Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by DanGT86 » Oct 18 2020 12:06pm

I guess it depends on what you consider "wrong". It's well documented that this model of motor has trouble with sine wave controllers. It even says on the LMX website not to use it with sine wave controllers. So I don't think my personal motor is broken or defective.

I'll reach out to the other users of this motor with Nuc controllers and see if anyone else is having issues.

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by PITMIX » Oct 18 2020 12:18pm

From what i know all the users of its engines have had problems at first but it seems to be working fine now.
you can read the previous 15 pages there are several cases like yours.
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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by Merlin » Oct 18 2020 8:22pm

i know a bunch of "LMX Motor" riders who have no problem at all with the nuc.

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by DanGT86 » Oct 18 2020 10:05pm

If any of them would be willing to send me their calibration file that would be great.

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 19 2020 1:48am

I had a similar issue with my LMX64 when I first got it after increasing the amps too much.

Weirdly, since I did a firmware update I was able to set the amps high again and now it doesn't do it any more.

So maybe do a firmware update?

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by Merlin » Oct 19 2020 4:35am

DanGT86 wrote:
Oct 18 2020 10:05pm
If any of them would be willing to send me their calibration file that would be great.
please export your config and post it here.

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by DanGT86 » Oct 19 2020 8:31am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Oct 19 2020 1:48am
I had a similar issue with my LMX64 when I first got it after increasing the amps too much.

Weirdly, since I did a firmware update I was able to set the amps high again and now it doesn't do it any more.

So maybe do a firmware update?

Cheers
I believe I have the latest firmware. I'll double check. Just curious, at what current level did you start to see problems? Also which problem, the stuttering or the fault at full throttle dead stop?
Merlin wrote:
Oct 19 2020 4:35am
please export your config and post it here.
I'll try to get that posted today.

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by DanGT86 » Oct 19 2020 2:33pm

Here is the problematic config file if anyone wants to take a look at it.
DanGT LMX problem.txt
(7.96 KiB) Downloaded 13 times

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 20 2020 12:55am

I had stuttering, but only when going WOT from dead stop, and only when I increased amps of the motor acceleration. I think it's the a/sec ramp up or similar. Try reducing that.
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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by DanGT86 » Oct 20 2020 9:11am

Bummer, the amps/sec is the fun part. Are you using FOC mode? Where are you currently set at regarding amp/sec and total phase amps?

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 20 2020 8:30pm

Agree, but after I upgraded my firmware it doesn't seem to matter what value I use there any more. I think it also matters what tune you have for the motor. Try redoing the auto detect on your motor.
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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by DanGT86 » Oct 24 2020 5:13pm

Repeated the auto setup with the new Pid settings. No change. I'm still having the same issue.

I also tried using square mode and reducing the amps/sec ramp and it still does the cut out fault at full throttle from a stop.

Any other ideas?

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 24 2020 7:18pm

I never had the cut out issue, just the stuttering, however I have seen similar issues before on my Adaptto controllers.
In those cases it was the throttle and I had to adjust the voltage curve and top/bottom cutoff values. From memory it was causing a fault mode in the controller due the voltage rising either too quickly or overshooting limits.

Try another throttle maybe?

Cheers
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For Sale:
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs - Australia only
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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by DanGT86 » Oct 24 2020 7:41pm

Good thinking. The sudden current draw could be causing a spike or dip in the throttle signal voltage triggering a fault.

I'll try and adjust or disable the throttle fault detection.

It seems weird that its only in square mode and not FOC. I wonder if FOC has a slower ramp on initial start up.

There is definitely something about FOC that has trouble with light load when the motor is spinning. Its most apparent at full speed unloaded because there is no resistance on the motor. Dragging the brake even a little bit totally smooths the motor. Does FOC need a certain amount of field/current to detect properly? Maybe I'm below this threshold?

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by PITMIX » Oct 25 2020 12:16am

I have this problem with the 24F if the accelerator pedal exceeds the programmed maximum voltage. It is a security. During self-learning, I press the pedal to the max and the controller records the maximum pedal stroke. But when I do a no-load test I manually activate the throttle cable, so I exceed the programmed throttle curve, which causes a safety cutout. It's written in the Wikidot Nucular.
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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 25 2020 12:54am

PITMIX you just jogged my memory, I also have a similar problem, but the reverse. After I flashed firmware a while back I had constant slow wheel spin even with no throttle. It was the throttle voltage thresholds like you, with the lowest voltage of the default config higher than my throttle was actually sitting.
Hope that helps.

Cheers
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Cowardlyducks - Videos - Ride videos
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For Sale:
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs - Australia only
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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by DanGT86 » Oct 26 2020 9:29am

Got some time to fiddle with this setup over the weekend.
Throttle error: Gave myself some headroom on min and max throttle voltages to isolate voltage drop/spike as the cause of the cutout.
-conclusion: this was not the cause. The cutout is clearly a current overload as I could see them counting up in the status flags display

Square control current overload: My 6FET is set to 120 Phase amps. Controller says I'm peaking at 140 and causing an overload. Reducing the max phase to 100 prevents this overload fault. So in the mean time I have a nice smooth running setup I can enjoy while I continue to troubleshoot FOC. I am also planning to mess around with PID to see if I can get closer to 120 phase amps without triggering the overload. I'm not sure if this will work and I should probably invest my time in tuning FOC.

FOC issues: Still didn't get anywhere on this. Same problem as always. light application of throttle from any speed makes the motor slightly growl. Its annoying but I can keep it from doing this by being more aggressive with the throttle. I can also run my phase amps up at 120 with no overload faults in FOC. I have talked to Vasliliy on the telegram chat and have some things to try regarding the PID tuning. I'm now doing my research on PID control so I can get a better idea of what I am doing.

Possible Bad hall signal: As is known with the LMX motor and according to a lot of you guys' suggestions including Vasiliy, the hall signal from this motor might not be up to the task. I'm going to check it with the scope and see if I need to physically move the halls in the motor. I hope not but a little bit of mechanical trouble is better than possibly weeks of chasing my tail with tuning for nothing. I'll post results of my hall testing.

So that's where I am at if anyone is following along at home. The good news is I still have a very rideable setup that is super fun even in square mode and lightyears ahead of every other controller setup I have ever used! Definitely don't want to sound like I am complaining about this awesome controller. I would advise anyone shopping for one to by the next size up. I'm already dreaming about a 12FET and I've only had this thing for a few weeks :lol:

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by PITMIX » Oct 26 2020 10:52am

Indeed I had this problem with my 24F at 500A phases and a Qs 138 70h which is intended for 470A phases. Look in the manufacturer's manual for the maximum admissible phase current on your motor.
It's probably less than 120A phase.
If not then your controller is undersized.
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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by DanGT86 » Oct 26 2020 10:16pm

Adam at LMX said this motor can handle peaks of 180amps but he is not the original designer of the motor so who knows what its intended limits are. It is not hard to believe that the halls placement and wire size would cause some weird issues at current levels way higher than they were designed for. Does too much current in a motor overpower the magnets field strength and confuse hall sensors?

I think its pretty likely that I'm just pushing this controller at close to 100% of its design limits and I'll need some Good tuning to get away with it. If square mode is less precise then other control strategy then I'm not surprised it would peak over the limit when I'm set right at that limit.

I was playing with the FOC ki and FOC kp values today trying to understand them. I noticed something that might be a clue. Im in torque mode so light throttle with the wheel in the air will still reach max rpm. In my case that was 3700rpm. At about 20% throttle the motor goes from perfectly smooth to growling stuttering like its lost sync. The motor doesnt speed up though whether its stuttering or smooth. So its not the rpm causing the problem but the application of the throttle that makes it go bad.

If my halls were the problem wouldnt the problem be related totally to rpm and not throttle position?

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by PITMIX » Oct 27 2020 12:56am

The advantage of this controller is that it can be set to different parameters. If your controller is undersized reduce the battery amps and phase amps and you will see if it works properly. Also in the control menu you can adjust the acceleration curve as you wish. It is possible to adjust the acceleration slope in exponential, linear or even custom. For my part, I set a very gentle acceleration slope for starting and then very brutal for acceleration.
I manage to run my 400kg vehicle very well with 5kW and also well with 25kW and 6000rpm. If you want to get the most out of your engine you should order a 12F.
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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by csc » Oct 27 2020 4:44am

Hi there

I copy paste my vote sent to https://feedback.nucular.tech/posts/6/t ... n-for-2-wd

Please, if you plan any multi motor configuration, vote for that feature too, it would be both a performance and security improvement !

After two years in 2wd 2x12f, I'm going to be 24f rear and 12f front soon.

So the front wheel will spin even more during strong accelerations, unless I reduce the front wheel power, which is a bit frustrating.

What happens is that the rear QS273 4000 takes the whole acceleration effort and is able to lift the front (MXUS 3k) (wheelie effect). So when I WOT, the front wheel is going to turn much faster, because of the loss of grip. The result is that I have to reduce the acceleration in order not to fall (a front gyroscope is not the most easily drivable stuff), while the rear motor is still pushing without loss of grip on the rear.

A software making the front slave of the rear, in terms of SPEED, would make things much safer in case of WOT, while sending a little more watts to the road.

So I ++++ this idea of synchronisation, please ! I want to be able to use the maximum possible power during acceleration !!!

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by john61ct » Oct 27 2020 1:57pm

Put a battery pack more toward the front, maybe even in a handlebar "basket"?

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by serious_sam » Oct 27 2020 4:22pm

csc wrote:
Oct 27 2020 4:44am
A software making the front slave of the rear, in terms of SPEED, would make things much safer in case of WOT, while sending a little more watts to the road.
Agreed that this would be a good feature for dual motor operation.

Something along similar lines would be traction control and wheelie control. Shouldn't be too hard to implement in a controller of this sophistication. The main Nucular website states that the display has "integrated accelerometer", so that could be used as feedback for the control loop.

With regards to your problem, you might get slightly better front grip if you use speed mode (instead of torque mode), and reduce the acceleration rate for the front controller (in the wiki it is listed as "current change speed"). So when it does lose traction, it wont immediately spin up to full speed. Not a solution, but maybe just make it a little more controllable.

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by John in CR » Oct 28 2020 12:57am

I believe you could greatly limit the spin of the front wheel by adjusting the acceleration limit setting of the controller for the front wheel. I seem to recall the name of the item being "Maximum Safe Acceleration" in the menu.

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Re: Nucular Electronics owner's thread (setup infos, FW updates, links etc.)

Post by PITMIX » Oct 28 2020 1:29am

This is correct in the advanced control mode there is a setting allowing the traction control of the wheels by limiting the angular acceleration of the motor. It is also possible to limit the deceleration of the motor.
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