Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Get all your technical information about electric bikes here.
Post Reply
mpmoller   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 22 2017 3:12pm

Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by mpmoller » Jun 21 2018 5:38pm

Hi ES.

I am getting a strange problem. I have recently changed my frame to a new frame (FUTR ALPHA). I am using my old Midi-E and Mxus v3 3k motor.
At a sertain point where the wheel is still there is no hall error. When I turn the wheel the !HALLS! error appears.
https://youtu.be/OcXteK3OIt0 (Its my brake the is squeaking in the video. I move the bike a small bit, and then the error turns up).

Things I have tested.
1. Running the motor in sensorless mode (SLESS) in the adaptto menu. No problem, ran but shitty like sensorless mode is. Phase-wires should be good then.
2. Error screen (2 presses to the left on the adaptto screen). No problem with changing from H1,2,3,4,5,6 and so on.
3. Tried running autodetect in adaptto. Runs for 2 seconds then gives me a "HALLS E1".
4. I put a multimeter on the ground (black) and the yellow, blue, green hall-wire as in this guide; http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/HallSens ... gFinal.pdf
When i turn the wheel they change the voltage from 0-5v as they should.

I added storade to the motor when I assembled the bike. He is 2 pictures of the motor before i added storade. Does anything look off?
Image
Image

Tried anything similar?
Any suggestions? This is driving me nuts.

BR
Mpmoller

mpmoller   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 22 2017 3:12pm

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by mpmoller » Jun 23 2018 5:58pm

I have tried to fix it today again. Not possible. :cry:

I will try to order a new mxus wire and solder it in the motor. I expect it will take around a week. I will return to this thread and tell how it goes. :lol:

Idears are still welcome. :)

User avatar
madin88   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2760
Joined: May 27 2013 2:02am
Location: Austria

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by madin88 » Jun 24 2018 10:40am

I would first test the hall sensors with a simple method:
Apply 5V (red wire is + and black - normally), or just use the supply voltage from the Adaptto controller. Than measure the voltage with a DMM between the black and each of the three sensor wires (usually yellow, green, and blue).
The voltage must jump between zero (0) and 5V if you turn the motor slowly.

EDIT: sorry i read you already did this test
than there should be nothing wrong with the hall sensors. could you test with a differnt controller?

I am afraid there is a problem with the controller. I once also had "Halls E1" and it turned out the driver board(s) was defect.
Dos the motor spin if you twist the throttle after autodetect got interrupted by the error?
Last edited by madin88 on Jun 24 2018 10:58am, edited 1 time in total.
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
- Fully road legal (L1E approval) e-bike based on Votec V-FR frame
/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

Voltron   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1841
Joined: May 02 2013 4:53pm
Location: Santa Barbara CA

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by Voltron » Jun 24 2018 10:52am

Your video link and images don't seem to be working... But if you're sure the Halls are putting out good signal, and they're in the right order, then I would be checking the harness going to the controller for a pinched wire or backed out connections.

mpmoller   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 22 2017 3:12pm

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by mpmoller » Jun 24 2018 12:44pm

Here is the video. I have made it public now. Can you see it?
https://youtu.be/OcXteK3OIt0

Hmm.

Yes the motor spins a tiny little bit but get interrupted by the halls error.

EDIT:
I will try to check it out again to see for any bad wireing.

larsb   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 616
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by larsb » Jun 24 2018 1:38pm

It doesn't have to be the halls, i have also got this error when it actually was the Adaptto controller that was not functioning.

mpmoller   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 22 2017 3:12pm

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by mpmoller » Jun 24 2018 2:46pm

larsb wrote:
Jun 24 2018 1:38pm
It doesn't have to be the halls, i have also got this error when it actually was the Adaptto controller that was not functioning.


Are the error on the dispay all the time, or only partly like mine? My controller has been sitting still for about a month with no use. Worked when i took it apart from the old bike.

larsb   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 616
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by larsb » Jun 24 2018 3:04pm

This error popped up when pulling the throttle like in this case. It turned out the controller needed a repair, i think the main boards were damaged

mpmoller   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 22 2017 3:12pm

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by mpmoller » Jun 24 2018 4:08pm

larsb wrote:
Jun 24 2018 3:04pm
This error popped up when pulling the throttle like in this case. It turned out the controller needed a repair, i think the main boards were damaged
Did your wheel even turn a bit when you used the throttle or did it not move and instantly give you the error? Did you try to run the bike in sensorless mode, and how did it behave?

larsb   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 616
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by larsb » Jun 25 2018 8:34am

It was a long time ago. I think first the controller worked for a little, error could be fixed by powering on/off but in the end it was completely dead, only error message

mpmoller   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 22 2017 3:12pm

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by mpmoller » Jun 25 2018 10:52am

larsb wrote:
Jun 25 2018 8:34am
It was a long time ago. I think first the controller worked for a little, error could be fixed by powering on/off but in the end it was completely dead, only error message
Okay. I am not sure its the same error we got then. But thanks anyway.

mpmoller   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 22 2017 3:12pm

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by mpmoller » Jul 02 2018 3:42pm

Okay guys. I replaced the wire in the motor today. All looked fine, and went well.

Well... :cry:
Same problem.
I suspect it the hall-sensors in the motor that is roasted. Does anyone know what kind they are?

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 25117
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by amberwolf » Jul 03 2018 12:20am

See my post in the other thread you posted the question to.


But note that if the halls are switching correctly per the tests on the Grin Tech site under Learn - Troubleshootingg, it's unlikely that they're causing the problem.

User avatar
madin88   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2760
Joined: May 27 2013 2:02am
Location: Austria

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by madin88 » Jul 03 2018 2:31am

Usually "halls e2" means there is something wrong with the sensor, but "halls e1" is related to another problem with the controller (driver boards i believe). I had similar problem and either you send the controller to russia for a repair, or you put it into the garbage.
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
- Fully road legal (L1E approval) e-bike based on Votec V-FR frame
/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

mpmoller   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 22 2017 3:12pm

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by mpmoller » Jul 03 2018 7:57am

amberwolf wrote:
Jul 03 2018 12:20am
See my post in the other thread you posted the question to.


But note that if the halls are switching correctly per the tests on the Grin Tech site under Learn - Troubleshootingg, it's unlikely that they're causing the problem.
Well. One of the halls sets are roasted for sure. They give me a instant hall sensor error on the adaptto screen. I overheated the motor one, and think its from there and i changed it the the other set.

mpmoller   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 22 2017 3:12pm

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by mpmoller » Jul 03 2018 8:03am

madin88 wrote:
Jul 03 2018 2:31am
Usually "halls e2" means there is something wrong with the sensor, but "halls e1" is related to another problem with the controller (driver boards i believe). I had similar problem and either you send the controller to russia for a repair, or you put it into the garbage.
How was your problem? Did it say eco at first, but when your turned the wheel did it change to !halls!?
The funny thing is, that i can rotate the wheel back again to the starting point and it changes to eco again. This makes me believe its one of the 3 halls that have gone bad.
I am not sure, but i am going to change them anyways to see if it fixes the problem. If that is not the case i will buy a Max-E....

User avatar
madin88   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2760
Joined: May 27 2013 2:02am
Location: Austria

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by madin88 » Jul 03 2018 8:33am

mpmoller wrote:
Jul 03 2018 8:03am
How was your problem? Did it say eco at first, but when your turned the wheel did it change to !halls!?
The funny thing is, that i can rotate the wheel back again to the starting point and it changes to eco again. This makes me believe its one of the 3 halls that have gone bad.
I am not sure, but i am going to change them anyways to see if it fixes the problem. If that is not the case i will buy a Max-E....
In my case autodetect pop up "halls e1" after 2 seconds. It never did finish even the first step.
In main screen it sometimes did show "protect" or the "halls" message, but sometimes the motor did spin up if i applied throttle. Sometimes it got stuck and did not spin up (while high current was pushed into the motor). It was really strange.

If you know that you have overheated your motor and one set of halls already is faulty, than it makes absolutley sense to swap them out.
When hall sensors start to fail, it could be that they switch properly so you think they are OK, but another time they don't switch anymore. I once this problem that at ambient temperature the sensors did work properly, but at about 50°C and higher one got stuck at 5V and did not switch to 0V anymore.
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
- Fully road legal (L1E approval) e-bike based on Votec V-FR frame
/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 25117
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by amberwolf » Jul 03 2018 11:51am

mpmoller wrote:
Jul 03 2018 7:57am
Well. One of the halls sets are roasted for sure. They give me a instant hall sensor error on the adaptto screen. I overheated the motor one, and think its from there and i changed it the the other set.
If changing to the other hall set fixed the problem completely, then it's probably a hall or a wire in the first set. If it did not completley fix the problem, it may not be the halls (except that if they all got overheated beyond design limits, they could all have damage of different kinds).


Controller giving hall errror doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with the halls; that's why I asked what the test results are from the tests the Grin site recommends. As Madin88 notes, you might have to test them at different temperatures too, to be sure they're working in their full temperature range.


Sometimes controllers just stop working right, sometimes for environmental reasons (vibration, heat, moisture, etc), sometimes from manufacturing defects (poor soldering, trace interconnect problems, etc). If they can't reliable read a hall signal that is actually correct and coming in properly thru the wires to the controller board itself, becuase of a connection issue between MCU and incoming pad, or because a pullup resistor has a connection problem either to the pad or to the pullup voltage, then the hall will appear to have a problem when it's actually the controller.

mpmoller   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 22 2017 3:12pm

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by mpmoller » Jul 05 2018 5:47am

amberwolf wrote:
Jul 03 2018 11:51am
mpmoller wrote:
Jul 03 2018 7:57am
Well. One of the halls sets are roasted for sure. They give me a instant hall sensor error on the adaptto screen. I overheated the motor one, and think its from there and i changed it the the other set.
If changing to the other hall set fixed the problem completely, then it's probably a hall or a wire in the first set. If it did not completley fix the problem, it may not be the halls (except that if they all got overheated beyond design limits, they could all have damage of different kinds).


Controller giving hall errror doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with the halls; that's why I asked what the test results are from the tests the Grin site recommends. As Madin88 notes, you might have to test them at different temperatures too, to be sure they're working in their full temperature range.


Sometimes controllers just stop working right, sometimes for environmental reasons (vibration, heat, moisture, etc), sometimes from manufacturing defects (poor soldering, trace interconnect problems, etc). If they can't reliable read a hall signal that is actually correct and coming in properly thru the wires to the controller board itself, becuase of a connection issue between MCU and incoming pad, or because a pullup resistor has a connection problem either to the pad or to the pullup voltage, then the hall will appear to have a problem when it's actually the controller.
Yeah, that is truely strange. I just got the new halls, 10 pieces, so i have plenty to take from if anything should go wrong again. They are soooo small, haha.
Hmm. I will try to change the halls first. If that does not fix it, I need to buy a new controller.
I will let you know, how it goes. It will take me a couple of days to change the halls, as I dont have that much time atm.

mpmoller   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 22 2017 3:12pm

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by mpmoller » Jul 05 2018 6:01am

amberwolf wrote:
Jul 03 2018 11:51am
mpmoller wrote:
Jul 03 2018 7:57am
Well. One of the halls sets are roasted for sure. They give me a instant hall sensor error on the adaptto screen. I overheated the motor one, and think its from there and i changed it the the other set.
If changing to the other hall set fixed the problem completely, then it's probably a hall or a wire in the first set. If it did not completley fix the problem, it may not be the halls (except that if they all got overheated beyond design limits, they could all have damage of different kinds).


Controller giving hall errror doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with the halls; that's why I asked what the test results are from the tests the Grin site recommends. As Madin88 notes, you might have to test them at different temperatures too, to be sure they're working in their full temperature range.


Sometimes controllers just stop working right, sometimes for environmental reasons (vibration, heat, moisture, etc), sometimes from manufacturing defects (poor soldering, trace interconnect problems, etc). If they can't reliable read a hall signal that is actually correct and coming in properly thru the wires to the controller board itself, becuase of a connection issue between MCU and incoming pad, or because a pullup resistor has a connection problem either to the pad or to the pullup voltage, then the hall will appear to have a problem when it's actually the controller.
Yeah. Its not always easy to troubleshoot a ebike, haha. I hope the new halls will fix the problem. I will also try to use a hairblower to heat it up a bit, to see if i encounter any problems when its get warmer.

Thanks to both of you. Very nice with the suggestions.

mpmoller   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Oct 22 2017 3:12pm

Re: Strange halls sensor problems - Adaptto, Mxus.

Post by mpmoller » Jul 07 2018 11:34am

You guys where right. It must be the controller. I just changed all the hall sensors in the motor. As i said earlier one of the halls just gave me an instant !halls! error. That set was roasted. They both work now, but gives me the eco first, then if i turn the wheel the halls error again.

Thanks for the help!
I will be buying a new controller.

Post Reply