New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby jbalat » Wed May 10, 2017 6:50 pm

You beat me to it, I was thinking of doing the same thing with the inner tube :)
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Hickory » Fri May 12, 2017 3:08 pm

I'm working on installing this motor and ran into a conflict- the guide for the rear derailleur blocks me sliding the motor into the bottom bracket.
Anyone else run into this issue?
Thanks.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Waynemarlow » Sat May 13, 2017 9:31 am

Yup its got to be removed totally. just fit a full length outer cable in a new route to replace the inner only shifting cable. Most new bikes now have full length internal cables any way, you don't get quite so much crap on the cables with just a tad more weight.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby itchyfoot42 » Sat May 13, 2017 9:55 am

My TSDZ2 kit arrived yesterday, after being tied up in customs for over a month. Next studying what I have and determining the install process. My greatest need is an extension cable from the speed sensor to the controller. lots of other things to resolve. I'm repeating a post I did on Bentrideronline looking for wisdom from this board that I may not receive from the other. Looks like it will be a real adventure as no one locally has even seen a mid-drive.

The kit contained: the motor, with 3 pigtails, the new smaller XH18 LCD controller with cable (cable + motor pigtail = 60"), two crank arms, a speed sensor with magnet and 6" pigtail (pigtail has 6 pin connector), two thin washers, and a tool that fits a silver screw on ring on the motor shaft.

The speed sensor cable apparently has functions beyond speed, and that each of the 6 wires has some function. The combined length of the speed sensor pigtail and the motor pigtail is about a foot. I'll certainly have to obtain, or make, an extension cable. Making a cable will require locating the 6 pin connectors. No idea at this time where they can be found. Alibaba lists an extension cable as an option on their website. Inexpensive, but no details on length, or shipping costs, or even if they will sell it if you don't buy the motor kit from them. Will find out.

The size of the power wires is disconcerting. I can understand tiny wires for the controller & speed sensors (read somewhere they are 22), but the power wires appear to be 16 or 18, and have bullet connectors similar to what you would find in 12 volt wiring for low amp lights or radio. Seem inadequate for a 48V 500W motor.

For wiring, I'm planning on converting all the connecting plugs in the power system to XT60's. I'm negotiating with my LBS to install the system (they only started selling trikes 2 months ago). They have installed a few hub motors but have never seen a mid-drive. I'm in an extreme time crunch as I am a "half time full time" RVer, spend summer months in places cooler than south Florida, and go "on the road again" in 10 days. Will probably just install the motor and battery and use the Wild One as a heavier trike until I can obtain the necessary extension cable for the speed sensor. I think the controller cable will be long enough to work. If not it requires the same extension cable. The WO has a NuVinci hub and a 22-32-42. I'm hoping to be able to add a 30 or 32 ring to the 42 until I can get the E-Assist working and maybe later swap it for a 52 if the E-Assist works as I hope.

Any tribal wisdom is welcomed! Early adopters need all the help they can get.

Thanks.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby DrewSki » Sat May 13, 2017 4:03 pm

itchyfoot, it is really easy to install this motor on a trike yourself. The speed senor cable only has 2 wires in it so it's real easy to extend. I had to fabricate a small collar to keep the motor from rotating and that was it! Install took about an hour, and I had no prior experiance at all. The collar btw was just a strip of thin metal band which I molded around the boom and drilled 2 holes in.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby itchyfoot42 » Sat May 13, 2017 9:54 pm

DrewSki, my speed sensor cable and connectors, and my controller cable and connectors are identical: Connectors are small 6 pin with a small flat edge for positioning. I'm assuming the speed sensor cable also has 6 wires as I have seen a photo identifying the function of each wire. True, only two are needed for the speed sensor. Two others are identified as being used for "reset", and a 5th wire is for a 6V light. I don't understand what the term assigned to the 6th wire means.

I have an old cheap WallyWorld wired bike speedo, but would still have to connect it to the controller if the wire is long enough. I've done a good bit of wire work in the past, but the eyes are probably too old to successfully splice a 6 wire 22 gauge cable. Do you know what the result of not connecting the speed sensor? Any damage to the motor?

Does anyone know the name of the small 6 pin plug being used? Is it Chinese unique, or a standard electronics item? Hopefully it's standard; Google can't help if you don't know what to search for.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby amberwolf » Sun May 14, 2017 2:37 am

Can't tell for sure without a pic, but if it's round it could be Higo (check teh for sale section on ES); if it's black and rectangular it could be JST (check http://ebikes.ca)
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby DrewSki » Sun May 14, 2017 4:31 pm

My speed sensor has been connected by just 2 wires for the past few hundred miles with no ill effect. The other wires are just there for extra features which you may or may not need.
I don't know if the motor will even work or not without connecting the speed sensor (never tried), but I would think it would need to be.
Last edited by DrewSki on Sun May 14, 2017 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby itchyfoot42 » Sun May 14, 2017 9:59 pm

My TSDZ2 kit connectors appear to be the Higo mini A variety, which have disappeared from Google's find capabilities. Mini B type seem to have replaced them. I don't know the difference.

Is there any reason the mini-din connectors like used on IBM PSP keyboards could not be used? Slightly bigger, but readily available, both as connectors, and cables.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby amberwolf » Sun May 14, 2017 10:38 pm

Higo is waterproof and secure holding each other, PS/2 connectors are neither.

I used them for hall connectors for a bit, because they'll fit thru an axle nut, torque arm, etc, but I had problems with both of those issues.

The old AT style (also used on MIDI cables) is a lot more secure, but they're not waterproof even a little. I use them on my trailer connectors for lights, but they only keep working because I unplug and replug them whenever I take the trailer off and put htem back on--without that, they oxidize in the contacts and I end up with flaky connections and lights that don't always work. The unplug/plug scrapes some of that off and lets them work anyway (and it is relatively dry here, with infrequent rains--I am not sure they'd be really usable in a rainy area).


As for buying Higo, did you check the for sale section here on ES as I mentioned previously? They only list the mini-B in the thread there, but if you ask they might have the others, too?
Last edited by amberwolf on Sun May 14, 2017 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Hickory » Sun May 14, 2017 11:49 pm

here is a German company with Higo connectors- https://www.e-bike-technologies.de/inde ... ctors/higo
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Hickory » Mon May 15, 2017 2:39 pm

[quote="Waynemarlow"]Yup its got to be removed totally. just fit a full length outer cable in a new route to replace the inner only shifting cable-
Thank you, although from where I stand that seems a lot easier said than done.
Pretty much scratching my head.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby itchyfoot42 » Mon May 15, 2017 8:24 pm

Hickory, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You. HIGO cable on order. My old eyes would never have been able to splice a cable.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby AF7JA » Tue May 16, 2017 7:20 am

I haven't seen this question so I will throw it out. Will this unit accept any standard five bolt chaining, or is it some odd size?

I ask because I want to replace the front hub motor setup on my commuter. However, it is belt drive and I want to keep the belt.

No matter what, it isn't a hurry. This will be next winters project.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby erupe » Tue May 16, 2017 12:19 pm

I had the same question regarding the BCD for the chainring

Does anyone know if this would work with the lekkie bling ring for the bbs02 or bbshd?
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby mscoot » Wed May 17, 2017 3:06 am

It's a standard 110 bcd. You could even fit two chainrings if you like:
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby niklas_j69 » Wed May 17, 2017 6:06 am

Have posted these guys a question on how they managed to crank it up to: "Rated Voltage 48V, 52V" They're selling it with 14S (52V/58.8V) packs, so something must have been done I assume. From what I've read here 50V/12S is max what the original even starts with.

If they're upgrading the controller I'll definitely consider a purchase :D

https://www.biktrix.com/products/tongsheng-tsdz2-torque-sensored-diy-ebike-mid-motor
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Hickory » Wed May 17, 2017 9:28 am

I just purchased, received and installed the 48v TSDZ2 motor. I will post a full report shortly, but my first impression of the performance is A+.
Powerful, quiet, and excellent torque control operation- seamless with my peddling.
Going out for a more sustained ride today.
Last edited by Hickory on Wed May 17, 2017 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby elektrikflo » Wed May 17, 2017 7:02 pm

Hi, is it possible to change the torque sensitivity of the torque sensor, so you dont have to pedal so hard, with a programming tool?
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Hickory » Wed May 17, 2017 10:50 pm

Hi elektrikflo- I don't know of a way to change the torque programming, but the handlebar controller gives you adjustable 4 levels of assist. Level 3 and 4 can really jack you up a steep hill with ease. For general medium grades, I suspect most people will end up using level 1 or 2 of assist.
Last edited by Hickory on Wed May 17, 2017 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby filtvet » Thu May 18, 2017 2:19 am

I just swapped my TSDZ2 with a bafang bbs02 v2. Cant feel much difference other than the bafang is much quieter under load. Also the bbs02 can output 950w in short moments. In Norway, both motors cost about the same so for me Bafang feels like a better choice.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby mscoot » Thu May 18, 2017 1:13 pm

elektrikflo wrote:Hi, is it possible to change the torque sensitivity of the torque sensor, so you dont have to pedal so hard, with a programming tool?


The torque sensor is really simple. I have nothing to compare it with, so perhaps they all are more or less the same in all torque sensing mid drives. Too me it seems to sense the difference between light pedaling and very light pedaling, sort of. But no difference between hard and very hard. Maybe with some clever programming it could be made to perform differently, but tongsheng seem very reluctant to let anyone but resellers use that programming tool.

Anyway, I recently took out the torque/cadence sensor mechanism when replacing my old worn out one-way bearing. The sensor is fixed with one small screw and sits on tube that surrounds the crank arm axle. It looks to me like it measures the very slight mechanical flex in that tube when you are pushing on the pedals. I thought perhaps it can be tweaked by loosening or tightening that screw and maybe moving it a little? I didn't try, but it would be interesting to know how or if tweaking the sensors positition would change the way it responds.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby MPM » Thu May 18, 2017 5:55 pm

elektrikflo wrote:Hi, is it possible to change the torque sensitivity of the torque sensor, so you dont have to pedal so hard, with a programming tool?

The highest support setting 4 to me feels powerful while I don't pedal hard. How do you use the TSDZ2 that you feel you still have to pedal hard?

Also please note the following:
- Every time you switch on the TSDZ2 the torque sensor gets calibrated. If your feet are on the pedals at the time you switch on, the calibration may end up incorrect and the torque sensor may require higher forces from you for that ride.
- There is a speed limit setting (user configurable) above which the TSDZ2 cuts back its power and also the TSDZ2 can't spin the pedals that fast, maybe 90 rpm or so. As a result, if you end up above either of those limits you're on your own without help from the motor, even in support setting 4.

If that doesn't help and if you want to pedal less or not at all, maybe you could add a throttle. A few earlier posts in this thread discussed adding a throttle to the TSDZ2, and this ad from CNEbikes suggests they offer one:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 56796.html
Having said that, I don't believe I have seen any users confirm that they put a throttle on a TSDZ2 and the ad may be incorrect.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby itchyfoot42 » Thu May 18, 2017 7:56 pm

I believe the throttle is only available with the larger display, which has 3 USB ports. The XH18 controller has no port for a throttle, or at least I haven't found one on mine.

The just announced TDSZ3 specifically says it is designed to require rider effort. Naturally it becomes available I'm having my LBS install my Z2.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Hickory » Fri May 19, 2017 1:13 pm

I purchased a TSDZ2 48v 500W motor and a 48V 14.5Ah Frame Panasonic ebike battery pack from Auto-ebike from china direct - http://www.auto-ebike.com/
First my feedback on the purchase- it took just over 3 weeks to receive both items. They arrived in excellent condition despite poor boxing. No instructions or paperwork. The cost was $70 higher than the checkout (I was informed 3 days later and decided to comply with a request for second payment), due to their website not accurately including the cost for shipping the lithium battery- which is indeed a difficult thing related to fire safety regulations regardless of where you buy the batteries. Overall I believe I got a very good price. So far the products seem excellent.

The installation took me a while, since I haven't done much work on bikes before, and had to get some parts. I needed new handlebars to accommodate the hand controller, a new brake lever, and had to make an electrical connection between the battery and motor since they came with incompatible connectors. All no big deal.

I've done a couple rides now, including a 10 mile rough dirt road ride up a ridge that this 56 yr old body would not have attempted without the motor assist. My bike is a simple Schwinn hybrid with some thicker tires than it originally came with. My initial results are excellent. The torque sensing assist is very good, and this feature is really the only reason I purchased this unit over a Bafang. There is no other cost-effective way to get torque assist on the market, as best as I have been able to find, and I consider it to be the paramount feature of selecting a motor.

The motor is strong, smooth and quiet. The big question mark is durability. We shall see.
With about 20 miles of riding, with considerable hilliness, I have only used 1 of 5 bars of battery power! Impressive. But I do have a beefy battery.

My only issue with the design and install relates to getting the rear derailleur cable to travel under the bottom bracket. There is no longer a gap that can fit the cable guide, so I just removed it and the cable now sits right up against the bracket frame. It works just fine, as it scrapes away at the paint (and aluminum?) along the undersurface. I see no solution to this on my frame.
Attachments
IMG_3533.JPG
The motor
IMG_3568.JPG
During install
IMG_3568.JPG (217.52 KiB) Viewed 780 times
IMG_3578.JPG
Complete
IMG_3584.JPG
On the ridge!
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