Biggest Ah 36 volt battery pack.

Bg-electric-cycle · Jun 6, 2018

Hello All,
did a search and couldn’t find an answer.

At the moment I’ve a self build soldered 36 volt 35Ah battery pack all new LG MH1 cells, or 10s 11p.

I want to expand the pack beyond 40Ah. Just thought I’d ask to obtain if anyone be running big packs and their opinions as it’s a lot of energy to have in a box.

Also open to any design suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Tried to upload a file but says it’s too big.

parajared · Jun 6, 2018

I sometimes run 44 volts 30ah. I run this high of ah when I am trying to exceed 100 miles in one go or hauling something heavy.

I accomplish this by depleting 10ah in my battery box at a time. I bought some panniers and I just toss a couple extra packs in if needed.

sonnetg · Jun 6, 2018

You could use ms paint or any other image software to resize the image.

As for capacity, why would anyone need over 40Ah on a bicycle..beats me. I usually carry multiple smaller 14Ah/36v packs in my panneer if I am on a long trip and such. I normally dont need more than 10Ah, so I dont have any reason to lug around additional weight every trip. If for any reason you need more than 40Ah, you can hook them up them up in parallel or carry an additional pack with you.

wturber · Jun 6, 2018

sonnetg said:
You could use ms paint or any other image software to resize the image.

As for capacity, why would anyone need over 40Ah on a bicycle..beats me. I usually carry multiple smaller 14Ah/36v packs in my panneer if I am on a long trip and such. I normally dont need more than 10Ah, so I dont have any reason to lug around additional weight every trip. If for any reason you need more than 40Ah, you can hook them up them up in parallel or carry an additional pack with you.

I agree with the notion of multiple packs in parallel as opposed to one massive unified battery. If a cell/pack goes bad it can be removed from the system and you keep going. It doesn't take out the entire battery.

I agree that for most uses, 40 Ah is plenty. At 20 Wh/mile (meaning you are going around 20 mph most of the time, 40 Ah at 36 volts gets you about 75 miles. I've been thinking about doing some long distance e-bike trips. Some legs could go through fairly desolate desert areas. So I've been noodling around the notion of approximately doubling my current 35 Ah setup for the purpose. That's one reason to have around 60 Ah.

motomech · Jun 6, 2018

I doubt many folks would do in 75 miles, let alone 50 miles in one sitting and If one is going to take a break anyhow, It seems to me that for trips longer than that, an on-board charger would make more sense than to just keep adding weight in batteries.
Although a chunk, my Mean Well HLG weighs less than another 15 Ah of batteries.

dustNbone · Jun 6, 2018

I often do 60-70 miles a day carrying camping gear and a weeks food on a non electric touring bike, and I'm no athlete. If I were on the ebike with sufficient range those could easily be 100 mile days, and very often there won't be anywhere suitable for charging enroute.

It really depends where you live. Desolation takes on different meanings in different places. My favorite places to camp don't have power outlets anywhere near them, so I'd have to either carry sufficient battery to get myself back out, or bring solar panels to charge at or near camp.

I'm talking places you probably couldn't even get a trike into, let alone a car/truck. No cell service, rarely even other people. Some bears. My paradise.

Bg-electric-cycle · Jun 7, 2018

What got me thinking about a bigger pack was a recent 89 mile trek with lots of hills and believe one mountain. Also, I don’t like to pedal and enjoy a comfortable 25-30 kmh.

The idea of splitting packs is a hassle, extra BMSs, wiring rewiring to reconfigure I’d rather build two big packs and bolt those to either side of the bicycle.

Understand the issue if a cell gives up but two packs and 8amp charger should be adequate safety.

Just wondered if exception of weight were any problems.

NB. I’m on an Ipad.

Bg-electric-cycle · Jun 7, 2018

Close up of the machine. This is my third build although it’s a rebuild the previous hub motor the seller alledged 750 watt at 48 volts. This one runs at 36 volts and maybe 500 watts top speed without the limit set is above 40kmh or 25 mph.

Thinking about a trip to Turkey.

Some off road.

sonnetg · Jun 7, 2018

wow...that's a lot of weight of a little bike, especially the rack. You dont want the rack to collapse with such a heavy load. I suppose you dont have access to any electrical outlets while touring..

How frequently will you be touring? If it is every once in a while, you probably might want to split up the packs. It's not too much work really to solder a wiring harness. I also use 36v setup and dont use any BMS. (I have an icharger to balance, but never had the need to). I monitor the individual cells using using cellLog. I have done 80 mile trips carrying 3 extra 14Ah packs. No issues at all.

Anyways, if you absolutely want a single pack, you may have to tear down your existing pack to add capacity. It may require few days of downtime..

Good luck with your tour.

dogman dan · Jun 7, 2018

Not really that heavy with 18650's. And 36v, so not like 48v 40 ah of pingbattery that would be a full 40 pounds. His 35 ah is only 1260 wh or so.

But yeah, even less weight can still break racks, especially if they wiggle even a tiny bit.

My reason for wanting 40 ah of 48v was 70 miles between towns. no water, damn sure no plug. So some places, there is an application for that much wh.

Get hold of a 36v 10 ah, and run it parallel, or if not convenient, carry it as a reserve tank. Handlebar mount it, since 36v 10 ah weight is very little.

36v 20 ah on each side in panniers is a good plan too. Keep the weight lower, and that adds up to a nice 1500 wh, which I almost always found to be enough for a good day of riding. But more like 60 mile range, the way I rode.

sonnetg · Jun 7, 2018

yeah...upgrading to cromoly rack or welding a stronger rack me be required for anything over 50lbs.

I have a folder as well...and I think the weakest point is the rear rack. Does anyone know where to find racks for small folders? The weight quickly adds up after adding batteries, panneers, tools, luggage...etc.

Bg-electric-cycle · Jun 7, 2018

Yes, those style of pannier racks break frequent. Photo 23 May 2018. The latest one (see earlier post) however, appears far more sturdy.

At the moment I await a design/drawing to resolve the problem and allow two batteries either side of the wheel. Not yet found anyone capable of realising the concept.

On breaking down the battery how efficient is that running smaller batteries as opposed to one big one.

Sonnetg, beautiful folder very new and shiny like it

Reference to the weight issue I travel with a small day pack on my back. Place to keep the 5amp charger, chain, rain proof coat, etc.

Touring? I visit frequent Bulgaria, and set a task to visit every nearby village. Are dirt tracks everywhere and reasonable good roads with plenty of villages and interconnecting roads. Have yet to find a problem charging every cafe stop not yet one refusal. 5amp charger soon 8 amps.

The present 35 Ah battery was rebuilt twice was original pre 20Ah. The MH1s are not true high current batteries although I’m very pleased with their performance as a 35AH pack.

sonnetg · Jun 7, 2018

I use 10S4P Sanyo 18650GA cells. The cells are only 10C rated with 3500 mah capacity. I have built multiple 18650 bricks for various needs, from commuting, grocery shopping, recreational riding to touring. All my bikes are configured for 36v, so I can swap and reuse the same packs.

The Sanyo 18650GA cells work rather well for small low-powered setups. I get about 20 mph with my ebikes. The range is about 20 miles with a 14.5 Ah (10S4P) with throttle only. I can get more, but i swap out the packs once the cell reaches 3.5v.

sonnetg · Jun 7, 2018

Bg-electric-cycle said:
Sonnetg, beautiful folder very new and shiny like it

Reference to the weight issue I travel with a small day pack on my back. Place to keep the 5amp charger, chain, rain proof coat, etc.

Touring? I visit frequent Bulgaria, and set a task to visit every nearby village. Are dirt tracks everywhere and reasonable good roads with plenty of villages and interconnecting roads. Have yet to find a problem charging every cafe stop not yet one refusal. 5amp charger soon 8 amps.

The present 35 Ah battery was rebuilt twice was original pre 20Ah. The MH1s are not true high current batteries although I’m very pleased with their performance as a 35AH pack.

B52DEB99-0893-4A1F-97B1-31B0D9B552C0.jpeg

Thanks. I love folders

I sometimes have to commute in DC and having a folder is life saving, because I have to hop on bus and trains. My commute rarely exceeds 10 miles, so i dont have to worry about range. But when I plan to tour, i need all the range i can get. I also use a backpack to carry my laptop, chargers, food, clothing, etc. The weight quickly adds up. I need to source a better rack for my folder, but it seems hard to find. For now, I am using the rickety stock rack which came with my fBike folder.

Looks like you do a lot of remote and long distance riding. If that is the case, you probably need a permanent solution. I suppose it would be better for you to create a pack from scratch.

Bg-electric-cycle · Jun 7, 2018

Sonnetg, I priced those Sanyo/Panasonic GA batteries recent. All the high current draw lithium’s are slightly out of budget. Rather buy more 1c or 2c charge current lithiums at less than half the price and suffer the extra weight.

Did find some 10amp discharge/charge 2600mah 18650 batteries 49gram non main brand, Chinese manufacturer, less than two bucks. Maybe try them first and if once bitten, keep to the main brands.

Did consider three 100ah AGMs in the back of the trailer.

sonnetg · Jun 7, 2018

I got the Sanyo GA cells for rather cheap (< $4 each) from ES member, tumich. You may want to contact him.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61608&hilit=sanyo

As for non-brand cells, it seems BAK is a new brand specifically made for chinese EVs. i would never know it's true capabilities as i have not tried it. Maybe you can give it a try. I think BAK cells cost about $1 per cell.

https://blogs.anl.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/41/2014/10/Lin_EV-and-Batttery-workshop.pdf

As for no-name cells, those are most likely recycled cells and have a very short life-span. I would run nothing but flashlights with those cells.

PS: The trailer idea sounds like fantastic idea. I always contemplated on one. It would solve so many of my problems, albeit causing new ones

wturber · Jun 7, 2018

Here's the "pannier" system I recently put together. I've only put about 500 miles on them, so they aren't exactly time tested. But they seem to be doing fine.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369&start=100#p1380508

Each case holds four 4.4 Ah 36 volt hoverboard packs (17.6 Ah @ 36 volts). You could pack a lot more batteries than that into one of these cases if you needed to. The hoverboard packs are not space efficient. You can also purchase different size cases. They normally cost about $35 U.S. I have two others that are a bit larger. These just happened to be a very good fit for four hoverboard packs. Two of these deliver about 35 Ah at 36 volts, meeting my daily ride needs (about 18 Ah) with plenty of buffer.

The top mounting bars are 1" x 1/4" aluminum. I have thin aluminum plates on the inside of the cases that the bolts go through to spread the load. The two bars are rigid enough so that the cases don't move much side-to-side. I use another two thin aluminum plates to clamp the system to the rack.

The cases are made to be waterproof. The holes I drilled in them defeat that, but I suspect you could restore that by using silicon or some other appropriate sealant.

sonnetg · Jun 7, 2018

I really like the concept of Ligo Batteries. Wish it was slightly cheaper though. I hope ebikes.ca come out with a 10S2P or 10S4P version. Having only a single 10S pack is just too small to having to deal with a big wiring mess. I think the idea behind it was made to be Airport friendly...but I am not sure. I might request eBikes.ca to come out with a 10S4P version and see what their response is. I really like how compact this is.

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/batteries/b362-7-ligo.html#

sonnetg · Jun 7, 2018

FYI...I just heard back form GRIN Tech. They are coming up with a newer "Clip-on" Ligo packs, which would eliminate the needs of all the wiring-mess. Currently they are awaiting FCC certification. I have to give a big thumbs-up to GRIN Tech. They are truly innovative :mrgreen:

amberwolf · Jun 7, 2018

Bg-electric-cycle said:
At the moment I await a design/drawing to resolve the problem and allow two batteries either side of the wheel. Not yet found anyone capable of realising the concept.

You might look at my DayGlo Avenger and CrazyBike2 threads, for the pics that show the cargo boxes mounted either side of the rear wheel. Sorry I don't know which page specific pics are on.

There's also a few posts around the forum in various rack discussion threads where I show pics of a rack welded together for my friend Bill's bike, findable by searching my posts for "bill" and "rack". While that rack doesn't have pods on the sides, it was designed to be sturdy enough to bolt them on, if he needed to do so.

On breaking down the battery how efficient is that running smaller batteries as opposed to one big one.

As long as they are all connected in parallel, several smaller batteries can be teh same as one big one. If you run them separately, swithcing between them, then it's harder on each smaller one than one big one.

As for the original question from the first post, I run a 40Ah on SB Cruiser, and don't generally use more than half of it, but I have another 40Ah and a 20Ah I can put on there in parallel with the original 40Ah, if I need more range when pulling heavy cargo, etc.

Bg-electric-cycle · Jun 14, 2018

amberwolf that’s a lot of amperes must take you to the moon and back.

Was thinking about building a big pack plus 40Ah maximum approximate 50ah located in a cargo trailer of I use when shopping. However, I’m aware that putting your eggs all in one basket is risky, cell bursting, fire, etc. That idea was with budget priced Chinese lithium cells @2500ma. Gone off the idea and the next build will be with Sanyo 3500ma GA type cells.

Also there is a limit to the size of charger and it’s power draw. At the moment I’ve a 2amp, 5amp and 8amp charger on order. The latter (8amp) will be great for home were can guarantee won’t trip a breaker. Non too sure of plugging that 8amp charger into a cafe socket. However, one will eventually try

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