Bikee Bike motor build

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor ebike build

Post by elementary » Aug 18 2018 2:52pm

Bikee motor was installed in 190mm rear wheel hardtail, that had a BBS-HD with a 52v Shark pack.
This frame swing arm was already modified to clear the leekie 42t BBS-HD sprocket. That is important to because the Bikee motor need 6mm of shims to provide the same clearance... It has a 44t large sprocket.
The Bikee motor 22t sprocket was changed to the optional 36t provided by Bikee.
After sprocket swap and shim addition, the install was easy. After the 52v shark was removed the bag was alerted to fit 20s Hobbyking Multi-Rotor pack.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE these cells the same as the cyclone 3000w setup and the CA-3 displayed 84v and upto 65 amps on the last ride 6 days ago.
Enough of the simple stuff, here are my opinions:
What I liked:
My first impulse is to say "nothing", but the install was easy, so I like that.
What I didn't like:
1. The cell phone app is a pain, each time we powered off the phone it needed a new disclaimer acceptance and to find the Bluetooth connection to the controller again.
2. Even when pedaling, the Bikee motor is much noisier than any Bafang BBS-HD or BBS-02.
3. When not pedaling it is as loud or maybe louder than a Cyclone 3000w but not as loud as a mini- cyclone.
4. Not sure what ebikes they have in Italy, but something is really wrong the the one I received... Or they never ridden a Cyclone 3000w with 84v 65 amps...
Yes, "RACE" button is ON and all settings are set to "other" ... I even changed the modes 1,2,3 settings from 750w and 1000w, 1000w to other.
Not sure what is wrong, but top speed is 16 - 18 mph and the maximum watts seen were around 1400w maybe a jump to 1600w on a hill.
I am like Alice in wonderland... down a rabbit hole.
So stick me with a fork, I am done... until I hear the Bikee response
Attachments
Screenshot_2018-08-18_150542.jpg
Hard tail 190mm rear wheel spacing
Screenshot_2018-08-18_150554.jpg
Bikee in fatty frame
Screenshot_2018-08-18_150533.jpg
Hobbyking 84v capable to 150 amps
Last edited by elementary on Aug 18 2018 4:02pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by Pilot Engineer » Aug 18 2018 3:59pm

Hi Walter, let's see what's your setup:
Are you using the 44t chainring?
Have you enabled the race mode?
Is the taming set to zero?
As I understand the motor is less performing than your last setup, is that correct?

About the app, if you leave it open in the background and power on the battery before opening that, you shouldn't go through the process each time. If it doesn't reconnect automatically you can go in the setting page for e secs and back. The system we reconnect automatically.

Thanks
Matteo

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 18 2018 4:16pm

I tried "RACE" both 36t and 44t "OTHER" on all modes.
I recall swiping the assist and throttle to the right... if I recall correctly assist was 98 and throttle 95 percent.
No way to tell if this is better or worse than the carbon frame because we were using 16s and the swing arm bolt broke before we had an opportunity to to run wide open.
Even in the test stand with no load it was shutting off. I don't remember it doing that with 16s... I will try putting it battery to 16s and see if it still has a speed limit.

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by Pilot Engineer » Aug 18 2018 4:38pm

If you put throttle taming to 98% that's the nanny mode. Throttle taming should be set to zero.

If it's shutting off it could be the speed sensor on the wheel which is not correctly positioned or the battery which cuts off because cannot keep up with the amp draw.

Please let me know
Thanks
Matteo

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 18 2018 4:53pm

Tried another set of batteries, 16ah 16s then tried the 36t to a larger sprocket 28? 30?? in the rear to let the motor spin free.. with race, and higher settings on assist and throttle.
This is what I learned...
1. Long throttle lag, feel almost 1 second... No a good thing..
2. On a level ground in lower gear it pulled 1700 watts, reach 24 mph then start cutting the watts back... would go no faster
3. When I shift to higher gear, it could NOT pull the load and the watts were maximum 600 to 700.
4. I feel no heat in the battery leads, which I found unusual because the cyclone 3000w would always heat them up warm to touch
I will change batteries and try more tomorrow.
Attachments
Screenshot_2018-08-18_175109.jpg
Screenshot_2018-08-18_175101.jpg

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 18 2018 4:55pm

That good to know, I will set the throttle to 0 ... If the wheel sensor is wrong why does it show speed?

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by Pilot Engineer » Aug 18 2018 5:02pm

If you use the hardest gear combination you should see at least 40 amps with taming set to zero.

If you see the speed then the sensor is OK.

From the picture I see that the battery is low. If the amp draw is high in those conditions the voltage goes down and the low voltage cutoff shuts the battery down.

It's a good thing to test it again with the battery you previously used on the carbon bike, just to make sure everything works the same way or to fully charge the 20s battery and test it again

Thanks
Matteo

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 18 2018 5:10pm

Throttle to 0 ib race other this what happened..
1. No throttle lag
2. Could pull 25amps 1700watts but shutting off at 20 mph
3. Tried higher gears but it could not pull the load..
Hobbyking battery don't have a BMS, they don't shut off... Even in a discharged state, the can do 100+ amps if shorted... Ask me how I know that :shock: :shock:

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 18 2018 5:17pm

FYI, 16s shows 65.8 volts with a meter, your gauge shows 12 percent..
the 16s fullt charged is 67.2 volts
Does that seem logical?
How is that calculated?

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by Pilot Engineer » Aug 18 2018 5:31pm

The firmware is currently made to figure out the battery data for either 48V or 72V so the battery charge ia calculated basing on 72V battery.

Please do this test: hardest gear: 44t chainring at the front and 11T sprocket.
20s battery fully charged or 16s battery fully charged.
Assistance to 100%
Throttle override enabled
Race enabled
Others as country
Taming to zero
Use the throttle to give full power.

That's where you get the most power. If you can verify that with both batteries fully charged we can make sure that is not a battery problem.

Thanks
Matteo

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 18 2018 7:08pm

Just to double check, I put the 16s 16 amp hr pack on the charger... It was fully charged in 40 minutes and biker app rated it at 44 percent HOT of the charger.
1. That seems to imply the bikee app doesn't know that 67.4 volts is fully charged. On the cycle analysis I need to tell it how many cell the pack had before it set the fuel gauge. How do I do that on the Bikee app?
2. Again, the Bikee in RACE + OTHER couple only pull 25 amps and only in lower gears when I let it wind up. But I did get it to go 27 mph down a slight grade... But they amps dropped down to 10 or less
3. Bikee cannot pull 44t to 11t... Race+ other full throttle to a slow roll 8 amps about 560 watts
4 .I tried 44t to 11t race + other with the brakes on a got about the same 7 amps.. see picture

What can you say that will convince me that Hobbyking 10c 16 aHr fully charged drone batteries can only deliver 25 amps?
FYI, the 10c rating implies 10 times battery rating... So 160 amp burst rating

right?, So we should assume there is a controller fault with the Bikee OTHER + RACE settings. Correct?

I will try the 20s again later
Attachments
Screenshot_2018-08-18_200210.jpg
Brakes on high throttle

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 18 2018 7:26pm

The good news, 20s full charge shows 100 percent.
The bad news... See picture
Full throttle 44t to 11t with 20s full charge id same about the same as 16s.. Not pulling
Attachments
Screenshot_2018-08-18_202445.jpg
44t to 11t full throttle

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Pilot Engineer   100 mW

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by Pilot Engineer » Aug 19 2018 7:54am

Walter. That seems strange . The motor is either working or not. There's no such a thing as reduced power. If I understand correctly the max speed you achieved with the 20s configuration is 27mph with a max amp draw of 25 amps. That makes 1800W which is way less than the motor is supposed to give you. Plus, I doubt that 1800W are enough to take apart your bike bolts.

For me it's not a problem to give you a full refund, but you'll have to wait that we come back from holidays on Aug the 27th.

So if, in the meanwhile, do you have the opportunity to test the same batteries on another built, with another motor?

Or if you want to record the screen of your phone while you're testing it ( with apps such as this one https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... order.free ) that will help us understanding what's happening. Please take a glimpse of the setting page as well in the video before the test.

Sometimes if the connectors are not well welded or the wire gauge is too small, you get an high voltage drop at full charge.

Thanks
Matteo
Last edited by Pilot Engineer on Aug 19 2018 8:43am, edited 1 time in total.

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 19 2018 8:31am

Okay lets review.

1. The batteries were on we're working fine uoto 65 amps on cyclone motors two weeks ago.

2. Unfortunately, the cyclone bikes were sold and my remaining bikes are all Bafang motors and they only draw 30 amps maximum.

3. The wiring is the Bikee cable all I added was a ST-90 connector... see picture

4. After full throttle run, here is NO heat on any wires or connectors

5. I must assume the swing arm piviot bolt was previously damaged by the cyclone motors... The Cyclone motors broke bolts before.

6. I must assume there is a software loop feed problem, that is only way that controller should limit itself to 8 amp draw with the brakes on.. . See previous pictures.

6a.. If it were the battery, it have gone to the 25 amp limit we seen during testing.

6b. If the wiring had a 25 amp limit, during the brakes on test it should have gone up to 25 amps and started to smoke.

7. The controller is marked as 48 volts... If that is correct, then 25 amp limit make sense.. see picture.

I will be unavailable until September 15, 2018... Please email details..
Attachments
Screenshot_2018-08-19_093449.jpg
Wire
Screenshot_2018-08-19_093421.jpg
48 volts controller
Last edited by elementary on Aug 19 2018 11:22am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by Pilot Engineer » Aug 19 2018 9:14am

Walter, OK thanks. would you please send me the screenshot of the app settings you used to test the motor? Thanks, Matteo

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 19 2018 4:15pm

FYI, as a final test, we used the amp meter from a drone. It was placed on the bike between the battery and bikee controller...
During this test the bike still reduced power by itself to about 22 amps??? That info was was flashed on the Bikee cellphone app, but the highest the drone battery amp meter showed was about 21 amps... See picture

This definitely rules out the wiring or battery...
So this is a controller problem.
Attachments
Screenshot_2018-08-19_171212.jpg
Amp meter

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by Pilot Engineer » Aug 20 2018 9:28am

Hi Walter , I know that you already unistalled the motor. Is there a way for you to plug in the battery again and check on the app settings the firmware version? Thanks, Matteo

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 20 2018 12:09pm

Not Walter...

but on his behalf here is a earlier screen shot found in the bikee file.

Does this help?
Attachments
Screenshot_2018-08-19_124938.jpg
Screen shot

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by Pilot Engineer » Aug 22 2018 9:15am

Hi yes that helps, thanks. I've been able to get in touch with the firmware engineer (on holiday) and he said that that version of the firmware is for the 1000W motor. So it's limiting the max power to 25 amp. Walter was right, that's our mistake. So if he has the chance, we'll be able to send the new firmware the 27th. If Walter would like to give it a try, he will get the chance to finally test the motor without limitations. Please let me know. Thanks, Matteo

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 22 2018 11:07am

Walter is unavailable until mid September.

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by Pilot Engineer » Aug 22 2018 4:46pm

I know, if you can get hold of him, please let him know. Thanks, Matteo

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by Pilot Engineer » Aug 27 2018 11:30am

Hi Walter, we just came back from holidays and I sent you the app to finally unlock the motor. Please let me know if everything goes smooth. Thanks, Matteo

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 30 2018 10:04am

The download and firmware installation went very well with no issues.

This is what I learned during testing on a paved 1/2 mile loop with gradual up/down grades that lasted for about 8 miles of loops at different settings.

Note:
A. The Bikee app tire size was set at 29" to best estimate the size of 26" x 4.5" knobby
B. These off-road tires that have a high rolling resistance on paved surface so the speed will be lower.
C. The 20s Hobbyking Multi-Rotor were charged to 83.5 volts.

What I learned...

1. The Bikee app and motor powered up and all settings as suggested by Bikee loaded no issues.

2. Throttle and PAS seemed fine and the few little adjustments we explored responded well.

3. Although tires or speedometer calibration may have been a limiting factor, did reach 39 mph before needing slow down for turns

4. The maximum amps observed on the Bikee display was 38 amp full load at highest speed.

5. The Turnigy amp meter displayed a maximum of 37 amps for the entire test duration

Bottomline, the Bikee motor is a good idea but I cannot use it for my trails bike project because it is too loud for our shared trails.

As a final observation

Both the Cyclone 3000w and the Bikee we're used in the same bike with the same batteries. The stock Cyclone 3000w even with the unmodified 40 amp controller is more powerful with quicker throttle response than the Bikee motor... I assume that is because of cyclone motor primary sprocket gear ratio... But the Bikee had a top speed advantage for the same rear cluster rational selection and the throttle is much tamer... The cyclone 3000 throttle at 72v/84v 20s really needs a cycle analysis CA-3 to make drivable in the woods.

Both the Cyclone 3000w and Bikee have gear noise, but the Bikee is louder and did NOT repond to stealth throttle "settings tricks" for sneaking by people and dogs as well as the cyclone did... Motor video links below

Bikee motor no spinning pedals:
https://youtu.be/9h8D0E-vG_Y
Cyclone:
https://youtu.be/WsX4TZ-nwFw
Bikee spinning pedals:
https://youtu.be/UZ79hN2Z1wE
Bafang full throttle:
https://youtu.be/He2_1qULYxc

IMHO, The Bafang BBS-HD is still the best motor for shared trails
Attachments
Screenshot_2018-08-30_110133.jpg
Screenshot_2018-08-30_110328.jpg
Last edited by elementary on Aug 30 2018 7:49pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by Pilot Engineer » Aug 30 2018 2:20pm

Walter, thanks for taking the opportunity to update the firmware and test again the system.

So you got 38amps x 83.5 Volts = 3150W . Not bad for a 1500W motor.

What's the cyclone max speed?

Did you get that if the pedal spins the noise goes away? That's the 200Nm dog clutch making the clicking sound.

Thanks
Matteo

elementary   10 W

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Re: Bikee Bike motor build

Post by elementary » Aug 31 2018 3:19pm

Because the Cyclone used carbide studded tires a top seed run was never attempted.

Regarding the Bikee motor noise. It still has gear noise when using PAS. In all honestly, Bikee or Cyclones regardless of wattage settings, should not be ridden in a state park... Surely someone would call a patrol officer because the motor sounds are that noticable. People do ride Bafang 750w BBS-HD and BBS-02 ebikes there as they are nearly silent... the tires make more noise than a Bafang motor

https://youtu.be/tn2hj8u4axk

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