Bafang Ultra 1000 Drive

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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garyal1   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: May 18 2018 7:17pm

Bafang Ultra 1000 Drive

Post by garyal1 » Jun 12 2018 7:37pm

I did a search as per listed subject and got lots of hits, over 50 but all were related to a specific bikes, so I thought I would start a new topic specific to this newest drive system from Bafang.

I am not even going to state the bike brand it is in. I hope this is where we can share our experiences on this new drive without regard to specific frames, since anyone who owns one of these probably bought a purpose built bike..

Here is the technical description from Bafang's site:
The mid-drive motor constantly samples relevant information at a frequency of up to 80k Hz via a torque sensor and two speed sensors which are all highly sensitive. The resulting data on crank torque, vehicle speed and the speed of rotation of the pedals is made available to the controller, ensuring precise control of the vehicle while achieving the highest possible efficiency. The Max Drive System puts the rider in complete control. In spite of a generous power output and a maximum torque of more than 160 N.m, the motor operates in virtual silence. The modular motor design and integrated controller make disassembly easier and improve service responsiveness. This motor can be black.

The specifications can be seen here: http://www.bafang-e.com/en/components/c ... 250cb.html

I had been riding a hardtail BBSHD for several months when I received the new Ultra 1000. Immediate difference is of course torque sensing pedal assist versus the cadence system on the BBSHD. I found it disconcerting at first! My unit came programmed for 100% throttle in all assist levels 0-5 and that is also the wat my BBSHD was programed so this was how I ran the a lot of the time the first few rides as I got more used to the new torque sensing assist system.

I am now a convert to torque pedal assist, I have stayed with the stock settings for the Torque page so far, and I find you get a good cadence going in certain gears at certain assist levels all the way up to 35mph in top gear which is 11 teeth x 44 teeth on the original Bafang front sprocket. It really does make you feel like Superman! I ordered a Race Face 42 tooth sprocket yesterday and I will report back on how that changes the drive, hopefully for the better! The nice thing is the 130 Race face bolts right on to the Bafang adapter.

Power Wise the Ultra 1000 is the same on paper as the BBSHD and at 30 amps max program setting puts out 1500 watts. However this is a new drive system, the stator has a larger diameter and is wider, the drive is heavier. My initial evaluation is it does not "catch Rs" as fast as the BBSHD. Once I install the 42 tooth to match my BBSHD, I will reevaluate and report. I don't mean to imply it has less power, just a little different, but still really powerful!

I will tell you that running a whole 20.4AH 48 volt battery thru this unit at full throttle doing average 25-30 mph on dirt roads does not get the drive unit very hot at all. It runs strong and quiet.

So far I am quite happy with this drive. If you really want to clown pedal, you can by just using the throttle and pedals. :lol:

Is the new Bafang Ultra 1000 better than the Bafang BBSHD?
Yes, if torque sensing PAS is your desire.
If not and cadence PAS is good for you then the BBSHD is a great drive and maybe most importantly does NOT require a purpose built frame and is a better choice for DIY for that reason alone.

AF7JA   100 W

100 W
Posts: 126
Joined: Jun 09 2015 3:56pm
Location: Salt Lake, UT

Re: Bafang Ultra 1000 Drive

Post by AF7JA » Jun 13 2018 8:40am

I have been looking at some of these new cycle motors from BaFang, in particular, the one Luna carries. I ride a recumbent. I have been wondering how hard it would be to get a welder to weld the bottom bracket boom to a bracket for one of these motors.Or, for that matter,, if anyone offers them pre-welded.

When I speak of the bottem bracket boom, I am essentially speaking of this part, which slides into the main frame/boom to adjust tor different height riders:
Image
image from here

in particular, I am looking for something like this:
Image
image from here

. . . only with the BaFang bracket instead of the shimano bracket.

garyal1   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: May 18 2018 7:17pm

Re: Bafang Ultra 1000 Drive

Post by garyal1 » Jun 13 2018 9:55am

I know nothing about recumbant bikes. However, that looks totally doable. The fact that it slides in and out means you could take off your stock unit and have the Banfang bracket welded onto it then simply replace it.

If you would be satisfied with Cadence PAS instead of Torque PAS, then all you would need do is remove your crank assembly from your existing bottom bracket then install the BBSHD unit with no cutting or welding required!

AF7JA   100 W

100 W
Posts: 126
Joined: Jun 09 2015 3:56pm
Location: Salt Lake, UT

Re: Bafang Ultra 1000 Drive

Post by AF7JA » Jun 13 2018 11:05am

garyal1 wrote:
Jun 13 2018 9:55am
If you would be satisfied with Cadence PAS instead of Torque PAS, then all you would need do is remove your crank assembly from your existing bottom bracket then install the BBSHD unit with no cutting or welding required!
I did that on the last trike; well, I used a BBS02. The idea was essentially the same; however, it was very hard to start on steep grades.

Image
Yes, overloaded. Basically everything I would use over the course of the summer. You can see the BaFang in the front.

garyal1   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: May 18 2018 7:17pm

Re: Bafang Ultra 1000 Drive

Post by garyal1 » Jun 13 2018 1:33pm

That is a very cool set up!

The BBSHD, with a $20 programming cable can be set to 30 amps, 1500 watts. this would give you a lot more starting torque that a BBS02. At least that is the way I understand it. Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.

AF7JA   100 W

100 W
Posts: 126
Joined: Jun 09 2015 3:56pm
Location: Salt Lake, UT

Re: Bafang Ultra 1000 Drive

Post by AF7JA » Jun 13 2018 4:44pm

garyal1 wrote:
Jun 13 2018 1:33pm
That is a very cool set up!

The BBSHD, with a $20 programming cable can be set to 30 amps, 1500 watts. this would give you a lot more starting torque that a BBS02. At least that is the way I understand it. Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.
When solar traveling the objective is to keep the power out as low as practical. I almost never went over 300W and tried to keep the power out down about 250W. Of course, there were some long grades that drew pretty heavily on the battery. Power consumption was constantly balanced against speed.

I really liked the Nuvinci as it allowed me to carefully trim the power consumption. Version 2 is almost certain to also have a Nuvinci.

garyal1   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: May 18 2018 7:17pm

Re: Bafang Ultra 1000 Drive

Post by garyal1 » Jun 14 2018 7:32pm

Now I understand! That make is even more cool. I am interested in your thoughts on the Nuvinci 380. It is offered with the BBS02 on the Evelo bikes and I was wondering if it would hold up with the BBSHD? I like it for several reasons beyond the infinite variable adjustment. Also because the gears are not exposed to dirt and sand. Nothing to get broken off on rough single tracks.

AF7JA   100 W

100 W
Posts: 126
Joined: Jun 09 2015 3:56pm
Location: Salt Lake, UT

Re: Bafang Ultra 1000 Drive

Post by AF7JA » Jun 14 2018 7:50pm

garyal1 wrote:
Jun 14 2018 7:32pm
Now I understand! That make is even more cool. I am interested in your thoughts on the Nuvinci 380. It is offered with the BBS02 on the Evelo bikes and I was wondering if it would hold up with the BBSHD? I like it for several reasons beyond the infinite variable adjustment. Also because the gears are not exposed to dirt and sand. Nothing to get broken off on rough single tracks.
I used an N380 on my trip (I just checked one of my receipts to make sure that was correct). I was very pleased with it and had no trouble at all with the hub. On one long 13% grade (I didn't even realize such a thing existed before that trip) I got curious and did a hand check on the hub. It was warm but not hot.

The only major drivetrain change I had to make on the trip was changing to a BMX chain. The nine speed chain I started with was breaking.

I mention rebuilding because the one I made the trip with was stolen. Fortunately, I had the panels and charge controller in the garage when this happened.

Other than the issue of not having a torque sensor, I was very happy with the BBS02. I was advised to open it and grease the internal gears with Moly grease before starting out. I did do that; but I have no idea if it was really necessary. Luna cycle recommended that I carry a spare controller; so I did but I never needed it.

I would definitely recommend the combination of the N380 and the BBS02. However, as I stated, my goal was to cross the Rocky Mountains without ever plugging in. As such, I never used the maximum power available to the BBS02.

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