LED lighting question

Jay64

100 kW
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
1,640
Location
St. Petersburg, Florida
I am trying to modify a incandecent bicycle light with an LED bulb. The LED I am using is salvaged out of another application. When I was taking it apart, I found that the LED was attached to a little plate. That plate was attached to a shallow aluminum bowl. Between the LED plate and the aluminum bowl there was a bunch of white paste sort of stuff. I originally thought I was going to remove the LED and plate from the entire setup and work it into the bicycle light setup. Because of this idea, I wiped off all the white paste to keep it from getting all over everything as I worked. I have since found a way to use the LED/plate, and the aluminum bowl in the new application. Does anyone have any idea what that white stuff was? I notice that the LED gets really hot, was that some sort of heat protection or something?
 
Def sounds like it could have been thermal grease - was it greasy? :D

My guess would be it was there to keep the heat from deforming the metal components over time, but I'm not sure - I may be misunderstanding you.

If you need more, you can buy a tube of it at your local computer store/Fry's electronics/Radioshack(?) for a few dollars
 
Its thermal paste, & its there to transfer the heat away from the LED to heatsink, all high power LED's MUST have a heatsink or the LED 'die' will cook, loose light output & die...for LED lighting its all about 'thermal path' & 'cooling' the LED properly, & you need more cooling than you would think...

have a look @ some of my lights I have made to get a idea of the surface area you need...

http://ktronik.com/LED.html

http://cncdelite.com/

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=227692

K
 
Yeah, it definately was something like that. Definately greasy.
 
I just bought a $8 56 led light off ebay.

Unbelievably bright. Has three light levels, the lowest level with just 18 leds is brighter than my 48 led 110v bulb.

Took three weeks to show up though, so don't be in a rush.

Tonight I am tested how long it will run on three rechargeable AA, I am up to 1.5 hours on 18 led.

I think I can mod it to use this usb 110v adapter so it will use 5v @ 500-1000ma off AC
and someone else had been able to run it off their 48v pack too with such an adapter.
 
The LED I have is a 1 watt light, and is pretty damn bright for only one LED. It runs off a 6v battery. I am thinking of trying to either incorporate the 6v into the build or change the wiring to run it off a larger pack and bring the voltage down with one of those switching adaptors. The original light has one already, so I am going to see if it will run on my 48v pack. If not, I have a lot of other ones that I tested on the pack that do work. I am trying to mount it in a bullet headlight housing. Actually, I already have the bulb and the heatsink mounted up, I just need to figure out a way to hook up the components that went with it. It has a charging port for the battery and a small LED that lets you know when it has a full charge. It is already about 10 times brighter then the two incandecent bulbs that I took out of the bullet housing, so that is cool.
 
1w led is more of a "be seen" than "see the road" type. it will not compare to bicycle halogen setup. if your old halogen setup was mr16 type - there are led mr16s that fit. they work off 12v and provide up to 3w of light. I found those convenient, cheap and easy to use. 2x led 3w mr16 are pretty decent for paved road riding.
 
Well, this light is the brightest light I have seen so far. It is far brighter then the bulbs I am replacing with it. I turned off all the lights in the house and shot the light across the living room and through the bedroom and could clearly see the back wall.
 
I wish I had an easy way to measure how bright my $8 light is to show you, I am very impressed.
I would say it's about equal to a 40 watt house light, or maybe just under that level.

I went through some old cellphone chargers and I think I found a likely candidate to run a 48v pack into - it outputs 5v 1a which should be okay. I had tried it on a usb charger a/c adapter I had but after 5 seconds it started blinking the power which may have meant it was overloaded (it was only rated for 500ma)

This is what it looks like, from afar it looks like a motorcycle headlight or something like that.
bike-light.jpg
 
I recently mounted one of these LEDs on my bike at 3.7Watts. Now i just need to figure out how to reduce the brightness(or make a shield around it) because I think it's blinding drivers.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394

LED, Lense, and Current regulator came out to about 12$.

Had to use AC adapter with 5v 2A output as the first 5V 1A output one kept blinking.
 
LOL, I was worried about the brightness too. I suspect even though they don't put out as *much* light as a car halogen, they are actually brighter in intensity.

Maybe a polarizing filter from car window material?
Just make sure you have it slightly pointed downwards and not perfectly horizontal.

I like how my light has a blink mode, been debating getting a 2nd one and putting a red filter on it for the back, it's so bright there's no way they could ever say they didn't see me - heck you can see in the DAYTIME!

Good tip about the 2A problem, I hope my 1A is enough as I don't think I have a 2A charger I can hack.

The energizer rechargeable AA I use now are 2500mah and they drive the light for two hours, so I am hoping the real draw is closer to 1A
 
needWheels said:
I like how my light has a blink mode, been debating getting a 2nd one and putting a red filter on it for the back, it's so bright there's no way they could ever say they didn't see me - heck you can see in the DAYTIME!

It's a bad idea use a red filter on a white LED, for two reasons:

1) White LEDs are really poor in red light, so there won't be much output left after you filter it.

2) The main reason to use an LED is for power efficiency, and red LEDs are common and cheap. Why make a bunch of light you're just going to throw away with a filter?

For as little as three bucks, you can get a red LED that should be a drop-in replacement for the white one, except brighter! Red-orange Luxeon emitters are among the brightest LEDs in the world on a lumens per watt basis. Here are some from 50 to 190 lumens:
http://www.futureelectronics.com/en...ch|red+orange+luxeon+star|1|,Ny:True,Nea:True

I made a red Luxeon taillight of about 30 lumens for one of my friends. It's dazzling-- easily the brightest bike taillight I've seen, and it shines through a much wider viewing angle than a normal bike light (about 180 degrees). It even casts a conspicuous flood of red light on the ground behind the bike.

The energizer rechargeable AA I use now are 2500mah and they drive the light for two hours, so I am hoping the real draw is closer to 1A

High flux LEDs like you seem to be working with are typically driven at currents between 350mA and 1000mA. White ones need about 3.7V to 4.0V to draw that much current. Red ones draw their rated current at about 3.0V.

If your light uses three AA cells, it's probably driving the LED directly without any current regulation. The nominal 4.5V of AA cells sags under load to a voltage the LED can tolerate. If your light uses any other number of AA cells, then it contains some kind of voltage or current regulating circuitry. That means the current out of the batteries won't be the same as the current into the LED.

Chalo
 
needWheels said:
I wish I had an easy way to measure how bright my $8 light is to show you, I am very impressed.
I would say it's about equal to a 40 watt house light, or maybe just under that level.

Thanks for reporting on these 56 LED lamps needwheels - I was considering one, but unsure about how effective it would be.

I need to light up some dark bike paths and roads at night - do you think 76 LEDs would be stepping over the line e.g. unecessarily bulky, blast drivers off the road, start scrub fires....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Super-Bright-76...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

That would be a big jump up from my 0.5W front lamp!
 
There's a thread around here where people got the 76 led and did a demo but I personally think they are too expensive and too bulky. They mentioned that the clamp doesn't hold on them well and I think it's because of the weight. I put two mini zip-locks on my clamp just to be certain.

Also for the build quality I wouldn't spend more than $8 on this.
I just noticed one of the led's in the outer ring dies out after being on for a minute but the others work fine.

Search for both
"53 led bicycle" and "56 led bicycle" as they are nearly the same item at the same price.

What I would do in your case for pitch black is get TWO 53 led units instead of just one 76 led.
That way you can have more volume, mount one on each side of the handlebars.
Sometimes you email the ebay vendors they will combine shipping so you might be able to get 2 for $14 perhaps?
 
needWheels said:
What I would do in your case for pitch black is get TWO 53 led units instead of just one 76 led.
That way you can have more volume, mount one on each side of the handlebars.
Sometimes you email the ebay vendors they will combine shipping so you might be able to get 2 for $14 perhaps?

Thanks needWheels - yes, I suspected that weight might be a problem. Two lights is a good idea. I've bought 1 x 53 led light for starters, will add another if I need more lumens. I'd better make up my mind soon though, the seller only had 4199 units left :)
 
Without understanding the technical details, I suspect the "catch" with lighting is how far it throws the light, at least that would be important for speed.

I think I would feel safe enough at 20mph with my led light on a paved road. At 25mph, maybe not so much as you can't see far enough ahead at that speed.

Increasing the number of leds doesn't change the "throw" of the light but the overall volume, you can make out not only the narrow path in front of you but quite a bit of what's just to the left and to the right of the path.

I guess I can take a peek on the candlepower forums to see what's the state of the art for "throw" but I suspect it's well out of my price range. They have a whole subforum for bicycles so that's nice:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=85
 
Hey I found a youtube video of someone showing off the 53 led output, watch them cycle through the 3 modes, the last setting you can see it's possible to read by it! The 4th mode is blink so you'll know when it's over:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQuNux3yULA

Oh here's another with something like my 56 led:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k84stjdwiJc

at the end show show the same scene with 100led handheld, and although it shows more of the scene, I don't think it's that much brighter than the 56led in full mode.

Can't find a 3W cree vs 56 led though, oh well.
 
Found this mentioned over on visforvoltage:
http://www.visionxoffroad.com/led/s1100/

Can use a direct feed off a 48v pack and is like a car headlight at 900 lumens.

Trying to find a price but I bet it's insane as their 4" model is $400, so this has to be over $100.
 
If you're into DIY, you can buy the LED's and build your own pretty cheap. The 4-LED shown cost ~$90 less battery.

I've built a 3 LED and 4 LED system. 3 watts per LED at 1000 ma. With the 4 LED light on a country road at night I can see reflective road signs 3/4 mile away. Pretty good for 12 watts. It builds up into an ~ 2" cube.

Something you need to be careful of using the 50+ type lights is how they're wired and what happens if one LED fails. Frequently the cheap lights are made with dirt cheap LED's of possibly dubious origin. Frequently they'll begin to show infant mortality after a few dozen hours. How many LED's go out when one fails depends on circuitry.

The night photo shows the 4-LED system. I don't recall if it's running 100% or 70% of full power, not that you could tell the difference in the photo anyway. The driver has 3 programmable current levels and I use 30% for oncoming traffic. I get about 2-1/2 hours of runtime from a rechargable Li-ion battery.

MT
 

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Well I have a 48 led array that I use as house lighting going on six months now, that's well over a dozen hours.

The 53 led seemed to have one led go out, I tapped my nail on the cover and it instantly came back, hasn't been off since.

Total hours on the 53 led is now 4 or so, hopefully it will have many many dozens more, we'll see.

I'm going to try to come up with a darkness test, can't think of an area to do it yet, everything here is semi-lit at night.
 
Nice light M Tweeker,
I run L2D Q5 2AA flashlights myself, one on the helmet and one on the frame. Still only doing the pedal power at this moment so they are strong enough. In a few months the new Cree XR-G LEDs will come out (132 lumens per watt, 139 lumens at 350mA 345 lumens at 1 amp) I'll take a soldering iron to the Fenix lights and bump them to 270 lumens each and upgrade my Dinotte 200L.
How hot does your light run at 1 amp? What driver do you prefer?
 
I wish we had a better realworld standard than shining lights on walls or theoretical lumens.

Something like a phonebook against a wall, how far back you can read the cover maybe.

When you are moving 20-25mph, seeing something in the road a full second or two ahead of time would be helpful (35 - 75 feet away)
 
@evnewbie:

After about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes of running the heatsink is warm. How warm? If it was bath water I'd typically use warmer, so maybe 90-ish F when the ambient air temp is high 70's low 80's. The LED's are reflow soldered at the factory on to MCPCB stars, which are then thermally conductive epoxied onto the heat sink. The back side of the heat sink is structural epoxied onto the rest of the metal housing. Two of the brass edges are exposed to ambient air. Theoretically, there should be lots of ways for heat to escape. I'm not sure the brass makes a real difference. Only used it because I had a piece. Otherwise, a piece of aluminum could be used and probably not make a noticeable difference.

The driver is an nFlex.

The LED's are CREE XR-E's. I'm too lazy to look up the specs, but I think they were 113 or 123 lumens per watt. I could be tempted when the XR-G's come out, though. I don't really need another light, but it makes a fun project, and mo' power is always a good thing. I would call this one water resistant, but not water proof. That probably would be the next thing to tackle.

Prior to this I was running a pair of over-volted halogen MR11's for 30W total. I ride a lot on country roads at night and was constantly met by oncoming traffic running down the middle of the road or even further over, simply because they could tell by the light that I was beneath their respect.

That does not happen any more. In fact, now they are the ones hugging the edge of the road because they can't figure out what kind of UFO is coming at them. I had been dipping from 100% full current to 70% for oncoming traffic. Then one night my wife was stopped on a side road at an intersection when I rode past. She pulled in behind me and then eventually passed. Later, her somewhat colorful description of what it was like driving in front of a 70% beam convinced me to dip to 30% for traffic.

As a test, one night I held it out the car window and turned the headlights off. Could still drive the car at 40 mph. All from 12 watts of LED light. Pretty cool. It's more than adequate for my 20-25 mph biking speed. Just amazing what's going on in the world of LED's right now.

@ needwheels:

Pros use light meters that read actual beam intensity as a function of degrees from centerline and distance. Nothing theoretical about it. I'm not serious enough about building lights to have equipment like that. A lot also depends on the reflector and how much of the light emitted from the chip is able to be scraped up and sent downrange, so the downrange meter gives a good real-world reading.

In the photo below the squares on the door are ~ 2 foot centers horizontally, and the light is 16 feet from the door. The camera is handheld, and the lack of blurring indicates a reasonably fast shutter speed was used. I didn't want to shoot in the dark because it overemphasizes the brightness of the light. From the other things visible in the photo (no flash) you can tell that although the sun is going down, it's still quite a ways from being dark. In fact, if you look closely you can see the sky reflected in the left rearview mirror just in front of the bag. The headlight really is that bright.

I can tell you that last fall the local bike club took a night ride on a bike trail. At 9PM on a tree-covered trail it was seriously black. I was in the rear. In front of me were about 40 bikes running lights ranging from 'you gotta be kidding' to pretty decent. None matched the output of this 12W system. When the trail was straight, I could see the lead bikes 1/4 mile ahead. People within 100 to 150 feet in front of me pretty much didn't need their own lights except the shadows were tricky. I used 30% most of the time just because it kept the shadows from being so intense and confusing.

MT
 
I wish lowes still had that $10 off $25 coupon.
They are selling the 3 watt cree based taskforce 60x flashlight for $23 now
They use 2 C batteries so it has a regulation circuit too.

A couple of those and we'd be all set.
 
Sirs :

I have 48V, 500W ebike.
I use four 12V , 6 leds array in series
http://www.jiuhongguangdian.com.cn
http://www.jiuhongguangdian.com.cn/athena/picdetail/jiuhongguangdian-1-22518589.html.

Each 6 led array cost me about USD 5 .

These guys sell it in my country :
http://www.ledchile.cl/
http://www.ledchile.cl/Catalogo_Calugas.pdf

Other experiment I have done is feeding led lamp with cell phone chargers.
I connected 48V DC to 220V AC input and in the other side I obtained 4.5 V suitable for lamps that requires 3 1.5 V AA batteries.

Soon some pictures of my ebike.

Regards
Rodrigo
Viña del Mar
Chile
 
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