New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby tinasdude » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:21 pm

Biktrix version is 15 amp and advertized as 80n.m. of torque.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby eyebyesickle » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:24 pm

tinasdude wrote:Biktrix version is 15 amp and advertized as 80n.m. of torque.


oh... my bad I misunderstood.

I will be able to point you in the right direction soon, but first they are selling out their old stock, before they make real 'power model' versions.

these 48v18a have 90nm... I don't think they have the full 100nm.... and also cutoff at 54.6 =\...

I don't think anyone can get you these until this company makes the next batch.

you can't get that type of thing single unit from the factory, they are afraid to provide support for the unit like that, hence the MOQ order they require =\
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby ScooterMan101 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:39 pm

This is a step in the Right Direction, at least 750 watts, throttle option, and double chainring option,

Add to that the fact that most good bikes being sold in the stores these days are 10 and 11 speed bikes.
there are some 9 speed ones still available, but 8 speed is being phased out , and soon there will be 12 speed cassettes with very wide gear ratio's .

It is very important that they make several ( Optional ) chainrings in 10 speed spacing ( Note with a 10 speed front chainring you can use a 9 speed chain and 9 speed rear cassette, or 10 speed ) ,

10 and 11 Chainrings are also very important because , it you want to go larger than a 34 tooth in the rear, you will need a 10 or 11 speed chain / speed system.

Many of us are considering a Mid-Drive because we want to climb up hills/mountains,

With a 10 or 11 speed front chainring I could get a cassette with 36-40 tooth at the rear for climbing.
and there is even a 50 tooth available for 11 speed systems. Just think of the Mountains you can go up once you can get this little Mid-Drive with that tooth count in the rear.

For the American Market have them include choice of 10 or 11 speed chainrings in tooth counts of 46, 48, 50, 52 .
and
A double chainring version with tooth counts in the 30's on the inner and to 52 on the outer chainring.





eyebyesickle wrote:

honestly I was up tonight trying to work with them so they can offer a 750w 'American version' with the metal gear inside, with headlight wire, etc... they are scared people will complain from the noise... mentioned me handling support... dunno, I don't think so

either way, just wait a bit, your hearing it first on ES - the 750w version is about to hit... :shock: :lol:
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby anttipaa » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:31 am

eyebyesickle wrote:
tinasdude wrote:Biktrix version is 15 amp and advertized as 80n.m. of torque.


oh... my bad I misunderstood.

I will be able to point you in the right direction soon, but first they are selling out their old stock, before they make real 'power model' versions.

these 48v18a have 90nm... I don't think they have the full 100nm.... and also cutoff at 54.6 =\...

I don't think anyone can get you these until this company makes the next batch.

you can't get that type of thing single unit from the factory, they are afraid to provide support for the unit like that, hence the MOQ order they require =\



So no one is selling 14s 58.8v version? That is what I have tried to find. Does it matter is it 15a or 18a? Thats only 3a difference. Does it fit to 68mm BB and 73mm BB? Conhismotor sayd their version fits only 68-72mm not 73mm?? Eyebyesickle when do you think we can buy that new version? Im ok for little waiting. I allready ordered metal gear and 120mm FatBike kit from Futurebikes.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby tinasdude » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:23 am

[quote="ScooterMan101"]This is a step in the Right Direction, at least 750 watts, throttle option, and double chainring option,

Add to that the fact that most good bikes being sold in the stores these days are 10 and 11 speed bikes.
there are some 9 speed ones still available, but 8 speed is being phased out , and soon there will be 12 speed cassettes with very wide gear ratio's .

It is very important that they make several ( Optional ) chainrings in 10 speed spacing ( Note with a 10 speed front chainring you can use a 9 speed chain and 9 speed rear cassette, or 10 speed ) ,

10 and 11 Chainrings are also very important because , it you want to go larger than a 34 tooth in the rear, you will need a 10 or 11 speed chain / speed system.

Many of us are considering a Mid-Drive because we want to climb up hills/mountains,

With a 10 or 11 speed front chainring I could get a cassette with 36-40 tooth at the rear for climbing.
and there is even a 50 tooth available for 11 speed systems. Just think of the Mountains you can go up once you can get this little Mid-Drive with that tooth count in the rear.

For the American Market have them include choice of 10 or 11 speed chainrings in tooth counts of 46, 48, 50, 52 .
and
A double chainring version with tooth counts in the 30's on the inner and to 52 on the outer chainring.





You are right, Most of the good stuff is made for 10 and 11 speed bikes. There are now better cassette options for 8 and 9 speed bikes. 11-40 is available for both of them. 8 speed allows for the most robust chain available. After that they start getting slightly skinnier. Most cheap cassettes are made of steel, which wears better on an electric bike. Freewheels however do not come so tall. The sunrace 13-34 megadrive is a very useful 8 speed freewheel. The the first and second gear progression is not has harsh as the popular Shimano Mega. Since the 11T wears quickly, and consequently wears your chain as well, I think the sunrace is a good choice for those with a freewheel.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby tinasdude » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:45 am

Is the chain line any better with the TSDZ2 than the BBSO2? I recently bought a very old DH bike, to gain the full suspension. Standard 135mm rear dropout. 8 speed 11-32 cassette came with It. This was to be an easy trails and forest roads type bike. Ordered 104 BCD adapter and a 32 race face chain ring, before ever mounting the motor. OMG. Bizarre chain line. Rebuilt the cassette into a 5 speed. Moved the 11, 13, and 15 behind the tallest gears as place holders. So now the 32T was in the 4th gear positon, and had an acceptable chain line. I am hoping the TSDZ2, at minimum, is slightly better. I see a lot of mention of using a 52 gear with this motor. Is there any concern that you will initially not be running enough rpm in this gear, and causing an overheating issue? This type of issue was experience with the BBSO2 prior to replacing the FETS. Sorry about the rambling.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby tinasdude » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:26 am

anttipaa wrote:
eyebyesickle wrote:
tinasdude wrote:Biktrix version is 15 amp and advertized as 80n.m. of torque.


oh... my bad I misunderstood.

I will be able to point you in the right direction soon, but first they are selling out their old stock, before they make real 'power model' versions.

these 48v18a have 90nm... I don't think they have the full 100nm.... and also cutoff at 54.6 =\...

I don't think anyone can get you these until this company makes the next batch.

you can't get that type of thing single unit from the factory, they are afraid to provide support for the unit like that, hence the MOQ order they require =\



So no one is selling 14s 58.8v version? That is what I have tried to find. Does it matter is it 15a or 18a? Thats only 3a difference. Does it fit to 68mm BB and 73mm BB? Conhismotor sayd their version fits only 68-72mm not 73mm?? Eyebyesickle when do you think we can buy that new version? Im ok for little waiting. I allready ordered metal gear and 120mm FatBike kit from Futurebikes.

I THINK THE INCREASE IN AMPS TO 18 IS WHERE THERE INCREASE TORQUE NUMBERS COME FROM. AMPS = TORQUE. THE 60V VERSION ACCOUNTS FOR THE INCREASE IN RPMS .VOLTS = SPEED. SO A 48V 18A MOTOR WLL HAVE THE INCREASED TORQUE, NOT THE HIGHER RPMS
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby RTIII » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:45 am

ScooterMan101 wrote:This is a step in the Right Direction, at least 750 watts, throttle option, and double chainring option,


Watts is volts times amps, so the "15A 48v" system is already 720, and the 18A version crosses the line with 864. Given that a "48v" battery is typically charged to 54.5v or thereabouts, and, at least on my own 13s4p pack, is still typically above 52v (at rest) when 25% to 1/3 depleted, it means you're getting around 795W when pulling peak power out during that first 1/3 of the battery - with the 15A system. ... The only real question is; has anyone the on-board instrumentation to tell us if they ever really get all their rated amps out of their TSDZ2? I suspect not and I suspect this is why we see the 48v 15a version rated at only 500w. I'm sure this is the kind of question that's being addressed with eye's "750W" concept.

Agreed; double chainring is an absolute must! ... Although maybe not for the reasons I first thought. Even though I made a dual chainring adapter and now run the 42T that came with the TSDZ2 along side a (steel) 52T sourced, I haven't had a front derailleur that works because the chainline is pushed out just a few mm too far outboard. So, I can't change front chainrings while riding and left it on the 52T for getting around and so now I have some really good experience under my belt with the TSDZ2 going up serious hills with that 52T. My lowest gear is a 28 and I don't think I've ever needed it, even on the 52T. For most hills I only need the 21T or, very rarely, the 24T - and this because the TSDZ2 really does kick out some power to help on those darned hills! ... Never had to drop to the 42T, not once! ...BUT, the reason I say it's a must is because if the battery goes flat on me, or there's some technical glitch, I'll have to complete my ride with muscle power and for that I'll need that lower front chainring! (I should add, I haven't carried a lot of extra cargo with me on those hills yet. I'm sure I'll need lower gearing at some point. I'm only trying to point out that the need maybe isn't so urgent as at least I - and likely others - had first thought.)

I was going to attempt mounting a new front derailleur today but those plans are sidelined. I have to help a friend get a car running instead.

ScooterMan101 wrote:Add to that the fact that most good bikes being sold in the stores these days are 10 and 11 speed bikes. there are some 9 speed ones still available, but 8 speed is being phased out , and soon there will be 12 speed cassettes with very wide gear ratio's .


I presume this is referring to only how many rear gears there are.

ScooterMan101 wrote:It is very important that they make several ( Optional ) chainrings in 10 speed spacing ( Note with a 10 speed front chainring you can use a 9 speed chain and 9 speed rear cassette, or 10 speed )


In my view the issue is that they pushed the stock 42T so far inboard you can't mount a second chainring to the outside of it or else it will push the inner chainring into the motor assembly. (I think you've seen my ES thread on the subject.) So long as that issue is addressed, and so long as you can mount your own chainrings of whatever you want, I'm not sure why you think this is an issue for Tongsheng?

ScooterMan101 wrote:Many of us are considering a Mid-Drive because we want to climb up hills/mountains


That's perhaps THE KEY reason I got one!

ScooterMan101 wrote:With a 10 or 11 speed front chainring I could get a cassette with 36-40 tooth at the rear for climbing. and there is even a 50 tooth available for 11 speed systems. Just think of the Mountains you can go up once you can get this little Mid-Drive with that tooth count in the rear.


Mountain goat! You could go straight up! :D
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby RTIII » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:00 pm

tinasdude wrote:Is the chain line any better with the TSDZ2 than the BBSO2? I recently bought a very old DH bike, to gain the full suspension. Standard 135mm rear dropout. 8 speed 11-32 cassette came with It. This was to be an easy trails and forest roads type bike. Ordered 104 BCD adapter and a 32 race face chain ring, before ever mounting the motor. OMG. Bizarre chain line. Rebuilt the cassette into a 5 speed. Moved the 11, 13, and 15 behind the tallest gears as place holders. So now the 32T was in the 4th gear positon, and had an acceptable chain line. I am hoping the TSDZ2, at minimum, is slightly better. I see a lot of mention of using a 52 gear with this motor. Is there any concern that you will initially not be running enough rpm in this gear, and causing an overheating issue? This type of issue was experience with the BBSO2 prior to replacing the FETS. Sorry about the rambling.



I address this in some detail on this other ES thread, starting around June 26, 2017 - find it here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88711

(This is just past 1/2 way down the first page of the thread - just scroll until you see pictures and that'll do it!)

BTW, since you ask, the issue with these units isn't overheating but rather wiping out the "blue gear" - a nylon reduction gear. And yes, it gets wiped out when people run them at too low of an RPM with too much torque being transmitted.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby ScooterMan101 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:09 pm

Yes, when I speak of 10 and 11 speed bikes , I mean the rear cassette,

Over the last few years bike Mfg's have gotten rid of the third chainring on the front, so they have gone to 10 and 11 speed cassettes,
Now
The Mfg's are even getting rid of the second chainring and going with one chainring up front, so we will be seeing 12 speed cassettes more and more.
( one chainring on the front also gives room on the Handle bar for a Dropper post, Dropper Posts will be on more and more bikes in the next year and beyond , like 2018 year models that will be out in the next few months. )

A year or so ago you could only get up to 36 tooth on a 9 speed up to 34 tooth was most common , , but more important 38 and 40 tooth gears were only on 10 and 11 speed cassettes, and with such high count rear gears you need rear derailleurs that can handle that big rear gear, tinasdude , is stating that now there are bigger gear cassettes available for 9 and 8 speed cassettes/chains.

Good news, but remember to change to a rear derailleur that can handle that.
I have two new 9 speed rear derailleurs sitting in their boxes just waiting for my next build,
However
One of them I bought about 5- 6 years ago, can only handle up to 32 rear tooth cog.
and
The other can only handle up to 34 rear tooth cog.
A Longer B screw might help a little, but only for a couple teeth larger.

Tinasdude, do you have some links to the 8 and 9 speed cassettes that go up to 40 teeth ?
and
Link to what rear derailleur that can handle such big cogs ?
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby tinasdude » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:20 pm

http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csm680 8 speed 11-40. http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csm980 9 speed. I have mounted the 9 speed on a build I will be doing. The fork is being rebuilt. Chain line would be an issue. 135 mm rear dropout. 42 lekkie purchased for BBSO2. With the 11-40. I hope to be able to use 2nd gear (34) Or at worst the 3rd gear (28). The long cage drailleur should handle it, since I won't be using the 40. As long as there is nothing steep that might be OK. If it isn't enough. rebuild the cassette. If I rebuild the cassette, and use the 40T and 40C, a derailleur solution would have to be obtained. It is a 2008 long cage derailleur. Doubt if it will step up, even with a longer B screw. Or use a 104 BCD adapter, a lower crank gear, and a rebuilt cassette. I read about the TSDZ2 and thought this may be perfect for a woods bike. Not going to buy any more BBSO2 parts are do any more mods until I get this motor. I have an old 100 buck DH bike that the BBSO2 is in. Rebuilt cassette and 32T crank. May finish that build, and wait on the Tonsheng for the other used 9 speed down hill bike. Both are older bikes. not going downhill or even hitting anything hard. Just some cush for a senior citizen.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby eyebyesickle » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:38 pm

RTIII - yeah I got watt meters and battmans and cycle analyst. I don't do the comprehensive stuff, I just make sure it is what its supposed to be, mostly. 18a model is 17a +\- by programming

15a model is 13a +\- by programming, so take that into consideration when you run your numbers. Basically balances the max 48v (54.6v) evening it out for even math like 48v X 15a = 720.... or at full voltage and true amperage - 54.6v X 13a = 709.8 s buuuut they rate it a bit lower.

So basically, you also have the fact that to get a real 48v18a with the controller, you cannot get it single unit from TS, they think that's too much power for current setup. They are scared to market metal gear because of the noise. I think perhaps some people will find, if they open their new loud units, that they may have the metal gear already installed, and that is the difference. Perhaps this is why now we are hearing that they are scared to market it. THEY ALREADY ARE, and are getting negative feedback, hahahahahaha.

Totally a guess there, but sounds good, eh? Be careful reading my posts, some is informative, some is just messing around. A fine line on a forum like this, eh? Info, Disinfo, Bad info, Foolery, a little of everything...

Anyway - just like with the BBS series... do the math on them. So, that is why they are rated for 500w continuous, it basically is, if you watch it, and you are pushing it. Without the throttle, it is also pretty hard to get the motor to kick in full, IMO. Especially without the 52... It is designed like that for a reason... these guys thought of a lot, just like with everything, they had the molds set before they realized a couple small design flaws haahhaahahah.

Anyway, maybe that will clear up the new 750w thing. The 750w thing, is ACTUALLY 18a controllers inside the motors. Open them up people, and tell me you have a 18a even if the motor is labeled 4000rpm 18a, doesn't mean the controller is. Is all I was saying. It happened to me... and I got to the bottom of the situation.... To my knowledge, there is only a couple places getting the 18a.... FUTUREBIKE, who I think I actually told about it, or he was just getting them (hard to tell with language barrier),. and then me and the company I am working with.... You can bet others will be very soon, however - good for the market - if they don't gouge - COUGH ALREADY HAPPENING

Now, for the 52v thing... it is not good for these little controllers. Some are getting made soon (when stock is out), due to popular demand, but that is it. ALSO, even though 1p is minimal weight, I still think it is almost useless, and believe me I want more power... 90-100rpm may very well be from voltage, but after 25MPH, with these units, it simply is pretty much a wall (on a bike, don't know about a trike, etc) too much wind resistance. You can push 30 with a rig built for speed, for sure, but these are not BBS, lets be clear....

I personally would not fret about the 52, other than all my batteries already being 52v, that is the only reason, IMO. Still, a lot of these cases out, were made for 48v, and the batteries are a lot more secure in their plastic holders, then when they are removed and glued for the 52v to fit into these hard shark packs etc.... so there is a lot of reasons I still like the 48v packs...

ALSO, the 48v packs are at an ALL TIME LOW, considering the market wants the 52v, SO.... the consumer is able to really get a good deal for the TSDZ2/48v14ah shark pack combo, for like $750-800..... maaaaaan, that is a whole new level for the mid drive game, IMO.

Hard to get into the BBS game, with a battery, for under $1000 (not possible for HD, IMO, unless tiny battery), and if you don't need it, this is a GREAT ALTERNATIVE with a torque sensor.

Man, I LOVE where the ebike market is going. How were these little things hiding for so long?

A bunch of bad stuff coming in, and people scared to try new things... including myself. Honestly... I dunno... I talk too much. Hahahah
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby tinasdude » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:43 pm

I have the same issue. I already have 52v batterys. Dont want to invest in 48v. Have several 14S2p 30Q and a 14S4P dolphin. Really woul like to see the TSDZ2 52V. Keep the Nylon gear. I won't be pushing it hard anyway. Have a BBSHD for speed and power. A 52v 15 amp may not be that bad.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby eyebyesickle » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:26 pm

tinasdude wrote:I have the same issue. I already have 52v batterys. Dont want to invest in 48v. Have several 14S2p 30Q and a 14S4P dolphin. Really woul like to see the TSDZ2 52V. Keep the Nylon gear. I won't be pushing it hard anyway. Have a BBSHD for speed and power. A 52v 15 amp may not be that bad.


yeah, that's what I would go for, for sure, if you have a 52v, and already have a bbshd for power... get the variable 48v version for sure
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Waynemarlow » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:15 am

Guys you are wetting yourselves over nothing. The TDSZ engine is a small engine designed for pedal assisted cycling, its designed to limit itself to 500W to save weight in components and form size. Don't try and create something its not designed for and then whine you can't you use 52 volt battery because you want more speed or that you are damaging the gears. It is what it is, a pedal assist 500W engine that is actually very good at what its designed to do.

Bafung went down the route of allowing users to set their own ratings and paid the price of components being damaged and thus gaining a bit of a reputation that their engines weren't up to the job, internet activities always detail the horrors, never the good side of things and anything that has a sniff of a defect will go viral pretty quickly, even if that defect was caused by users setting parameters outside of the design brief. Bafung have sold over 4 million mid mount engines over the years, mainly to the Asian markets, our own western markets are way behind the curve , but in true Chinese fashion (and they had the volumes), they corrected the Mosfet fault in the BBS01 and 02 and sold over a million more of these pretty rock solid engines. With the typical thirst of more and more power of the western markets they then created the HD, by all reports its absolutely bullet proof,my betting is that they have over engineered it to make sure they don't have the problems of the early 02's.

But and here is the big but. To get that reliability it weighs about 2kgs more and is nearly twice the size of the TDSZ2. Ask yourself if probably the largest manufacturer of mid engines in the world, with the most up to date knowledge and millions of miles of actual testing, has to go to that size and weight, how do we expect the TDSZ2 to be able to do the same. Anything that concerns mass and number of components, costs the companies bottom line, Bafung built the HD in the manner it did for good reason.

The other thing that irritates me somewhat is that you are all about upping the TDSZ2 output , so that you can get to the magic 30mph. Sorry guys but just do a little research on the internet and find out just how many watts you need to achieve this on a mainly poor quality and non aerodynamic bike on typically large footprint tyres. Yup its way beyond the TDSZ's even theoretical 52 v limits. What some of you need to do is fit the TDZ2, get your heads out of the computer and go and ride it, you will be pleasantly surprised how good it is, if you consider what the design was, that of a pedal assisted 500W torque sensitive after market add on.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby eyebyesickle » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:09 am

It actually irritates you?... Thicken up that skin.

Some of whats you are saying makes sense... but you are telling people to do some research, then to just get out and ride... Which in itself is contradictory, not to mention, it sounds like you have not tried a stronger model yourself... Some issues are already being addressed.... People do learn, moving forward.

To each their own, no reason to slam others. Calm down there buddy, hahaha no stress over a few watts
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Waynemarlow » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:47 am

eyebyesickle wrote:It actually irritates you?... Thicken up that skin.

Some of whats you are saying makes sense... but you are telling people to do some research, then to just get out and ride... Which in itself is contradictory, not to mention, it sounds like you have not tried a stronger model yourself... Some issues are already being addressed.... People do learn, moving forward.

To each their own, no reason to slam others. Calm down there buddy, hahaha no stress over a few watts


Nothing contradictory about it, if people get out and ride the TDSZ2 they will quickly realise that all that computer time and keyboard stokes is probably a bit of a waste of time. I always try things in the manufacturers basic form first and then look at refinement. All to often computer predictions are not realised and often designers have a take on things that maybe are different, but gets to the same point as your own desires.

Take the gearing. 42T on the front will give about 28mph flat chat on a 11T rear on a 27.5 inch wheel. Now to get anything faster you will need to exponentially put in amounts of power that require larger batteries and will almost certainly need gearing changes. That extra power is outside of the TDSZ2's engines mechanical design and components will fail. Also proportionally the amount you as a human can put in which is about 200W is tiny in comparison to the 1200W you will need to maintain over 30mph. If you up the TDSZ2 to get that level of power then that negates the need for a torque sensitive crank. If you want those sort of speeds then simply buy a Bafung HD and be done with, it doesn't have torque sensitivity but with good programming to suit your riding style, can be a good option and most importantly will be reliable at that wattage.

Equally consider that most steep hills off road are up single track. Going slow is the norm because of the difficulty, not in pedaling, but in technical difficulty. Trust me on this' but the 500W version with 40T rear on the standard 42T front will climb anything you wish at a relatively slow speed. Forget your adaptors, all they will do is put the wrong offset on the chain line and you will need to alter the rear cassette spacing to prevent an already bad offset becoming even worse.

Guys do you research as to what you really want an Ebike to do, if you want high speeds then the Bafung or wheel hub setups are the way to go, if you want to get cycling enjoyment from fitness and need to keep the bike as light and compact as you can, then the TDSZ2 or similar is probably what you need.

Buy all means refine the TDSZ2 but ride it first, some of you are going down a path which really doesn't suit this engine and will inevitably end up in squeals and internet opprobrium when the unit doesn't achieve the lofty goals. Far better to simply buy a more appropriate engine in the first instance.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby tinasdude » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:05 am

Have done my research. This a light weight, inexpensive, torque sensing mid drive. it will be an off road pleasure ride for an old man on a FS bike. I have no illusions of speed with this motor. I want to check out the bionic leg feeling of torque sensing, and this is a good price point to try it. I have a ludicrous BBSHD for power and speed. if I want to go fast I will get an ERT 72V kit for the BBSHD and go 50 mph. It is all about torque sensing, not speed. PAS is crap. Does not feel natural. A lot of controller fine tuning to get it close to natural feeling. And then all it is, close, and nothing more. A 52V 17 amp torque sensing motor is 999 watts. That is plenty for an easy single track and trails bike. just ordered 52v 17 amp motor. As much as my BBSHD fat bike makes me smile, I think a torque sensing bike with 7" of FS will make me smile even more. Not getting a throttle, so it will give me a better work out. Too easy to cheat on throttle with the BBSHD. I think more people are getting this motor for the right reasons than you realise. They aren't posting much?
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby leelorr » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:18 am

Tinasdude,

Where did you order your 17A, 52 volt version?

Thanks,
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Waynemarlow » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:30 am

tinasdude wrote:Have done my research. This a light weight, inexpensive, torque sensing mid drive. it will be an off road pleasure ride for an old man on a FS bike. I have no illusions of speed with this motor. I want to check out the bionic leg feeling of torque sensing, and this is a good price point to try it. I have a ludicrous BBSHD for power and speed. if I want to go fast I will get an ERT 72V kit for the BBSHD and go 50 mph. It is all about torque sensing, not speed. PAS is crap. Does not feel natural. A lot of controller fine tuning to get it close to natural feeling. And then all it is, close, and nothing more. A 52V 17 amp torque sensing motor is 999 watts. That is plenty for an easy single track and trails bike. just ordered 52v 17 amp motor. As much as my BBSHD fat bike makes me smile, I think a torque sensing bike with 7" of FS will make me smile even more. Not getting a throttle, so it will give me a better work out. Too easy to cheat on throttle with the BBSHD. I think more people are getting this motor for the right reasons than you realise. They aren't posting much?


You won't be disappointed, mine is on a Yeti 575 being used in mainly steep single track, it does what it says on the tin. I too have a worked on 52 volt BBS02 on a Scott Spark for those silly moments of wanting a lot more speed. You certainly do not need a throttle as the torque sensing + small power control buttons beside your thumb is good enough.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby tinasdude » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:42 am

leelorr wrote:Tinasdude,

Where did you order your 17A, 52 volt version?

Thanks,
Leelorr

When I receive it and confirm that it is 52v, I will share. I don not want to spread false hope. lol. I don't care if its 15A as long as I can use my 52V battery.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby tinasdude » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:49 am

leelorr wrote:Tinasdude,

Where did you order your 17A, 52 volt version?

Thanks,
Leelorr

Tried to PM you. Got a message you don't exist. Check your pulse. lol
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Marin » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:21 pm

A lot of flap and opinions about this, I have 2 of these coming and very excited to try. I have a couple hubs a bbs02 and a bbshd coming, these are all suitable for different conditions in my opinion. Hubs are fun but too fast and no real exercise, I can't hold back with the throttle, no self control, bbs02 is awesome but still to easy to ghost pedal. I'm doing a fat bbshd build for dumb off road fun.

I think these tsdz2 will be the perfect stock ride, no ebrakes, no throttle and the need to actually pedal it. I build for fun and for people I know, mostly old people that aren't ready to give it up just yet, and have a bit of money to spend. We live in a very hilly area so the mid is the perfect choice and just enough power you can get home and enough speed to enjoy the scenery. Light and easy is key here.

I also have all 52v batteries but for these I'll be going 48v,

One of the tsdz2 coming is going on a Marin FS mountain bike, the other I need to find a nice used women's bike for a client,

will post results when these arrive, thanks to eyebike
Marin ex-rental hybrid with 48v bionx...sold
Specialized hardrock with magic pie 4-5
Lunacycle with l/r mid drive coming soon
Kona Caldera with QS 30H (maybe), and phase runner
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Patoruzu » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:59 pm

UPDATE on my motor:

I rechecked the external sticker and it reads 48v, 18a, 4000rpm.
I have not opened it to check more, not voiding my warranty yet 8)

My amp/watt meter, throttle and 52T are on the way, hope to make consumption tests soon. I want to find out the optimal cruise mode and autonomy under different loads (on multiday trips I may carry 70KG++ in addition to bike, motor, battery and myself, without counting towing my gf :mrgreen: ). Speed/Acceleration is not my concern. I can sustain 35km/h with no load and minimal effort. Beyond that, wind starts playing too much into the equation. I am ordering a couple of tubeless new tires for my tests and trips on mixed surfaces. Goals are maximizing autonomy, comfort, minimizing flats and support > 90kg per wheel; so low rolling resistance on asphalt, not too thin and good protection:
Marathon Almotion HS 453 (40-622 or 50-622)
https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tire ... n_Almotion

And I finally discovered how to make the 6km option work with the XH18. Hold the display wheel down (-) for three seconds and the motor kicks in at a fixed rpm. With the 42T and my gears and can regulate the speed between 4km/h and 10km/h. Of course, first enable it in the setting menu (PWR/Info buttons simultaneously). It might be a good way to slowly start getting the bike moving without applying too much torque (ie: at a traffic light)
Last edited by Patoruzu on Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Postby Grizzly » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:32 pm

Patoruzu,

Are you using a fully charged 52v battery?
Last edited by Grizzly on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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