10/11/12spd Cassette on hub motor?

I'm currently rebuilding my hybrid handcycle and would like to fit a 10, 12 or 12spd cassette to the hub motor so that I can increase the amount of time I can spend with the motor off under my own steam. Has anyone done this (as most hubs only spec up to 9spd), and could I change the freehub to a 10/11/12spd if I wanted to?

I've asked Bafang for advice but they're unresponsive!

Cheers.

Well, if you use sprockets with the same highest and lowest number of teeth on an 8 or 9 speed cluster as the 10, 11, or 12 speed cluster has, then theres no difference between them as far as getting the same performance/speed with or without the motor. The only difference would be the granularity between shifts between each gear.


That said, without knowing which specific motor model you are using, and thus what the manufacturers specs are for its axle length, etc., couldnt say whether anything bigger than what it comes with will fit. You can find out the axle length, and the shoulder-to-hub spacing on the drive side, and the width of the various speed clusters you want to use, to make sure they will fit if they are thread-on freewheels. If they are freehub clusters you need to find out the above info *plus* how wide the actual freehub spline body is, to see if the freehub cluster you are after will fit on it and still let the lockring thread on.

If its axle is long enough, then you can put spacers on the shoulder to allow a wider cluster without chainrub on the frame. May have to widen the frame too, ifits not already wide enough for that, and that may present other issues depending on the frame.

Youd have to check with teh manufacturer to see if the freehub body is replaceable with a longer one, if the one it comes with is too short, and what brand (and probably model) to get to do that (they are not all the same).

If you use a front motor instead of a rear, you dont have to deal with any of those issues, as long as your bike already has a regular rear wheel with the cluster size you want, and/or you can fit one in that does.

I haven't decided on what motor to use yet I'm still gathering info, but probably whichever Bafang is most suitable or a MAC motor.

I'd prefer a 10, 11, 12 speed so that I can keep my cadence consistent without big jumps between the ratios.

My bike is a clip-on that attaches to the front of my wheelchair and turns me into for all intents and purposes a tricycle driven by the front 20" wheel (I'll post a picture). I could change the forks for wider dropouts if needed.

I'm just curious as to whether anyone has any experience of having done this.

Not aware of anyone building a set-up as you are describing.
As far as bicycles are concerned, we get a lot of new builders who plan to pedal w/ the hub motor off, yet it doesn't usually doesn't happen. Once 10 lb.s of motor is added, plus the battery, it just is too much of a chore to go it alone. There are some serious cyclists who use a 5 lb. mini motor and a very sm battery, that can do it, but most of us use a different tack. We install the best PAS system we can afford, set the power range somewhat lower than is desired and pedal "on top of that". Basicly, the motor is on all the time and if one is feeling energetic, it will be at a low power level.
Not trying to discourge you or saying that what you want to do won't work, just making you aware of what works best w/. the converted bicycles.
In the same vein, most of us hub motor users only use 2 or 3 gears. More are just not needed w/ a motor. One of my bikes uses a very low-powered mini-motor and I only use 3 gears max. w/ it.

Copperhead said:

I haven't decided on what motor to use yet I'm still gathering info, but probably whichever Bafang is most suitable of a MAC motor.

I'd prefer a 10, 11, 12 speed so that I can keep my cadence consistent without big jumps between the ratios.

My bike is a clip-on that attaches to the front of my wheelchair and turns me into for all intents and purposes a tricycle driven by the front 20" wheel (I'll post a picture). I could change the forks for wider dropouts if needed.

I'm just curious as to whether anyone has any experience of having done this.

Click to expand...

Actually Bafang and MAC are two different brands. Bafangs come in all sizes, but the MAC refers to a 5 Kg. geared hub motor that can run a good bit of power. Generaly it is used for ebikes seeking to get into the high 20's mph or are facing steep hills. Most us think that is a bit too heavy and powerful for a frt. mount.
If you are thinking about a top speed in the low 20's mph, perhaps a mini could serve. With the sm. wheel, you would want a "high-speed" motor or what's usually called a "328" (328 rpm @ 36 Volt rating). That combo would still climb hills w/ some gusto, especially on 48 Volts.
As mentioned, Bafang makes a number of mini's avail. from Greenbikekit or PSW Power and there are the popular Q100's and Q128(more of a mid size) avail. from BMS Battery.
Right now, the KT "sine wave" controllers w/ the "torque imitation" 5-level PAS feature are real popular. They come w/. LCD displays that offer all kinds of user interface options. They are avail. from PSW Power.
Forks could well be a problem as all the rear hub motors that I'm aware of, either a cassette or free wheel mount, will require 135 M/M drop-outs. Not sure what forks come that way, maybe a "fat bike" fork.
Some of the "experts" here should have some ideas on this.

Well, here is my opinion. You don't need what you want. Run your motor. Run it at very low assist level when you want to maximize range, but run it all the time you need, uphill, into wind on the flat, etc.

Pick a gear that matches the speed you want, at your perfect cadence. Never shift, just adjust the motor to the right assist level for your needs. Pedal the exact same cadence the whole ride, uphill, downhill, whatever.

This is how you ride e bikes. Its not like regular bikes, and you will only need about 3 gears. So one of seven is plenty. 9 is already overkilling it, so stop worrying about having tight steps in your ratios.

You simply will never need 12 gears, like you might have needed without a motor.

Thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts. I've been riding assisted handbikes since the days when e-bikes weren't even a thing, and just for garden shed hobbyists, I do know what I'm doing in that respect.

Being a quad and having limited arm function (only about 50% of the muscles function, mainly bicep and deltoid) it's difficult to attain and maintain a decent level of fitness and strength. When I ride with others I use the motor to keep up a decent level of speed with able bodied cyclists. When I'm on my own however I use the motor only when necessary, as keeping it running at low power levels does me (I gain nothing) or it (overheating, low efficiency) no favours at all. I will happily crawl along at 3-4mph getting I really good workout, only turning it on when I need the extra oomph for gradients or pulling away from junctions safely.

Can we take it as read that my aims are the right thing for me, in the way that I enjoy cycling and achieving my fitness goals, and that handcycles are a different items of fish altogether. Really I just want to adapt the drivetrain during my rebuild so that I have a proper two bikes in one hybrid.

Has anyone got any experience in what I want the achieve?

Are you already planning on using a double or triple chainwheel set up on the crank end? If not that would give you up to 27 speed with a 9sp cassette:

motomech said:

Copperhead said:

I haven't decided on what motor to use yet I'm still gathering info, but probably whichever Bafang is most suitable of a MAC motor.

I'd prefer a 10, 11, 12 speed so that I can keep my cadence consistent without big jumps between the ratios.

My bike is a clip-on that attaches to the front of my wheelchair and turns me into for all intents and purposes a tricycle driven by the front 20" wheel (I'll post a picture). I could change the forks for wider dropouts if needed.

I'm just curious as to whether anyone has any experience of having done this.

Click to expand...

Actually Bafang and MAC are two different brands. Bafangs come in all sizes, but the MAC refers to a 5 Kg. geared hub motor that can run a good bit of power. Generaly it is used for ebikes seeking to get into the high 20's mph or are facing steep hills. Most us think that is a bit too heavy and powerful for a frt. mount.
If you are thinking about a top speed in the low 20's mph, perhaps a mini could serve. With the sm. wheel, you would want a "high-speed" motor or what's usually called a "328" (328 rpm @ 36 Volt rating). That combo would still climb hills w/ some gusto, especially on 48 Volts.
As mentioned, Bafang makes a number of mini's avail. from Greenbikekit or PSW Power and there are the popular Q100's and Q128(more of a mid size) avail. from BMS Battery.
Right now, the KT "sine wave" controllers w/ the "torque imitation" 5-level PAS feature are real popular. They come w/. LCD displays that offer all kinds of user interface options. They are avail. from PSW Power.
Forks could well be a problem as all the rear hub motors that I'm aware of, either a cassette or free wheel mount, will require 135 M/M drop-outs. Not sure what forks come that way, maybe a "fat bike" fork.
Some of the "experts" here should have some ideas on this.

Click to expand...

*or

Typo. My bad, but thanks :wink:

AFAIK, 10 speed cassettes can be accommodated on the same hubs as 9 speed employ (or even 8, but with 7 you need a spacer). Check with Paul at em3ev to see if the Mac's cassette is "9"-speed or with Justin at ebikesca to see what they offer, since those are the individuals who will respond to questions. Lots of luck with the other companies. As stated above, doubt there are and hub motors with 11 or 12 speed-compatible cassette bodies. I've replaced cassette bodies that failed with the same cassette body, but doubt that any 11 or 12 would be interchangeable with 9/10.

Copperhead said:

Thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts. I've been riding assisted handbikes since the days when e-bikes weren't even a thing, and just for garden shed hobbyists, I do know what I'm doing in that respect.

Being a quad and having limited arm function (only about 50% of the muscles function, mainly bicep and deltoid) it's difficult to attain and maintain a decent level of fitness and strength. When I ride with others I use the motor to keep up a decent level of speed with able bodied cyclists. When I'm on my own however I use the motor only when necessary, as keeping it running at low power levels does me (I gain nothing) or it (overheating, low efficiency) no favours at all. I will happily crawl along at 3-4mph getting I really good workout, only turning it on when I need the extra oomph for gradients or pulling away from junctions safely.

Can we take it as read that my aims are the right thing for me, in the way that I enjoy cycling and achieving my fitness goals, and that handcycles are a different items of fish altogether. Really I just want to adapt the drivetrain during my rebuild so that I have a proper two bikes in one hybrid.

Has anyone got any experience in what I want the achieve?

Click to expand...

Maybe you should have posted this first.
We were just trying to be helpful.

motomech said:

Copperhead said:

Thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts. I've been riding assisted handbikes since the days when e-bikes weren't even a thing, and just for garden shed hobbyists, I do know what I'm doing in that respect.

Being a quad and having limited arm function (only about 50% of the muscles function, mainly bicep and deltoid) it's difficult to attain and maintain a decent level of fitness and strength. When I ride with others I use the motor to keep up a decent level of speed with able bodied cyclists. When I'm on my own however I use the motor only when necessary, as keeping it running at low power levels does me (I gain nothing) or it (overheating, low efficiency) no favours at all. I will happily crawl along at 3-4mph getting I really good workout, only turning it on when I need the extra oomph for gradients or pulling away from junctions safely.

Can we take it as read that my aims are the right thing for me, in the way that I enjoy cycling and achieving my fitness goals, and that handcycles are a different items of fish altogether. Really I just want to adapt the drivetrain during my rebuild so that I have a proper two bikes in one hybrid.

Has anyone got any experience in what I want the achieve?

Click to expand...

Maybe you should have posted this first.
We were just trying to be helpful.

Click to expand...

I know, and thanks.

Copperhead,

I have a 10 speed sram cassette ( 11-32 ) on my Road Bike , 700c wheel, 201 rpm Q100c CST motor from BMS Battery . ( I bought mine from someone local ) . Sometimes running a 12s battery pack and sometimes running a 14s battery pack.
On a 20 inch wheel people tend to run the faster 328 rpm motor, unless you have hills to go up, in that case you could run a 201 rpm version , since you will not be wanting to go as fast as a bicycle anyway . ?

I first tested a 9 speed cassette, counted the number of turns the lock ring took until tight, then tested with the 10 speed cassette,
The 10 speed cassette had 1/4 less turn , so not as tight, however that is 1/4 turn of about 4 or 5 full turns, so it is plenty tight, over 600 miles on it now and 400 miles with the same cassette on an other Q100c CST motor.
So it will work fine for you.
Also
With the light weight of the little Q100c motor and only 8 lbs of battery, I often ride between 15 % -30% of my distance with the motor completely off.
I use only a throttle and no PAS so the motor is really Off for that 15%-30%.
When I ride the motor off I really like having 10 cogs on the rear cassette.

Unless you have hills the Mac motor is more power than what you need.
The freewheel version of the Mac hub is really 9.5 pounds , the cassette version a small amount more since it has a freehub body on it, It all works out to be about the same weight because cassettes are lighter than freewheels. No good 10 speed freewheels on the market that I know at this time.
A Q128 motor is in the middle range of weight compared to the Q100 and the Mac.

If you live in an area with no or very shallow percent hills, look at Kepler's latest friction drive, that is an other option that is often not looked at by many people . If you live in a place like Portland , Or. or Vancouver B.C. the hub would be better.