Unusual Motor Behavior-Who has seem this???

R

Robert62

1 mW
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
11
I just finished setting up my 3rd ebike and I am having a problem. I purchased a 48v Luna shark pack and I have paired it with a Chinese 1000w non-geared hub motor. It is throttle only with no PAS. It has an LCD control.
The issue is intermittent glitch in the power while riding. I say glitch because it is more like a bump and not a pure loss of power. It seems like one set of coils gets out of phase for a split second and causes the motor to jolt. I have already ruled out the battery since I get the same intermittent problem with a different battery. I believe it is a loose connection, interference between cables, or a bad hall sensor. I have checked all the connections visually. I am sure it is not the main power connector. I can rule out the brake cutoff since that behaves differently (smooth cut in power.) That leave me with the LDC display control, the throttle cable or the hall cables/sensors.
Given all this info, which of those is the most likely culprit? Which would be the most sensitive to inductive interference? This may be a tough nut to crack and I am hoping someone has seen this exact issue before.
Many thanks,
Robert

Here is a pic of the bike because I know we all like pics!
3V_o1xtxSwD9NeC-FwUwCpHztvYL71zbSmRngFSZA9dcCDYC49MyRkX2DP7uWx42W6Pl5LEnS18KXoC677RJV4GUe27imbBbDHG7Eky93JsruTHqz53FuAQqIxNgldAEDJR8yFftdbH9mIikWg8Xmf4ShABTbvi11H5LA0gGrvkaVGAMcT0ifKKyLjY577UX5u5vJ5VUdn-nY3upTBxKFy7DaGgej6AUUA6lVcMnq08Vxi6TQB7qByjmX2wBNG0PanWnJKr_K7vQcQFZmmoSFkzrGLFC2YbhqIcl6lc2W3M5xaeCQ1ge4o59_HxEmTJf2rbEoXTK2vWy2wJFkivt2Fxo_S6lAde3JLX5C_Zdkn_c-iG1l6qyzGpA1cCwQhoB8dMIJZhjiM1F3zhAHHfYViORJJH3_GUPmmnFtHVfZZKYiTl3uJdY0itUrUHkbOOwLxeTjOUJ2DD-Qyb3jSN8yKayUxrVYuKUOdmaeR91Z2-EhYmM5EUWhMS9-XQume-Vv6yAzykE0yi2Jh7brknjYT5luUApiRSPn9-KBlZqnlWgjCNUoZTW8Z8OwqIYsZjLL-6qxKsNx_g138mgpfct7_VdsMDD7c6UGHJTR3CcKMNLmRD6_eChrLOmugYfd-LwiMPLdJHWwjkV7VCkvC5hWUnWDCRhDAbirRrPbfT4E5UAZmJgnQsGo5HWhFgtYSxwK6HV-0x3L2b6fIW7WP4=w1411-h1058-no
 
Your image isn't showing.

Anyway, you probably want a realtime watt meter to help figure out whether it is a battery issue or a wiring issue for some other component.
If it's a battery issue, you'll see a sudden voltage dip when this occurs. it will at least give you a clue.
Other wiring issues, i sort out by jiggling various cords while riding the bike.

Motor controllers won't magically forget what phase to fire. Interference at the motor level is nearly impossible as the motor is surrounded with aluminum. Very unlikely.

But if you bought a really cheap chinese kit, consider every part of it suspect.

How many amps does your controller draw and what's the amp hours of your pack.. and what cells does it have inside?
 
If you have another throttle to test it with, try that. It might just be something loose inside, or a bad solder joint in there. It's an easy thing to test, and in my experience one of the most common failures.

I've also experienced similar symptoms from bad hall sensor connections.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.
The battery is ruled out as I explained. I have the same wheel on another bike that runs flawlessly. Swapping the batteries did not fix the problem. The battery has a 30 amp BMS. Also this does not occur during peak power draw.
Motor controllers won't magically forget what phase to fire... but they will misfire if they get bad signals from bad hall sensors or faulty connections.
I will play with the throttle and see. I will also re-route some cables. I am wondering if I am getting cross talk with all the cable bundled together. Failing those 2 I think its a bad hall effect sensor or internal wire connection in the hub.
Robert
 
Almost always an intermittent issue is caused by a poor connection.

That can be a bad crimp, a bad solder joint, a break in a wire inside it's insulation (so invisible) anywhere along it's length, including right at the connector contact or PCB.

Given the symptom you have, a hall or phase wire or contact is the most likely.

Flip the bike upside down, secure the throttle in an "on" position, and start wiggling and tapping the wires and connectors.

If that doesn't find the problem, then disconnect the battery and unplug every motor connector and examine the contacts to ensure they cannot back out of their housings, and that they are mating fully with their opposites.
 
Bad connection, and despite your inspection, I believe it is on the motor wires. Because it stutters. If it just stopped powering and started back up, then the problem could easily be on throttle, or display. Or still the motor wires. Or the battery, combined with that kit.


But its stuttering, so its definitely a bad connection, or you have the wrong combo of motor wires, or something like that. Motors will sometimes run, but run shitty with the wrong combo. But this still sounds more like just a bad halls contact.
 
If you can figure out a way to lift the wheel so you can run it on a stand, then you can try wiggling the wires while it's going and see if you can trigger the fault.

There is also a possibility the loose connection is inside the controller. Smack the controller while running to test.
 
Excellent thoughts guys. Thank you all for the replies. I will report back. Too friggin cold today to do any outside testing!
BTW-Sorry about the broken pic link. I can't figure out how to link from Google Photos and Flickr has locked my account!
Robert

EDIT: I think I figured out the Google link. Please let me know if you cannot see photos in this thread.

5tZEphTAaIyCUUsU8V4oc80_T-x22hO6S9m6pJG-YZf6MM7VDeQz4A8f2lcfuJmTGr2OxRquAkI5FhOGGKXAAerQc9KGSavWBR-aHpyJpR5ccSNaXGuVPXam_zAAJIO6HFqZQ6hb51o0SLmc9A_lAJHOUadvv7hpy-wo52eXyAtoIDZyyOlR1C_i0CgwOnW8VVQqnxMSmL3O3EUxcYm4lbHVXFTzWzKX5vt8Wh58ra6aGqlK_VRGVTelwWokvPnZV9MQ8iAYIxX-jd57tCquZoX9SF5u81bS7znuqTmnMWKBbo3LG7kLh9iob49rJKbt4mRE5xXOF2D9hiwm9q5GqRhAiOpvV79oTWKsqdl1HQ7_d7ClsE3tks23M37dITKBig6oLxHxLuN9aYCTR6S29Y8IRBjcAgk3aW0gyT5nOKhFkJAVgd3gbHK_x2FJbLZ2nh1y3urJb_UEEEYQc8htlePCX_DSzcaF5OxN4WEv8RDV-rD0rRtpOJCoYawn6EjvtcfBBI6Rxi3zvRT3Q1ooObAKfQ08OF12Z8IC3H30utCGKgrBZ-GyI035enolKPKu4j_esRT7urDUwBSQXfwna6wjGn2lGU3qb4otZrEufF5936nXvsIqU4M0TAHaMmcjSjxFRi5CGMMVxQd_LCsEIfdxkRj7SKwyLUWoMPpZ-NCNT5WuQWeibfxKI_1Jx7GzyD_gciunTvpT1EShAvw=w1411-h1058-no
 
Robert62 said:
Too friggin cold today to do any outside testing!
Click to expand...
Thankfully, you can do all the testing needed while inside, in the comfort of your living room or kitchen, etc., with the bike upside down. ;)

THe simple way to make images visible is to use the Attachments tab below the box you type in when posting, and upload directly to your post.

They are alwyas visible if the post is visible, and stored with the post on teh forum, so no external sites to go away and lose all the images (which can be extremely important to some posts/threads, making the post/thread useless if the images are gone).
 
amberwolf said:
Robert62 said:
Too friggin cold today to do any outside testing!
Click to expand...
Thankfully, you can do all the testing needed while inside, in the comfort of your living room or kitchen, etc., with the bike upside down. ;)

THe simple way to make images visible is to use the Attachments tab below the box you type in when posting, and upload directly to your post.

They are alwyas visible if the post is visible, and stored with the post on teh forum, so no external sites to go away and lose all the images (which can be extremely important to some posts/threads, making the post/thread useless if the images are gone).
Click to expand...

The file limit is too small. I believe it is 512mb? Too painful to resize all my photos.
Robert
 
Robert62 said:
The file limit is too small. I believe it is 512mb? Too painful to resize all my photos
Click to expand...

Do you really have images bigger than half a gigabyte each? :shock: The biggest stuff I usually have is 5-7mb images my brother takes with his phone, or about 2-3mb from my 8MP Sony camera, and they all upload fine (though I usually resize them to much smaller).

If it really won't upload them because of their size, you can use a batch resizer like AT32resizer, which takes a few seconds to do dozens of files at a time (it's what I use).

Just keep in mind that there are people (like me) that for whatever reason can't see images from some sites, especially when linked externally. On some of them it's a random issue, on some it's permanent, and reasons vary for which site and what problem. Can't know who can't see them until those people say so, and troubleshooting that problem is often more difficult and/or time-consuming than simply attaching teh images to the post in the first place. ;)

So when troubleshooting help is needed that requires images to determine problems, help may not be available until the images are visible to the people that can help.
 
amberwolf said:
Just keep in mind that there are people (like me) that for whatever reason can't see images from some sites, especially when linked externally.
Click to expand...

When Photobucket hijacked everyone's photos and held them hostage to extort payment, a few folks came up with addons to still allow viewing of the older linked photos. There's one for Google Chrome and another for Firefox, but not for Internet Explorer. If the problem with viewing is related, just search "Photobucket Addon"
 
The file size limit is 10mb and photos do not need to be resized anymore to upload them.

512mb sounds like something that would come out of the hubble telescope. :mrgreen:
 
When I try to upload a file I get an error that says the maximum file size is 512 KB. Sorry not MB.
Where are you getting the limit is 10MB?
Robert
 
Because that's what i have it set in the administration control panel.

Here's a 2.1mb image.

prototype.jpg

Can you get me a screenshot of where you're seeing that?
 
I tried to upload a 4mb photo on Sundayband it wouldn't accept due to size, had to host it instead..
 
Neptronix- something is wrong. I would like to host the images here so they are not lost in the future. Here is the error I am seeing:



That file was only 52 KB so I could post it. You can see in the pic that I am trying to upload a 2.6 MB file and I am getting an error that it is larger than 512KB.
Am I doing something incorrecty?

Robert
 
Okay.... that's bizarre.
I'm going to look into this today. Shouldn't be occurring.
 
I guess you could ask Neptronix to move all the picture-upload-related posts to the "Adding Pictures" thread, once the problem is solved. ;)
 
Still wondering about the motor issue..... :?:

:D :bolt:
 
Yes I am. The motor is still glitching intermittently. I seems to happen most when accelerating following a coast but it is very random and not at peak demand. I does not seem to be related to a loose external connection. I'm sure it is the controller, a hall sensor or the wires in between. These wheels are so cheap I may just buy another and swap parts until I figure it out. Would not hurt to buy a better controller either.

Robert
 
I say bad throttle or as others have said, loose connection. I once had an intermittent problem like that, turned out to be a loose solder joint on the board of my watt meter.

If you have not already done so, simply the system to essentials only and see if it still does it.

:D :bolt:
 
If it really stutters, then the problem is a bad connection. It could be a cold solder joint inside the controller itself, on the motor or halls wires. Failing controller possible, but in my experience the symptoms are not stutter when that happens.

The single most common problem though, is with the white square connectors typical on scooters and cheap kits. If you have those, they are notorious for the contact backing out of the housing. Hard to spot, but once you learn to see it, easy to fix.


Completely different, if its more of a pulsing than a stutter.
 
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