Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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macribs   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Aug 19 2018 2:59am

fechter wrote:
Aug 18 2018 12:24am
macribs wrote:
Aug 17 2018 11:02pm
Consider doing any needed mods to the thumb throttle or cable rather then the pot box, that way you don't end up with getting stuck'd in the pouring rain because the halls short out due to rain. Regular e-bike throttles are working well in nice weather, when rain is pouring it is a different story. Pot box for the win.
I agree you don't want to sacrifice water resistance. But it is not that hard to take almost any hall throttle and make it waterproof by potting the hall sensor wires. I have some I tested underwater.

Didn't even think about that. But there is one more important aspect of using standard cable operated throttle, the ease of throttle modulation. Give it a little or give it a lot of throttle. A good cable operated throttle gives you more of the familiar motorcycle feel when cracking the throttle.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Aug 19 2018 7:43am

Jonathan1981 wrote:
Aug 19 2018 1:30am
I've read all 74 pages of this thread. I'm so amazed.... should I pull the trigger or what? is it worth it? what are some of the first mods I should look into doing when it arrives?
At this price yes it is worth it. It is ridiculously cheap for what you get, nothing else can compete with this, not even close. This bike would cost $10K+ if made anyplace else but china.
I want to get one just to put in my living room as a display piece it is that cheap, lol, joke.

This bike has basically made all our hub motored bikes obsolete. It also is built just right, almost like I built it based on everything I didn't like about my hub motored bikes.

It has a very good range, removable battery, mid drive, good rear suspension, modern looking frame, seems to be a beast to drive.
It also doesn't overheat easy like a hub motored bike.

It seems to be very reliable, this is a huge benefit because it took me a few years to build my bike to where I wasn't fixing something every ride. They seemed to have engineered this so that it doesn't fall apart on you.

Of course you have to consider if you can ride around with something like this without having issues with police.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » Aug 19 2018 9:50am

Offroader wrote:
Of course you have to consider if you can ride around with something like this without having issues with police.
Actually, a few of us have solved that too! Some people have registered their bikes as mopeds in California, and I just registered mine as a moped in North Carolina. Check your local rules and give it a shot.

You'll also need to keep it in eco mode to keep it under 30 mph.

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Aug 19 2018 10:09am

Jonathan1981 wrote:
Aug 19 2018 1:30am
I've read all 74 pages of this thread. I'm so amazed.... should I pull the trigger or what? is it worth it? what are some of the first mods I should look into doing when it arrives?
Yeah pull the trigger on this bike, you will be pleased. Price alone dictates this is the bike to get. You can't even build a similar priced bike yourself even if you build it solely on used parts. Or you possible could if you have insane ninja purchasing skills, or sticky fingers like a thief. :lol:

Mods. That is not as straight forward as it might seem. What are your points of reference? What do you ride today? What kind of riding do you enjoy the most? What kind of actual riding will your sur ron do most of the time?

Some can enjoy the bike stock without any issues, other don't like the brakes. Swap out for better suspension. Upgrade controller. It all depends on how you will be using your new bike. And you might not even know for sure yet before you actually have ridden the bike a few weeks then you can more easily see what you adore and what if any changes you feel is mandatory.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Aug 19 2018 10:33am

Rix wrote:
Aug 18 2018 10:43am
Allex wrote:
Aug 18 2018 4:06am
very good wheelies!

Heres is an X with MTB tire up front. 50mm rise on the handlebars.
Image
How about a side view pic?

@ Kim, nice wheelies indeed. I can do a short "power wheelie" on mine, but I am not good at doing the wheelie the way you are with throttle, balance, and brake control.
26" up front with zefal mud guard and 60T rear sprocket.
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Aug 19 2018 10:49am

Aesthetically speaking Allex, the front wheel with the white rim looks good with the white decals. How come you running a 60T on the rear? I found that the 52T pulled almost as hard as the 58T from dead stop, and gives me more top speed. As I have written before, I think inductance load has something to do with this and I speculate the 55T sprockets Motomoto has cut will probably out perform the 58T everywhere above 2MPH. But I am using the stock controller. You have the X FOC controller, tell us whats going on with that and the 60T performance wise.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Aug 19 2018 10:52am

Sorry, could not tell you as this is not my bike, never ridden it!
Personally, it looks weird with the bigger wheel, it is much nicer with a smaller one.
I see luna selling the new controller, did you order one?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Aug 19 2018 12:17pm

Personally, it looks weird with the bigger wheel, it is much nicer with a smaller one.
I see luna selling the new controller, did you order one?
Yah, I agree the smaller moto wheel looks better up front. If the owner of this bike's goal was to save weight, he would probably be better off with a 24MTB up front, like the one on the Bomber and Fighter. With what you posted about the X version being unreliable with the new controller, I figured I would hold off until the bugs are worked out. Also, I don't want any kind of regen braking involving the brake levers. Is there away to disconnect that feature?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » Aug 19 2018 12:26pm

I don't think Luna is selling the X controller, at least I haven't seen it on their site. Also, as long as I know, you could order only limited quantity of those just for your own testing.

I remember reading somewhere in the thread the EU homologated version should come with the sin-wave controller stock, so I guess by when you will get the first batch at the end of September, the problem with the controller will most likely already be solved?

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Aug 19 2018 1:13pm

You can just disconnect the wires that goes into the brake levers, thats it - no more regen.
EU versions will have the old style controller!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by nicolasbv15 » Aug 19 2018 4:47pm

racingame wrote:
Aug 17 2018 10:38pm
nicolasbv15 wrote:
Aug 17 2018 7:48pm
Hi guys ! my brake pads are completely worned out and im wondering whats best replacement? i heard magura mt5 pads are good? are they a direct fit? any link to purchase? any other alternatives?
Anything of the same size as stock ones would be good. You can see the image below for comparison.

Image

Avid Trail brake pads should fit perfectly.
thx man!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Aug 19 2018 5:23pm

Allex wrote:
Aug 19 2018 10:52am
Sorry, could not tell you as this is not my bike, never ridden it!
Personally, it looks weird with the bigger wheel, it is much nicer with a smaller one.
I see luna selling the new controller, did you order one?
Agree with the looks, I run a 26" front and 17" rear on my Q76R. I don't like the way it looks, but because of the hub motor there is nothing you can really do but use a smaller rear wheel to get better performance and less heat.

He should probably run a 24" bicycle tire up front.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Aug 19 2018 8:47pm

racingame wrote:
Aug 19 2018 12:26pm
I don't think Luna is selling the X controller, at least I haven't seen it on their site. Also, as long as I know, you could order only limited quantity of those just for your own testing.
Luna was selling it, but they quickly sold out. I ordered one before they did and it is supposed to arrive tomorrow.
Allex wrote:
Aug 19 2018 1:13pm
You can just disconnect the wires that goes into the brake levers, thats it - no more regen.
Are you certain? Luna says that as soon as you let off the throttle the regen kicks in when in Sport Mode - no breaking required. No regen when in EP mode.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Aug 19 2018 8:51pm

Allex wrote:
Aug 19 2018 10:52am
Personally, it looks weird with the bigger wheel, it is much nicer with a smaller one.
A agree about the looks; but that aside - mountain bike tires have so much less tread on it, I don't see how it could be advantageous for traction/cornering (especially compared to the M403s I am running).

Also, mountain bike tires can't be anywhere as tough or forgiving for not getting flats from thorns etc.

No thanks - I'll stick with motorbike tires! :lol:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by jaxwithanx » Aug 19 2018 10:44pm

Rix wrote:
Aug 18 2018 11:02pm
Offroader wrote:
Aug 18 2018 8:57pm
Does anyone know the cheapest place to purchase a Sur-Ron if you live in USA? Is Luna cycles really the only way to get this bike in USA? I hear people saying they paid $2600 for it on youtube.
Those folks are buying directly from Sur-Ron in China, and they are probably saving a little money as the foreign exchange rate can vary in benefit of the US dollar.
I'm not really understanding the benefit to buying direct from Luna seeing how there still isn't a warranty. A few issues have arose with dead batteries and the like on the Facebook group and it'll be interesting to see how they play out with Luna. But even if they support issues right now, there is no written warranty so if someone is willing to do the legwork with importing their own....I don't see any benefits coming from going with Luna. I need to contact some of those YouTube reviewers....I'm willing to do legwork to save myself a few hundred. Just need to really look into the importing fees and such.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Aug 20 2018 2:11am

3DTOPO wrote:
Aug 19 2018 8:47pm
Are you certain? Luna says that as soon as you let off the throttle the regen kicks in when in Sport Mode - no breaking required. No regen when in EP mode.
Thats sucks, in this case we need to check if they can re-program it the "right way"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Aug 20 2018 2:36am

Allex wrote:
Aug 20 2018 2:11am
3DTOPO wrote:
Aug 19 2018 8:47pm
Are you certain? Luna says that as soon as you let off the throttle the regen kicks in when in Sport Mode - no breaking required. No regen when in EP mode.
Thats sucks, in this case we need to check if they can re-program it the "right way"
I'll post a brief review how I like it once I get some miles in with it. But personally, I think it makes pretty good sense. Generally, if I am not giving her throttle I am trying to slow down in a hurry. When I want to coast, it's easier enough to flip to EP mode.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Aug 20 2018 7:11am

jaxwithanx wrote:
Aug 19 2018 10:44pm
Rix wrote:
Aug 18 2018 11:02pm
Offroader wrote:
Aug 18 2018 8:57pm
Does anyone know the cheapest place to purchase a Sur-Ron if you live in USA? Is Luna cycles really the only way to get this bike in USA? I hear people saying they paid $2600 for it on youtube.
Those folks are buying directly from Sur-Ron in China, and they are probably saving a little money as the foreign exchange rate can vary in benefit of the US dollar.
I'm not really understanding the benefit to buying direct from Luna seeing how there still isn't a warranty. A few issues have arose with dead batteries and the like on the Facebook group and it'll be interesting to see how they play out with Luna. But even if they support issues right now, there is no written warranty so if someone is willing to do the legwork with importing their own....I don't see any benefits coming from going with Luna. I need to contact some of those YouTube reviewers....I'm willing to do legwork to save myself a few hundred. Just need to really look into the importing fees and such.
Let us know what you find. The issue is the shipment of a single bike from china vs Luna getting a container of them. Luna also charges you $180 shipping, on top of the $3500 price tag. Its expensive to ship stuff from china in small quantities.

If Luna offers no warranty, and you can ship a bike direct from china and save $500 or more dollars, and you don't mind waiting a month or two extra, I see no reason why one shouldn't consider this option. If its only a few hundred in savings its probably not worth it, because Luna would probably help you out if something was serious wrong with the bike even though they don't have a warranty.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by jaxwithanx » Aug 20 2018 8:49am

My thoughts exactly. Once it gets over $500 it just doesn't really make sense to me to go through a local supplier when they have nothing written to protect you.

I'm going to start sending out emails and see what I can piece together.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Pinotman » Aug 20 2018 9:02am

For those of us in Australia, Volt Ebike ( Sydney based ebike business ) are taking pre orders for the legal road registered version of Sur Ron .. I believe the owner ' Johnson' has just come back from China and is advertising it's an exclusive Aussie deal Volt has done on the Sur Ron 'legal' version to sell in Australia. Not sure if this is correct and fair dinkum or not but their ad is now up on Gumtree for these bikes for anyone in Aussie land interested to check it out. I'm not sure if the other Aussie distributors of Sur- Ron will be selling this version??

Cheers
Nic.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Aug 20 2018 9:16am

Those of you in US might need to take on the PITA of a group buy to make any savings worth chasing. A few chinese marketplaces you can get Sur Ron. But the price ain't that much cheaper then what Luna charges. Plus you get shipping, possible import taxes and fees and you might be waiting upward up to three months for shipping if the stars don't align in your favor. I've had bad luck a couple of times ordering from China, all it takes to add several weeks extra is that your shipment is one of those that custom will look at. Or that the freight company keeps accepting cargo waiting for container to be maxed out. That is common or economy shipping.

Tbh if it was me I would pay Luna the money just to avoid the extra wait. Still lots of season left for riding, but if your bike takes 3 months to arrive things might look different and you might not get much out of this season.

In the end, each to his own and whatever makes you happy that is the right choice for you.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Aug 20 2018 9:38am

macribs, you are probably right and most likely that is the way to go about it.

But when people are saying they paid $2600 on youtube for the bike, that is a whopping $1000 savings over Luna after paying Luna shipping.

I'm just saying I'd like to know more information about how people paid $2600 and its best to know our options. Yes it is crazy cheap even paying $3500 for this bike, but if we can save another $1000, why not, especially when people are claiming to have paid $2600.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Aug 20 2018 9:55am

Offroader wrote:
Aug 20 2018 9:38am
macribs, you are probably right and most likely that is the way to go about it.

But when people are saying they paid $2600 on youtube for the bike, that is a whopping $1000 savings over Luna after paying Luna shipping.

I'm just saying I'd like to know more information about how people paid $2600 and its best to know our options. Yes it is crazy cheap even paying $3500 for this bike, but if we can save another $1000, why not, especially when people are claiming to have paid $2600.
If you order the SurRon directly form China, the price is subject to change on a weekly basis because of the constant fluctuating currency exchange rate. Because it is over $2,000, you will also get sapped with a custom import tax. This happened to me when I received a bunch of suspension forks and shocks from China. I am not saying you wont save money ordering direct, you will if you time the foreign exchange rate in your favor, that said, I bet you end up still paying around 3k after everything is said and done.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Aug 20 2018 12:48pm

macribs wrote:
Aug 20 2018 9:16am
Tbh if it was me I would pay Luna the money just to avoid the extra wait. Still lots of season left for riding, but if your bike takes 3 months to arrive things might look different and you might not get much out of this season.
Yeah, Luna has them in stock now, versus possibly waiting months to order one. And even though Luna hasn't published a warranty yet - they told me it would apply retroactively and I know they have been supporting the bike for the few people that have had a rare issue with the bike - versus being on your own.

Also, I could be wrong, but wouldn't you also have to pay a 3rd party service to order and ship it to you? I also understand that shipping a huge battery has issues of its own.

If it was me, I would just order one from Luna. The ease of ordering, their support (plus eventual warranty) and because it would arrive in a week makes up for any potential savings in my mind.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » Aug 20 2018 1:44pm

Offroader wrote:
Aug 19 2018 7:43am
This bike has basically made all our hub motored bikes obsolete. It also is built just right, almost like I built it based on everything I didn't like about my hub motored bikes.
I'm still waiting for my Sur Ron to arrive, but do you think there is still a niche for lighter weight hub motor ebikes? I was in the middle of building up a large hub motor (TC3080) MTB when I found out I could make the Sur Ron street legal and switched my plans. I'm still interested in finishing that bike. I wonder if a lighter hub motor, such as a geared Mac 8T motor, mated with a small 12fet controller and a 52V downtube battery on a full suspension MTB would have some advantages to the Sur Ron?

It should still work well on road, reach 30 mph and climb moderate hills. It should be less than half the weight, around 50 lbs. I'm also thinking being built on a bike frame should allow me to ride quietly on a few MTB trails, where the Sur Ron would probably get noticed too easily.

I'm also thinking about towing a Kids Bike trailer to day care. I imagine hooking one of those to the Sur Ron will lead to some eyebrow raises by other parents and perhaps calls to the police, even if I keep it under 20 mph. But I imagine no one would notice a bike trailer behind a lightweight e-bike....

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