New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
echew   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 44
Joined: May 19 2018 8:56pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by echew » May 22 2018 3:04pm

casainho wrote:
May 22 2018 10:31am
Finally got it!! TSDZ2 motor controller is now sending the motor current to LCD :-)
Have been watching all this with interest and, excuse my ignorance, but what is so good about the LCD you are trying to get to work?

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2659
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 22 2018 5:10pm

echew wrote:
May 22 2018 3:04pm
casainho wrote:
May 22 2018 10:31am
Finally got it!! TSDZ2 motor controller is now sending the motor current to LCD :-)
Have been watching all this with interest and, excuse my ignorance, but what is so good about the LCD you are trying to get to work?
The KT LCD3 shows information that original TSDZ2 can't show, like battery voltage, motor usage power, etc. It is also cheaper. Also it is also easy to develop the firmware for it, so it is like a blank sheet of paper that we can program from scratch with our algorithms and showing and have input of information we want.
KT LCD3 is also very popular and easily found on every online shop. For instance, PSWPower sells TSDZ2 kits, Bafang kits and KT kits.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

echew   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 44
Joined: May 19 2018 8:56pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by echew » May 22 2018 6:16pm

casainho wrote:
May 22 2018 5:10pm
The KT LCD3 shows information that original TSDZ2 can't show, like battery voltage, motor usage power, etc. It is also cheaper. Also it is also easy to develop the firmware for it, so it is like a blank sheet of paper that we can program from scratch with our algorithms and showing and have input of information we want.
KT LCD3 is also very popular and easily found on every online shop. For instance, PSWPower sells TSDZ2 kits, Bafang kits and KT kits.
Cool! That sounds promising then that you've got so far with the project - congrats!

jur   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 34
Joined: Apr 07 2017 1:07am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jur » May 22 2018 10:44pm

Great work, casainho!! :mrgreen: Congratulations also on being able to hack the TSDZ2 controller code - that is a great step!

Regarding the LCD3 display, the XH18 is actually much more versatile - it is a complete blank slate, no predetermined fields that you have to use. You have a high-res color LCD screen with which you can do anything at all, in choosing what to display and where. You could have 16 assist levels if you wanted (and assuming the controller could handle that). You could have a variety of power, current and battery parameters displayed all at once. In any color you want. Heck you could play space invaders while you ride!

I am bogged down in other stuff and am not able to do much at this stage.

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2659
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 22 2018 11:59pm

jur wrote:
May 22 2018 10:44pm
Great work, casainho!! :mrgreen: Congratulations also on being able to hack the TSDZ2 controller code - that is a great step!

Regarding the LCD3 display, the XH18 is actually much more versatile - it is a complete blank slate, no predetermined fields that you have to use. You have a high-res color LCD screen with which you can do anything at all, in choosing what to display and where. You could have 16 assist levels if you wanted (and assuming the controller could handle that). You could have a variety of power, current and battery parameters displayed all at once. In any color you want. Heck you could play space invaders while you ride!

I am bogged down in other stuff and am not able to do much at this stage.
Ideally, I would do for VLCD5, because I prefer the form factor. For instance, someone wrote the XH18 does not fit on some handle bar.
Also I don't own a XH18 and so I assume it can't be programmed just like VLCD5!
Also, I am also developing firmware for KT motor controllers and so firmware for KT LCD3 was something I would like to do before and I knew already this LCD can be programmed as it is use just the same microcontroller as TSDZ2 and KT motor controllers, so are just the same cheap tools to program it.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2659
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 23 2018 12:21pm

Assist level now works. I wanted to show the brake symbol on LCD but turns out that TSDZ2 motor control don't send the brake state to LCD :-( -- yes, I am using brakes and I really can't live with brakes connected.

0 assist level is the same as motor turned off.

NOTE: the values shown on LCD are twice of the real value due to a small mistake I did on the code.

Last edited by casainho on May 23 2018 1:10pm, edited 1 time in total.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2659
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 23 2018 1:09pm

I did some quick tests on an accentuated climb.
Assist level 1: max around 6 amps
Assist level 2: max around 12 amps
Assist level 3: max around 18.4 amps
Assist level 4: max around 18.4 amps

Maybe the difference between 3 and 4 is speed limit and not current limit.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

User avatar
eyebyesickle   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 593
Joined: Apr 07 2015 9:28pm
Location: Nashville

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » May 23 2018 1:18pm

casainho wrote:
May 23 2018 1:09pm
I did some quick tests on an accentuated climb.
Assist level 1: max around 6 amps
Assist level 2: max around 12 amps
Assist level 3: max around 18.4 amps
Assist level 4: max around 18.4 amps

Maybe the difference between 3 and 4 is speed limit and not current limit.
Nice,

I think the difference between 3 and 4 is torque sensitivity, where you have to push harder on 3 for the full 18amps, but you don't have to push as hard on assist level 4 for the 18 amps
www.eco-ebike.com - USA Stock + Support
www.recycles-ebike.com - Manufacturer/Direct w/ USA Support

m3lonbr3ad   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 23
Joined: Apr 01 2017 9:57pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by m3lonbr3ad » May 23 2018 1:41pm

eyebyesickle wrote:
May 23 2018 1:18pm
casainho wrote:
May 23 2018 1:09pm
I did some quick tests on an accentuated climb.
Assist level 1: max around 6 amps
Assist level 2: max around 12 amps
Assist level 3: max around 18.4 amps
Assist level 4: max around 18.4 amps

Maybe the difference between 3 and 4 is speed limit and not current limit.
Nice,

I think the difference between 3 and 4 is torque sensitivity, where you have to push harder on 3 for the full 18amps, but you don't have to push as hard on assist level 4 for the 18 amps
My experience agrees with this.

echew   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 44
Joined: May 19 2018 8:56pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by echew » May 23 2018 3:14pm

@casainho - are you able to completely remove the speed restriction on the TSDZ2 with your firmware?

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2659
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 23 2018 4:24pm

echew wrote:
May 23 2018 3:14pm
@casainho - are you able to completely remove the speed restriction on the TSDZ2 with your firmware?
Only on the develop firmware. I am afraid the motor is running near the hardware limited speed that is around the 520 ERPM that should be near the motor 4000RPMs.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

echew   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 44
Joined: May 19 2018 8:56pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by echew » May 23 2018 4:44pm

Ah ok, so the built-in 'unrestricted' mode that comes with the stock firmware is as good as we're going to get realistically?

User avatar
jbalat   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 521
Joined: Nov 10 2012 11:50pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » May 23 2018 6:46pm

I have the 36v 15A version..
Is it possible to get it to 18 or 20 Amps ?
Can we also increase the cadence or is this a limitation of the windings on the motor ?
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=150

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2659
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 24 2018 3:28am

jbalat wrote:
May 23 2018 6:46pm
I have the 36v 15A version..
Is it possible to get it to 18 or 20 Amps ?
Can we also increase the cadence or is this a limitation of the windings on the motor ?
Hi jbalat. Thank you for your videos on youtube about TSDZ2!

So, to resume:
Assist level 1: max around 6 amps
Assist level 2: max around 12 amps
Assist level 3: max around 18.4 amps
Assist level 4: max around 18.4 amps
On my EEPROM, I have the following values:
Image

I think it is the 0x11 value, which 0x11 in decinal is 17, so 17 amps. I did read 18 amps but the things are not perfect so some were there may be an offset/error. You can try decrease/increase that 3rd byte on EEPROM and test.

I put the firmware of my 48V and 36V motors (firmware is just equal), eeprom and options bytes files. Just in case we need. You just need to play with the EEPROM file as it is were that option is saved.

Here the firmware files:
https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... r_firmware
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

sysrq   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 47
Joined: May 07 2018 6:05pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » May 24 2018 5:38am

John and Cecil wrote:
May 18 2018 1:13pm
Oh yes I see your problem :( No way to move that motor closer short of grinding off some of the motor housing, and even that may only yield a small amount. Maybe a custom cassette like a 6 speed moved all the way out away from the hub?
Had to use some 3mm spacers on a threaded hub in order to improove the chainline a bit. Will see how long it will take to strip the threads while riding on hills.

matte2k   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 21
Joined: Oct 28 2015 8:00am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by matte2k » May 24 2018 4:17pm

Today I started to hear a noise from the motor.
What could have happened?
Only driven it for around 500km.

https://youtu.be/zp20hXgJNKk

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2659
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 24 2018 4:23pm

matte2k wrote:
May 24 2018 4:17pm
Today I started to hear a noise from the motor.
What could have happened?
Only driven it for around 500km.

https://youtu.be/zp20hXgJNKk
The nyon blue gear is start to failing, at least I got that sound when my failed. Open the motor and inspect the blue gear and see if you spot the teeth with some different shape.

I moved to metal gear and also installed the brake sensors -- I am very happy now :-)
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

echew   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 44
Joined: May 19 2018 8:56pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by echew » May 24 2018 4:35pm

Does anyone have a list of suggested 'prerequisites' for fitting the TSDZ2?

I have a 3 week wait until my motor/battery arrives and would like to have everything else ready so I can hit the floor running (cycling).

For example, my own list so far:

  1. Donor bike (with bottom bracket removed - required 8mm tool + external bearing bottom bracket tool for my Shimano hollotech)
  2. Strong lock (or two)
  3. Metal gear (optional - to replace weaker blue gear if/when it breaks)
  4. Wide ratio rear cassette (optional - you could also get a dual 42/52 chainring for the front instead)
  5. Stronger chain (optional - as the motor puts increased strain on the chain. E.g. KMC X9e)
  6. Bike trailer (optional)

I've read comments about people changing the stock 42T chainring for a different size and/or ordering different spiders.

How can I calculate the optimum chainring ratio for my bike so that I can order this in advance?

Cheers

Edit: Thanks to the people below - I've added in their suggestions to the list :-)
Last edited by echew on May 24 2018 9:38pm, edited 9 times in total.

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2659
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 24 2018 4:37pm

echew wrote:
May 24 2018 4:35pm
Does anyone have a list of suggested 'prerequisites' for fitting the TSDZ2?

I have a 3 week wait until my motor/battery arrives and would like to have everything else ready so I can hit the floor running (cycling).

For example, my own list so far:

- Donor bike (with bottom bracket removed)
- Strong lock (or two)
- Bike trailer

I've read comments about people changing the stock 42T chainring for a different size and/or ordering different spiders.

How can I calculate the optimum chainring ratio for my bike so that I can order this in advance?

Cheers
Get the metal gear as nylon bkue gear may fail almost immediately.
Instal brake sensors.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

echew   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 44
Joined: May 19 2018 8:56pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by echew » May 24 2018 4:39pm

casainho wrote:
May 24 2018 4:37pm
Get the metal gear as nylon bkue gear may fail almost immediately.
Instal brake sensors.
Cool thanks Casainho, have added that to the list.

What exactly are the brake sensors? My kit from recycles-ebike.com seems to come with some brake levers - is this what you mean?

See kit: http://recycles-ebike.com/tongsheng-tsd ... brake.html

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2659
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 24 2018 4:46pm

echew wrote:
May 24 2018 4:39pm
casainho wrote:
May 24 2018 4:37pm
Get the metal gear as nylon bkue gear may fail almost immediately.
Instal brake sensors.
Cool thanks Casainho, have added that to the list.

What exactly are the brake sensors? My kit from recycles-ebike.com seems to come with some brake levers - is this what you mean?

See kit: http://recycles-ebike.com/tongsheng-tsd ... brake.html
Yes, that's it.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Speady   10 W

10 W
Posts: 74
Joined: Nov 17 2015 10:45am
Location: an island, surrounded by water, big water,

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Speady » May 24 2018 5:18pm

echew wrote:
May 24 2018 4:35pm
Does anyone have a list of suggested 'prerequisites' for fitting the TSDZ2?
Without knowing anything about your donor bike I recommend:

-a single right side Bafang crankarm to fix the huge offset
-a dedicated e-bike chain like KMC X9e or similar
-a wide ratio cassette as you will have just a single front chainwheel then
-lots of brake pads and bigger disks as you will ride longer, faster and more often, with a heavier bike
-shrink tube, plastic wrap and zip ties
-if you go for brake switches, get those 2-pin
-a main gear as it will fail sooner or later

Regarding the speed limit you can set MAGNETS 10 in the hidden menue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlMZTA36elQ
Last edited by Speady on May 24 2018 6:44pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
John and Cecil   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 473
Joined: Mar 14 2018 7:26pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » May 24 2018 6:38pm

echew wrote:
May 24 2018 4:35pm
I've read comments about people changing the stock 42T chainring for a different size and/or ordering different spiders.

How can I calculate the optimum chainring ratio for my bike so that I can order this in advance?

Cheers
I recently went from a 42t to a 34t chainring. I hated it... Not only was it worse for the chainline, but it made the gears too close together. The only bonus was it was better at climbing steep hills. I have since switched back to the stock 42t offset chainring and in the future I am going to order a wider ratio rear cassette to give some added hill climbing power.

This site is very helpful with calculating gearing:

http://www.bikecalc.com/gear_speed

Just plug in your tire size and width, chainring size, cassette smallest and largest cog, and cadence to calculate (90 would be top motor speed). I don't know how fast you ride but with Cecil on the back I can only get up to about 25mph even though I have another gear that will go 30mph. Going down hill and pedaling above the 90 cadence I can get that 30mph gear(@90) up to about 45mph. I kind of like the setup we have now (27.5 x 2.8 tires with 42t front and 11-34 rear) only I am going to swap out the rear for an 11-40 for a lower hill climbing gear. After I do 8th gear will be downhill only and 1st will be steep uphill only, and I will mostly use 2-6/7 for flat riding. Considering the power of the motor I find that I like my gears more spread out, and a standard rear cassette with a small chainring caused me to make too many shifts too quickly and I had to rip it off... :)

echew   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 44
Joined: May 19 2018 8:56pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by echew » May 24 2018 7:25pm

@Speady - Awesome info - thanks!
Speady wrote:
May 24 2018 5:18pm
Without knowing anything about your donor bike I recommend:

-a single right side Bafang crankarm to fix the huge offset - I was unaware of an offset issue, is this something a lot of people have experienced?
-a dedicated e-bike chain like KMC X9e or similar - Yes, I was intending to get a stronger chain - good idea!
-a wide ratio cassette as you will have just a single front chainwheel then - Ah, didn't think of this either, good point
-lots of brake pads and bigger disks as you will ride longer, faster and more often, with a heavier bike
-shrink tube, plastic wrap and zip ties - What is the plastic wrap for? You mean like gladwrap??
-if you go for brake switches, get those 2-pin
-a main gear as it will fail sooner or later

Regarding the speed limit you can set MAGNETS 10 in the hidden menue. - Great tip, thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlMZTA36elQ

echew   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 44
Joined: May 19 2018 8:56pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by echew » May 24 2018 7:26pm

John and Cecil wrote:
May 24 2018 6:38pm
I recently went from a 42t to a 34t chainring. I hated it... Not only was it worse for the chainline, but it made the gears too close together. The only bonus was it was better at climbing steep hills. I have since switched back to the stock 42t offset chainring and in the future I am going to order a wider ratio rear cassette to give some added hill climbing power.
Very interesting, I think I'm going to look into a wider ratio cassette too - seems like it could be the way to go.
John and Cecil wrote:
May 24 2018 6:38pm
This site is very helpful with calculating gearing:

http://www.bikecalc.com/gear_speed
Thanks for this! Will check it out now..

Post Reply