250w to 1500w

I am looking at a hub motor with controller which says it has a single wire to switch between 250w street legal and 1500w off road. It has a blue wire with a plug, so assume when the plug is connected it is either 250w or 1500w, and vice versa when disconnected.

How would it do that? What is the connection inside the controller that would do that? Can all Chinese controllers do this with 1 wire?

Also, does anyone know what controller this is or could be?

It also comes with a simple throttle with tiny lcd so I will look at connecting a KT-LCD 8H display, so another question, will there be any problems hooking the controller up to the KT lcd8h or KT lcd3?

LINK:
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwj97JOnoa3gAhXBNSsKHcQBATEYABAPGgJzZg&ae=1&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESEeD2BRoK_Qi5z7hK11FgK6-j&sig=AOD64_2l5e470Ezry0BRxk1BXtprCNofGg&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiwzYynoa3gAhWKeysKHR-7DKQQwg96BAgLEAc&adurl=https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/705-139619-5960-0/2%3Fmpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com.au%252Fp%252F26-1000w-Rear-Wheel-48v-Electric-Bicycle-Bike-Motor-Conversion-Kit-Hub-Cycling%252F3011640951%253Fiid%253D122870595676%2526chn%253Dps%26itemid%3D122870595676%26targetid%3D468509338749%26device%3Dt%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9070845%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D1669177334%26adgroupid%3D64318442093%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-468509338749%26abcId%3D1139236%26merchantid%3D7364522%26gclid%3DCjwKCAiA7vTiBRAqEiwA4NTO62URV98VJq_bxXmiK9AhBOjPf4ggni_ayNpv2V23GmVb2zNuvN5-WxoCz-4QAvD_BwE

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jimmid said:

I am looking at a hub motor with controller which says it has a single wire to switch between 250w street legal and 1500w off road. It has a blue wire with a plug, so assume when the plug is connected it is either 250w or 1500w, and vice versa when disconnected.

How would it do that?

Click to expand...

Simplest way would be to change the current limit.

What is the connection inside the controller that would do that?

Click to expand...

It is likely a pin sensed by the microcontroller inside the controller.

Can all Chinese controllers do this with 1 wire?

Click to expand...

No.

Thanks Bill,

It says in the description:

Upgraded Intelligent Motor Controller:

* Allow you to swap two power modes between the full 1500W power or 250W power by a single blue switch wire is embedded in controller.(Only for Twist Throttle)

* Still remain the full 1500W power with no speed control.(Only for Pedal Assist System,"PAS")

Any idea what that means?

Looking at the wires coming from the controller does it look pretty standard?

Jim

Did you find out more on that ONE wire ?

I have a 1500W hub motor,
a 48V 11.6Ah battery and a
DC MOTO CONTROLLER ( Voltage 48v, current 18A, Speed set ? 1.1-4.2V dual mode ?, Booster 1:3 ?)

here comes the question...... I think I go top speed of 28 mph, how can I increase the speed to get closer to 40mph ?
Where to begin ?................. seems like the easy start would be to get a better controller since this one is only rated to 18A ? Tell me

Usually it's limited when the wires are plugged together, and full power when disconnected. There's no extra controller power going thru the wires... It's just telling the brain chip to go.
Not sure, but I think it's just saying that it affects both the throttle and the PAS modes.
Some of them just raise either the throttle or PAS power.

This used to be a more common setup with the one wire limiter, but now against regulations depending on where you live so less common.

Re Jimmyjohn, yours sounds like it's made for three speed switch. Do you have one hooked up? If not, it usually defaults to medium power.

The 1.1 to 4.2 is the voltage range of throttle input. Under 1.1v won't trigger it, and over 4.2 makes it think there's a throttle short, so it cuts off.

Dual mode usually means it will run without Hall sensor input.

48V x 18A = 864W. Minus conversion losses, you're looking at maybe 650W at the wheel, at optimum RPM. You're actually doing quite well to squeeze 28mph out of that. Have you measured your actual speed?

Your battery won't give you 40mph unless it has unusual power density. So if you want 1500W output from your motor, you'll need a new controller (say 40A) and a battery that is happy to provide 40A continuously. 1500W at the wheel will propel an average sized man on an average e-bike to 32-35mph. Definitely not 40mph.

If you have any ability to switch out wire connectors, I think you should figure out what your battery's continuous current rating is, and get a controller with the same rating (or a programmable controller that can be limited to that amount). Generic controllers are cheap and relatively easy to experiment with. So one cheap and easy change will maximize what you can do with the other more expensive components you have.

Just an FYI, one of my 25a labeled controllers was actually peaking at 55a during hard acceleration when I metered it. There's no way of really knowing from the label what a cheap controller actually draws .

jimmid said:

Thanks Bill,

It says in the description:
Upgraded Intelligent Motor Controller:
* Allow you to swap two power modes between the full 1500W power or 250W power by a single blue switch wire is embedded in controller.(Only for Twist Throttle)
* Still remain the full 1500W power with no speed control.(Only for Pedal Assist System,"PAS")
Any idea what that means?

Click to expand...

My guess:
-You can switch between 1500W and 250W by shorting a wire to ground. If you do that and you use a throttle you can choose between 250 and 1500 watts. If you use PAS it's always 1500 watts.

Looking at the wires coming from the controller does it look pretty standard?

Click to expand...

Relatively. There are really no color or wiring standards, but usually it isn't hard to figure out - and wires are usually grouped in a logical manner (3 or so thin wires for throttle, 3 large phase wires, 5 thin Hall wires if the controller uses them)

jimmyjohn said:

Did you find out more on that ONE wire ?

I have a 1500W hub motor,
a 48V 11.6Ah battery and a
DC MOTO CONTROLLER ( Voltage 48v, current 18A, Speed set ? 1.1-4.2V dual mode ?, Booster 1:3 ?)

here comes the question...... I think I go top speed of 28 mph, how can I increase the speed to get closer to 40mph ?
Where to begin ?.

Click to expand...

You will need a better controller and likely a better battery and motor as well. You might need a better frame, too. For 40mph you are going to need on the order of 2500-3000 watts, and you really need a good frame. I'd recommend full suspension; downhill frame if you can get it. (Even small bumps and holes will really hammer the frame at 40mph.)

Thanks everyone for all your replies on this.
I should get it in a couple of weeks (as I'm away for a little while).
I will let you know all about it when I get it.
Thanks again.

You will never use the limiting feature, so any 1500W kit should be within your consideration.

As mentioned above you will really wish you had full suspension, front and rear, unless your roads are perfectly smooth.

Just another question.

I have seen a add for Samsung 18650 cells saying 3.6v 3000mah 30A

My maths says 3000ma is 3A

What I was thinking was if I connect 17 of these in series I will get 61.2v at 3A

If I then connect another 17 in parallel I will get 3.6v at 51A

So if I then connect both packs in series I should get 64.8v at 54A?

Am I thinking right or have I got confused over basic electronics?

Amp-hours are about the capacity, or as I like to call it, the range. 3000-mAh is the same as 3-Ah.

The amount of amps that a cell can put out has to do with the power. A Samsung 30Q cell might be rated as 15A continuous, and possibly twice that as a three-second temporary peak (30A).

The number of cells in parallel would determine the Ah's of range, and also the power. 5P would be common, so 5P of 30Q cells would be 3-Ah X 5P = 15-Ah

As far as power, 5P of 30Q would be 15A X 5P = 75A continuous, and possibly 150A as a temporary peak. For safety and pack longevity, I would knock off about 30% to let the cells run without ever getting too hot, sooo...maybe 50A continuous and 100A peak for 5P?

I was looking at 3ah as being 3A for 1 hour or 1A for 3 hours

P(W)=VxA so isn't

3.6x3=10.8W? So doesn't that mean if it theoretically could supply 3A for the whole hour, it would be producing 10.8 W for the hour. I know it can't supply 3A for the whole hour.

Where do you get the 15A from.

Sorry if I am a bit dumb today.

So how many cells would you need to get 60V for 20-25ah?

The 15 amps is how much you can draw from that cell without overheating, theoretically.

Even though 18650-format cells are all the same size (18mm diameter, 65mm long), the amp-hours and also the amps they can produce vary widely. The samsung 30Q is generally regarded as having 3000-mAh of capacity (max amp-hours are achieved at a low amp-draw), and are factory rated at 15A (if you actually draw the full 15A, then you will not get the full 3000-mAh)

The Samsung 22P has less capacity (2200-mAh each) and I think it was about 5A per cell. Of course it costs much less. Same Samsung quality, different performance.

3.7V is the "nominal" voltage, which means the average between when its full and empty. Although they can be charged up to 4.2V, they will last much longer if you only charge them to 4.1V each. When they are low, the controller (and also the BMS) will have a low voltage cutoff (LVC) which protects the cell from being drained down so low that it is damaged.

Hooking cells up in series is how the pack voltage is raised. 16 cells in series (16S) is generally regarded as being a nominal 60V. When fully charged to 4.1V per cell, the pack would be at 65.6V. When it is drained down to 3.3V per cell, then the pack would be at 52.8V.

Panasonic, LG, and Samsung are the biggest 18650 cell producers, and they each have a variety of cell models to choose from, depending on cost, capacity, and power output (amps).

If you want to put 2000W peak into a 1500W-rated hubmotor (a common goal), and you are using a 13S / 48V pack...then, 2000W / 48V = 42A from the pack. The question then becomes, how do I get 42A from a battery pack of 18650 cells.

If you use an expensive 30Q cell that is capable of 15A each, then you could get 45A from a small 3P pack, but that would only provide 9-Ah of range (3P X 3-Ah = 9-Ah).

There are several cells that have a slightly higher capcity, but provide less amps. However, since you want lots of range, you will need at least 5P, so the 35-ish pack amps can be achieved by using cells that can put out at least 7A each. Easily done with affordable cells.

So, you want a pack that is at least 5P (or larger) to get 20-25 Ah of range. The largest capacity cells from the big three are around 3400-mAh, and each run reasonably cool at around 8A.

Using the common 3400-mAh cells, you can get more than enough amps, so the only question left is...how big of a pack can you fit on your ebike? and how much cen you afford. 5P will provide the amps for the motor, but 5P X 3.4-Ah is only 17-Ah. 6P would be 20.4-Ah, and 7P would be 23.8-Ah.

13S X 7P = 91 cells. That is big, heavy, and expensive. I highly recommend it, but I have a beach cruiser with a large frame triangle.

OK, thanks.

So if I connect 17 of these in series I will get 61.2v at 3A right?

If I then connect another 17 in parallel I will get 3.6v at 51A OK?

If I then connect both packs in series that should give me 64.8v at 54A is that correct or have I missed something?

That would be over 3000W?

jimmid said:

I was looking at 3ah as being 3A for 1 hour or 1A for 3 hours

P(W)=VxA so isn't

3.6x3=10.8W? So doesn't that mean if it theoretically could supply 3A for the whole hour, it would be producing 10.8 W for the hour. I know it can't supply 3A for the whole hour.

Where do you get the 15A from.

Sorry if I am a bit dumb today.

So how many cells would you need to get 60V for 20-25ah?

Click to expand...

I’m going to say your math is generally correct, but your assumptions need adjusting.

The three numbers are not connected, except for the fact that they all describe the battery. Technically 30A is a capacity figure representing the maximum current the battery can provide (no time component). 3.6v is simply the voltage of the battery. 3000 mah (or 3 ah) represents the stored energy, but isn’t actual stored energy. It allows you to compare different batteries of the same voltage assuming a certain current output, but to determine the actual stored energy (watts hours) you need to multiply it by the voltage. So for your math, 10.8 is watt hours of stored energy for the call.

The 30 amp figure is useful to determine the maximum current that the pack can supply, which is simply 30 times the number of parallel groups.

The 15 amp figure is an approximation of what the continuous current (not max) that the cell can discharge without damage, since your specs didn’t supply that figure. It’s a valuable figure, to understand how your battery can perform over longer periods, not just the instantaneous peak.


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Hi spinningmagnets
Sorry I asked my question before your last post.

So you say 13 series cells by 7 parallel rows (of 13 cells) would be best.

What about two packs of 17, one in series, one of 17 in parallel, connected in series?

Just to elaborate

If you connect 17 cells in parallel in theory that would supply over 60A max.

If you halved the current even to 1.5A continuously that would give you over 25A which shouldn't stress the cells.

Now if you combined that with a pack of higher voltage but lower amps should not that increase your range?

jimmid said:

Just to elaborate

If you connect 17 cells in parallel in theory that would supply over 60A max.

If you halved the current even to 1.5A continuously that would give you over 25A which shouldn't stress the cells.

Now if you combined that with a pack of higher voltage but lower amps should not that increase your range?

Click to expand...

17 cells in parallel would be 510 amps instantaneous, and 255 amps continuous, if the cells are rated at 30 A max and 15 A continuous.

Fun fact: to draw 510 amps at 3.7 volts, the load would have a resistance of 0.00725 ohms, which is just about equal to the resistance of a meter of 14 gauge copper wire. Shorting the battery pack with that would make a very bright light.

Thanks E-hp

So combining them with a pack of 17 in series.......?

Total voltage & amps or amp hours...?