Problems with latest Ebikeling controllers

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Firedog   10 mW

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Problems with latest Ebikeling controllers

Post by Firedog » Mar 10 2018 1:59am

I've done several builds with Ebikeling kits and tool batteries (Makita). The Ebikeling controllers come with a 5 wire connection to a LED Display (Batt+,V+, Gnd, Tx, Rx). You must choose either 36 or 48v model LED display. Until my last delivery, a simple on/off switch between Batt+ and V+ could be substituted for the LED display (the serial wires and ground wires not connected). The kit would work fine with just the throttle.

My latest kit buys from Ebikeling now require the LED display to be connected! The controllers are now silver instead of black, but the board, components and wire connections inside are the same.

Does anyone have a suggestion how to continue using these controllers without an LED display? I've tried connecting the Tx and Rx together, connecting Tx to ground, Rx to ground, both Tx and Rx to ground . I've ask Sol at Ebikeling, but he is no help.

The reason for eliminating the LED display is to have a dual voltage bike. The bike has slots for 3 Makita batteries. If I load 2 batteries, it's a 36V, 23mph bike with great range. If I load 3 batteries, it's a 54V, 30mph bike with a shorter range.

I tried using the LED displays with dual voltage. 54v fries the 36v LED display. The 48v LED display works with both voltages on my test bench. Of course a 48v display of 36 and 54v batteries is useless, so it's not a good solution.

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Problems with latest Ebikeling controllers

Post by amberwolf » Mar 10 2018 4:04am

Ebikeling is just a seller; they don't make the controllers.

If you post up what the actual controllers are, with their model numbers/etc., we might be able to point you to a thread about that specific kind, if there is one, that might have info useful to doing what you want with the new ones.

Even if the boards look the same, the programming of the MCU inside could be completely different.


Oh, also, there's a fair likelihood that the only difference between the lower and higher voltage LED units is a power resistor on the input--if you change the lower one's resistor to match teh higher one's value, it would probably turn the one into the other. It might be a different thing entirely, like an SMPS PSU inside it, but it's more likely to be the cheapest method.


Or, though it's a waste of the controllers you already have, you could just replace them with some of the many controllers that don't even use LED or LCD units at all. ;)

Firedog   10 mW

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Re: Problems with latest Ebikeling controllers

Post by Firedog » Mar 12 2018 12:57pm

Amberwolf, thank you for responding.

After careful comparision, both boards are the same. The outside label is 2016xxx for the ones that work without the 5 wire LED display and 2017xxx for ones that must have the the display. The MCUs are both Infineon F-SC836 2FRI-AB and includes 8K of memory. The code is obviously different. I doubt there is a easy way to change the 2017 program to the 2016.

I was wrong reporting the 48v LED (model 810) works with both 36 and 48V. A soon as the 36v battery drops below 40v the motor stops. To be clear, the 36v (810) works 30 to 42v and burns out 54 to 62 volts. The 48v (810) works 40 to 62v. The cheaper, older, model 880 (36v) doesn't work with either 2016 or 2017 controller and a 36v battery. (didn't try 54v)

The 36v and 48V model 810 LED displays use the same pcb board and processor, but have about a dozen resistor different. I measured the current draw of the a 36v display. A 330 ohm reisistor on the Bat+ line cuts a 54v batteries voltage to ~36V. With that, the 36v (810) will run with a 54v battery, but as the LEDs go on and off, the current will change and it would never work in practice.

Bottom line: Dual voltage bike, good idea. Ebikeling 2017 hardware, can't be used.

Can you suggest a controller that will work with a simple on/of and 30 to 60 volts. I tested 36v controllers bought from YesCOM(ebay) that worked fine with just a switch and 36v battery, but stops when the voltage exceeds 45 volts.
Attachments
SAM_0019.JPG
2016 36v500w from Ebikeling
SAM_0019.JPG (130.28 KiB) Viewed 385 times
SAM_0020.JPG
2016 36v500w MCU
SAM_0020.JPG (53.26 KiB) Viewed 628 times
SAM_0018.JPG
2016 36v500w
SAM_0018.JPG (126.9 KiB) Viewed 385 times
SAM_0028.JPG
2017 36/48v 500w
SAM_0028.JPG (158.5 KiB) Viewed 385 times
SAM_0035.JPG
2017 36/48v 500w
SAM_0035.JPG (151.36 KiB) Viewed 385 times
SAM_0036.JPG
2017 36/48v 500w
SAM_0036.JPG (109.02 KiB) Viewed 385 times
810LED36v 5 wire.jpg
36v 810
810LED36v 5 wire.jpg (129.32 KiB) Viewed 385 times
810LED48v 5 wire.jpg
48v 810
810LED48v 5 wire.jpg (111.54 KiB) Viewed 385 times
810LED36v 5 wire chip.jpg
810 mcu
810LED36v 5 wire chip.jpg (27.3 KiB) Viewed 628 times

docw009   10 kW

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Re: Problems with latest Ebikeling controllers

Post by docw009 » Mar 12 2018 10:02pm

I've got the 2017 ebikeling controller for the SW900 LCD. No, it will not power up with the Batt and V+ wires shorted. I also tried TX to RX. No go. The controller will stay powered up if I start it with the LCD, and then remove the LCD with the Batt-V+ jumper in place. Throttle will work, Apparently must be a blast of digital data on start up. Shut off battery, and it won't start again.

I plan to also use dual voltage, but I can set 24, 36, 48, 60, and 72 volts via the LCD. So I should be OK.

My older ebikeling kit from 2015 has a 4 wire 810LED 36V display. I also used it with 48 volts and didn't fry it, Never tried 52 V.

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Problems with latest Ebikeling controllers

Post by amberwolf » Mar 12 2018 10:58pm

Firedog wrote:
Mar 12 2018 12:57pm
After careful comparision, both boards are the same. The outside label is 2016xxx for the ones that work without the 5 wire LED display and 2017xxx for ones that must have the the display.
Looks like there's a number of other markings on the PCBs themselves, but only one number is different between them: YJ P45 for the older, and YJ P77 for the newer. At a guess this is the revision number, but it could be the model number. These are also on different sides of the PCB for each one.

There is another that is identical between them, and is probably the basic controller model, EB09A1-R01
Most likely this just means E Bike 9FET, what the A1-R01 means dn't know, but could be the hardware revision.

I couldn't find anything relevant on any of the numbers partial or complete in any searches here or on google.

There is a small chance that this
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=27927
could be used to reprogram some of the stuff in the controller, but most likely not. It also requires a serial port on the controller PCB that you can attach a USB-serial adapter to. The four-pad area next ot the MCU might be one. Using any kind of programming s/w (even the right one) does have a chance of bricking a controller, so beware.


The 36v and 48V model 810 LED displays use the same pcb board and processor, but have about a dozen resistor different. I measured the current draw of the a 36v display. A 330 ohm reisistor on the Bat+ line cuts a 54v batteries voltage to ~36V. With that, the 36v (810) will run with a 54v battery, but as the LEDs go on and off, the current will change and it would never work in practice.
If you look at the area around the 78M05 5v regulator
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC78M00-D.PDF
in the lower right corner of the boards (as oriented in the pics posted), there will be resistors that are different between the two voltage versions, most likely creating a voltage divider on the input of the 78M05 that supplies it with just the right input voltage so it doesn't blow up at the higher voltage. (these parts can only normally take only about 30-35v on the input, and the higher the voltage the hotter they get).

So you might be able to put a set of switches on the back of teh case that switches between the two voltages.

The LED meter is also going toh ave differnet resistors between the two, so unless you also change those when changing battery voltage, it'll read wrong on the one it's not made for.

Side note: there are at least two kinds of LED display; the 810 and the 890, according to this
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... D#p1293921
and they work differently. The 890 uses a serial connection to the controller, so it'd be difficlut to override.

BUt that post says the 810 is analog, so you could override it with a resistive voltage divider and set of switches to give the different PAS levels, and run the bike without it. I don't know which wires on teh output do what, but you could measure each one in different modes on a working bike to find out.

THere are a number of posts/threads about these LED displays, though I don't know how much detail there is or if any of it is useful:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/searc ... mit=Search

d8veh seems to know the most about them, so look thru his posts for info (he's also on pedelecs uk forum under the same name).


Can you suggest a controller that will work with a simple on/of and 30 to 60 volts.
There's a number of automatic-detection controllers that've been discussed on teh forums. I don't recall for certain the specific models, but I think they are teh S06x and S12x KT (Kunteng). Though at least some of them can have a problem if you power them up with a nearly empty 48v pack thinking they're actually a 36v pack and not shutting down like they should for the 48v pack, and/or with a freshly-charged 36v pack thinking it's a really low 48v pack and shutting down too early for the 36v pack.

Casainho has a thread for those specific controllers for custom firmware you can use to change how they work.

There are a number of multi-voltage controllers in the Items For Sale New (and probably Used) sections, though they are generally for high-power systems, not all of them are, though because of the other features they have tehy're probably not inexpensive.

I think the Greentime controllers thread towards the end discusses at least one multivoltage model, but it is not automatic--you have to either solder a jumper in there, or run the wires out to a switch or set of connectors. IIRC Markz posted pics of it's insides there.

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