Programming APT AE96600 controller (update: NOT recommended , unstable program)

Get all your technical information about electric bikes here.
mainfuse   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 4
Joined: Mar 19 2012 2:45pm

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by mainfuse » Feb 09 2020 3:54pm

does anyone have the wire drawing for the APT 72400 controller? thanks Brian

stormizer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 05 2020 4:00am

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by stormizer » Mar 05 2020 4:03am

Despite the big sign saying "don't buy" .. I managed to get this controller by chance and have to make the most out of it.
I got the bike running and everything but...

Where do I get the program/apps/software to configure it.
I can't find it in google even after I went to the 2nd page of the search result.
Do I get the wrong keyword or ...?
Can somebody help me with the link to download?

*I can't contact my seller (MIA) and not sure if QS Motor will ever reply (do they?)
Last edited by stormizer on Apr 19 2020 12:36pm, edited 1 time in total.

larsb   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2025
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by larsb » Mar 05 2020 4:29am

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1512320

You need the programming cable—> QS Motor

stormizer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 05 2020 4:00am

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by stormizer » Mar 05 2020 8:06am

Thanks larb for the link.
I got the programming cable ready.

FYI
I am running QS hub-motor 8 kw 17" wheel.
2x (in paralal) LifePo4 96v(32s) 28Ah with 60A BMS
Been test-running it the last 3 days.
Still in default settings –god knows what parameter is inside. ECO mode topped up at around 45kph, Normal mode is fun, backward is good, Boost is not enabled yet (running out of switch), regen/braking is not enabled yet (cable and lazy).

So far I am a happy camper. Just need to tweak one or two parameter and see how it goes.
e.g.:
Currently if I let the throttle off, the thing feels like it just coast to infinity.
Can't feel any regen/braking at all.

Hopefully I won't brick the controller.

Suswinarko   10 µW

10 µW
Posts: 5
Joined: Mar 20 2020 12:40pm

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by Suswinarko » Mar 20 2020 7:02pm

mainfuse wrote:
Feb 09 2020 3:54pm
does anyone have the wire drawing for the APT 72400 controller? thanks Brian
I have wiring for apt72260 looks like the same with 72400.
Attachments
IMG_20200321_064530.jpg
Wiring apt72260
IMG_20200321_064530.jpg (494.7 KiB) Viewed 1523 times

stormizer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 05 2020 4:00am

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by stormizer » Apr 13 2020 4:42am

Hi All...
Despite the various softwares that I got (thanks guys).. unfortunately I still can't get connected to the controller.

I am totally baffled by this issue. Probably its a hardware issue now.
––I am using RS232 to TTL then TTL to USB, also tried
-- RS232 to TTL then Arduino as TTL to USB,
––I do have RS232 to USB, but it is too old, Win10 is not recognize/support it.

Can you tell me more on how do you all connect to the APT controller?
Hardware wise:
- What do you use to interface between the controller and computer?
Software side:
- Does it has to strictly run on Win7?

I am trying to narrow down my problem by copying a successful setup.
Any help will be appreciated as I don't think I can afford to replace to another brand controller anytime soon :-(


.

SergeyNikulochkin   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 43
Joined: May 06 2019 4:35am

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by SergeyNikulochkin » Apr 13 2020 1:41pm

Обычный RS кабель, а от контроллера к этому кабелю я спаял сам

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 32118
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by amberwolf » Apr 14 2020 12:18am

SergeyNikulochkin wrote:
Apr 13 2020 1:41pm
Обычный RS кабель, а от контроллера к этому кабелю я спаял сам
what?

Jonno   100 W

100 W
Posts: 208
Joined: Sep 30 2016 6:41am
Location: UK

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by Jonno » Apr 15 2020 2:34am

Translates to : The usual RS cable, and from the controller to this cable I soldered myself.

Jonno
Modified EEB frame, 888 forks, 280mm DNM pit bike shock, QS273 40h V3 3.5t, Nucular Electronics 24F controller 300a, 92V @ 36ah 26650 cells, 300a BMS with bypass,
Hope V4 + Galfer 223mm discs + Variable regen braking.
Amongst other builds.

stormizer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 05 2020 4:00am

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by stormizer » Apr 16 2020 5:39am

Answering my own question..
The trouble was the RS232 cable.

The one I had (a few different types) contain an old chip that is not supported anymore by Windows.
Using the right cable (newer chip), it was pretty much plug-n-play.

I also found out that the "EV DriveManager V2.0.0.10.1.exe" version has one important setting not visible on the previous versions: Engine Brake (or whatever the correct term is). We can set how much to put back to battery on "throttle release" and on "brake on".
The default number is -100 ... crank it up to -2000 to start feeling it.
I got mine at -4000 and its putting back about 10A when I release throttle.

Thanks so much!

stormizer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 05 2020 4:00am

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by stormizer » Apr 19 2020 12:46pm

Hi All,
Thanks for all the help before.
I have further questions about setting up this controller:

My startup torque feels a little mushy. As if the controller limit the power output until certain speed before gradually unleash the power. I got a hang of the Iqref settings (under protection) by now..
But the 0-40kmh still accelerate rather soft. It only gets interesting after 40kmh ( :D )

Could you direct me on which settings to change to increase the startup acceleration?

I don't really intend to do wheelie or burn out (is it even posible with a hub motor?)
Although I can't say that it won't be interesting. :twisted:

Thanks in advance
I am using QS 8kw hub-motor on 17" wheel.

larsb   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2025
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by larsb » Apr 19 2020 2:07pm

Either your phase angle is not correct or you need to increase phase current and battery current.

600A phase correctly pushed into your hub motor will make it everything but mushy.

User avatar
MJSfoto1956   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1130
Joined: Jul 28 2010 9:28pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Apr 19 2020 5:42pm

larsb wrote:
Apr 19 2020 2:07pm
600A phase correctly pushed into your hub motor will make it everything but mushy.
+1 what Larsb said, with a caveat: if your battery, or cables, and/or controller are not up to it, then you will likely need to back things down to 400A, 350A, 300A, or even less depending on your particular setup.

M
Bois and their fancy tacticool ain't cool -- it's a pathetic circle jerk

QANON is a sick cult: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/cu ... e-1064076/

stormizer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 05 2020 4:00am

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by stormizer » Apr 21 2020 4:20am

Thanks guys...

I believe I have set the max phase current to 600A ––not really sure how to verify;
I suspect it is the phase angle thingy, as I don't understand most of the settings jargon.
Will do a search on it.

Incase you have a shortcut that I can copy :wink: my motor is:
QS WP80029X 190924 4140
According to QS documentation (somewhere) it means:
V3 Motor with 16 pole pairs, 8000 watt, 40 windings, 32 magnet

Battery side.. Generic BMS with 120A continous (peak around 300A ?)
No cutoff event so far ––Maybe because I set Mode 4 idc at 150A (?)

*
Also attached is my current motor parameter settings –pretty much default


Edit:
I found this documentation..
Seems like my phase angle is already "as recommended" for my WP motor (at -105 degree)
Not sure if its related but at Aliexpress spec, they mention "Hall Sensor Phasing angle: 120 degree"
Any ideas?

xxx.jpg
xxx.jpg (112.41 KiB) Viewed 1326 times
31bc094a-f814-4205-9379-96582ec60774.jpg
31bc094a-f814-4205-9379-96582ec60774.jpg (117.75 KiB) Viewed 1326 times

stormizer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 05 2020 4:00am

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by stormizer » Apr 24 2020 5:14am

Bump :-)

Went for Dyno and the chart kinda shows the "mushy" part of the low torque. The blue line. I suspect that my combo of parts can do better with the right settings.

Any idea on where/which part of the setting I should tweak to make it do something like burn-out and wheelie?

I promise I won't do that too often.
Attachments
IMG_20200424_174107_035.jpg
IMG_20200424_174107_035.jpg (145.4 KiB) Viewed 1308 times
IMG-20200424-WA0004.jpg
IMG-20200424-WA0004.jpg (136.69 KiB) Viewed 1308 times

larsb   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2025
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by larsb » Apr 24 2020 7:20am

Set dc current to 250A, phase current on 600A for all rpms. Hope you have a temp sensor in your motor :wink:

Do you have sport mode button connected? Connect it, or hardwire the correct pins.

Is 531 Nm torque correct? Wouldn’t call that mushy.
You should show the dyno chart vs rpm, time is not so meaningful.

Cheers/ Larsb

stormizer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 05 2020 4:00am

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by stormizer » Apr 24 2020 12:30pm

Thanks Larsb.
If I got it right, the issue is at my "Input Current" which I set at 150A (and limited by the battery BMS). (Yes?)
Other than that, seems like the weak point for me is the cable from controller to motor. That thing heats up to an untouchable condition during short hard riding. The rest of the cables and even the motor is just "warm". The unfortunate issue is that I don't think I am good enough to change/upgrade that cable ––as it will require opening the motor etc etc.

The 531Nm is wrong.
The guy put the setting at 0.24 gear ratio –when my hub-motor is obviously at 1:1
So its more like 531Nm x 0.24 = 127 Nm (more sensible)
RPM also 15172 x 0.24 = 3641

Interestingly.. since I set Max RPM at 2550, the indicated rpm by the dyno means that the flux weakening thing is working. Some extra 1000rpm after the set max.

larsb   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2025
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by larsb » Apr 24 2020 2:32pm

127Nm is not so much. Is it a QS motor? What do they rate it at for torque?

What is your protection settings?

User avatar
MJSfoto1956   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1130
Joined: Jul 28 2010 9:28pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Apr 25 2020 7:36am

stormizer wrote:
Apr 19 2020 12:46pm
I don't really intend to do wheelie or burn out (is it even posible with a hub motor?)
Although I can't say that it won't be interesting. :twisted:
Do you have the 3-speed switch installed?
At the power setting, you will likely get decent burnout.
At the Eco setting you'll likely double your range.

Michael
Bois and their fancy tacticool ain't cool -- it's a pathetic circle jerk

QANON is a sick cult: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/cu ... e-1064076/

larsb   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2025
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by larsb » Apr 25 2020 2:01pm

So if the dyno was incorrect i’d guess i’s worth to recalculate:

96V battery and 150A is 14.4kW max for your system
25hp is 18.6kW but correction 0.24 puts it at 4.5kW

Yeah, that’s poor. You’d need to upload all settings screens to get more help.

stormizer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 05 2020 4:00am

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by stormizer » Apr 30 2020 11:53pm

Thanks guys!!
I appreciate all the helps.
Attached is my setting.
Please let me know if there is anything I can improve and/or should watch out for.

Sidenote:
My BMS is rated at 120A, with unknown burst –I know it works coz at some point during hard throttle, it cuts my power off.
Battery is generic LifePo4 of unknown origin (China?). Total nominal 96Ah 56Ah.
My seller mentioned the battery is rated at 3C. Being not familiar with LifePo4, I am not sure if that 3C is normal or peak. Thus the 120A cap from BMS keeps me feels safe. What do you think?
Attachments
Settings.jpg
Settings.jpg (274.16 KiB) Viewed 1195 times

larsb   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2025
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by larsb » May 01 2020 5:25am

If you get cutouts from bms then i’d lower the battery current setting. Bms cutouts create voltage spikes in the system and it stresses the electronics.

What drive mode are you using? I’d try connecting the boost button and see if this mode has more kick for you.

stormizer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 05 2020 4:00am

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by stormizer » May 02 2020 10:56pm

So far I only got several cutout..
That was before I lower the Max IDC and during prolonged Boost.
These days I never got any cutout anymore.
"stresses the electronics" <-- noted, will watch out for it.

Boost is connected and works pretty well.
Still not feeling any significant kick on startup (hold boost while throttling from stop).
After rolling (maybe 20-30 kph), I can definitely feel the kick.

If I learn anything from our discussion..
what I need to get a sporty start is:
- Increase the Mode IDC to something much more than 120A
- Upgrade/Change BMS to higher Amps to avoid cutout

Am I on the right direction there?
Or you think there is other settings I need to watch out?

larsb   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2025
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by larsb » May 03 2020 1:38am

Normally there will not be decreased phase current due to low battery current at start/low rpm. I don’t think this is your issue.

Could you try some things:
unselect backward enable setting, does it change anything?
Your program is more complete than the one i have. Can you set motor lock iac and heavy load iac parameter to 100%? Does it change anything?

stormizer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 05 2020 4:00am

Re: Programming APT AE96600 controller (UPDATE: don't buy..)

Post by stormizer » May 03 2020 11:07am

Motor Lock IAC is maxed at 30. Any number i put beyond will read back as 30.
Heavy Load IAC .. Originally at 50%, I increased to 70%. Doesnt seems to have much impact.

Will try to play more with Heavy Load Iac tomorrow.
Also the backward enable as suggested. Who knows ;-)
Normally there will not be decreased phase current due to low battery current at start/low rpm.
This is very interesting. That probably explains why I can see around 200A during startup ––measured out from battery
Either that or the max input (batt) current is combination of Mode 4 IDC and Heavy Load Iac (?)
– in my case 120A + 70% = 204 A


-----
Program I am using can be downloaded here
http://azhar.pangesti.com/APT/
Its a mixed bag of stuff collected from various places. Sorry for the mess

-----

Backtrack a bit.
Re: dyno result.
96V battery and 150A is 14.4kW max for your system
25hp is 18.6kW but correction 0.24 puts it at 4.5kW
I don't think the horsepower need to be corrected by 0.24 gear ratio .. as it is only related to rpm.
I mean.. there is no way I can get decent riding (which i have now) with 4.5kw.
The resulting 25hp (18.6kw) feels about right.

Post Reply