed.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by amberwolf » Mar 06 2018 3:43am

dogman dan wrote:
Mar 05 2018 9:24am
They don't ride like crap on a longtail bike built for them.
Well, they don't ride as well as a bigger wheel would, on a bad road. ;) Been finding that one out with both CrazyBIke2 and SB Cruiser, as well as my trailers. :/

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by dogman dan » Mar 06 2018 8:25am

Yeah, I agree, you need to rig a trike as big and heavy as yours with rear suspension one of these days. Part of your problem is you can't dodge a pothole as good on a big trike.

But the point I meant to make, is that judging how a 20" wheel rides by riding a bmx, does not apply to a long bike, where the seat is in the center of a longer pivot, vs directly over the rear wheel as on traditional bikes. Shocks not needed now, because the bike just rocks like a teeter totter over potholes, curbs, etc. With my back, I needed shocks till I went with longtail bikes. And on the bike, I easily dodge the big holes.

John got it right, when he put the smaller scooter wheel, with its better tire on his bike. He also lengthened it. John and I will always disagree about windings. But he did educate me a lot about it.

Now I just say get a slower wind, if you intend to ride less than 15 mph, heavily loaded, and you are stuck with a 26" wheel. But a bigger motor in a smaller wheel is still the best answer, as John keeps saying. Then you stop melting motors, or caring what your load is. It works great, even with shitty efficiency, cheap ass dd hub motors.

I don't ride a slow wind with 72v to get the speed back anymore. John is right, its just a great way to melt motors, not a solution, not better efficiency, not more torque.

My fast dirt ride now, which I never melted yet, is simply a larger motor on the 26" bike. Its winding is not the fast one, nor the slow. its just a middle of the road wind similar to most e bike kits normal speed motor. Its got all the power I need, at 48v 40 amps, and never even gets very warm. I was melting motors twice a year doing the slow wind, 72v approach, with smaller motors.

But again, I suspect in this case the hall just failed. If cooked, it should have cooked off all three easy.

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by John in CR » Mar 06 2018 8:32am

Chalo wrote:
Mar 05 2018 11:53pm
The winding has everything to do with efficiency at a given speed.
Chalo, it's been discussed ad nauseum, and it's just like there's no such thing as "torque wind" and "speed wind" motors either. Wheel size otoh has a tremendous effect on efficiency and performance, and big wheels lose every time.

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 06 2018 9:22pm

So JohnCR give us some details of your battery that supplies the Watts you are describing. How can I fit this on my mountain bike Chalo what bike frame would you recommend for this motor and Battery Plus the two controllers 1 throttle please. It's okay I would love you guys just blow up this thread and vent TO invent. Bitches! As Jessie would say... Lol
Last edited by 999zip999 on Mar 06 2018 11:45pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by Buk___ » Mar 06 2018 11:29pm

John in CR wrote:
Mar 05 2018 10:48pm
Oh, and how a motor is wound has absolutely nothing to do with wheel size or temperature during operation. Winding only determines the voltage you need to run to reach the desired speed.
(I'm not arguing with you :) ) But do you say that because you read it somewhere; read it somewhere authoritative; or because you proved it for yourself?

I'm basically asking for links to the source of the information if you have it/them?

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Re: One bad hall senser.

Post by Icewrench » Mar 12 2018 11:27pm


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