SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Jonathan1981   10 W

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Sep 11 2018 1:03am

3DTOPO wrote:
Sep 10 2018 11:21pm
Jonathan1981 wrote:
Sep 10 2018 11:16pm
if it's forged than that's even better than die cast...
Yes, of course it is. That is why I offered the correction. ;)
Jonathan1981 wrote:
Sep 10 2018 11:16pm
why not just use simple tube and CNC? always start easy and cheap for proto's. See what you can do for those measurement and keep us posted.
Yeah, that's pretty much the plan! I wasn't suggesting that I was going to make it any other way.
Sounds good :)... for measuring things off the frame, a good quality caliper should be enough, I usually only go to 3 decimals for critical parts...

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by 3DTOPO » Sep 11 2018 1:15am

Jonathan1981 wrote:
Sep 11 2018 1:03am
3DTOPO wrote:
Sep 10 2018 11:21pm
Jonathan1981 wrote:
Sep 10 2018 11:16pm
if it's forged than that's even better than die cast...
Yes, of course it is. That is why I offered the correction. ;)
Jonathan1981 wrote:
Sep 10 2018 11:16pm
why not just use simple tube and CNC? always start easy and cheap for proto's. See what you can do for those measurement and keep us posted.
Yeah, that's pretty much the plan! I wasn't suggesting that I was going to make it any other way.
Sounds good :)... for measuring things off the frame, a good quality caliper should be enough, I usually only go to 3 decimals for critical parts...
Yeah, not sure if my calipers will be long enough and getting angles (compounded) can make getting them nice and accurate tough.

Once the frame is off, shouldn't take too much effort to just mount it in the machine a couple times (a side and a top profile should hopefully do). I think it's a case that it will take a little effort to setup but once done it will probably be the easiest and almost certainly the most accurate.

This is my monster CNC machine BTW. (heh I don't have dreadlocks any more though) :lol:

Image
Image
Last edited by 3DTOPO on Sep 11 2018 3:50pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jonathan1981   10 W

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Sep 11 2018 10:39am

Yeah it get's tricky, you have to get creative sometime, using straight edges, rods and shafts in the mounts that jut out so you can measure to center on a plane....sometimes you just have to do the best you can, won't always be perfect.

Dread are cool, not so good around heavy machinery :lol:

I think this will be a cool project tho 3D, glad to be involved, just my time is so limited right now, otherwise I'd be full on into Surron mods.

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Sep 13 2018 8:08am

stonezone wrote:
Sep 10 2018 4:37pm
the converter is down in front of the motor behind the plastic guard between it and the controller. it can handle up to 18s so far tested.
Thanks, I see it now. Looks to be a pretty decent size. I was trying to determine the output rating. Just based on size, I'd guess at least 5A.
It looks like I might be able to access it by removing the bottom cover of the battery compartment.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Sep 16 2018 6:24pm

Jonathan1981 wrote:
Sep 10 2018 12:53am
Also interested in getting some feedback on this sprocket design.... this is a 55T design but can be made to any size.. The core body is thicker than stock, .385" but cored out on the back so still fairly lightweight... 1lb. Clean and simple hole pattern, screen printed graphics on the front, plain black screen print on the back. CNC 6061 billet. Thinking now 7000 series might be better tho...
Got the quote back for this design, too expensive, I'm going to re-work it to make it cheaper.. :)

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Sep 17 2018 8:42am

Since I can't seem to find any dirt to ride legally on within 50 miles of my house, I'm trying to make my Sur-ron more street survivable. I found a new tail light assembly that has brake, tail and turn signals all integrated into a single unit. This also came with a license plate holder which I needed too. The license plate looks like it will do a nice job of keeping road spray off the rear shock.
Img_0898A.jpg
Img_0898A.jpg (81.84 KiB) Viewed 1172 times
The Sur-ron uses a 12V high signal on the brake switches, so adding a brake light was just a matter of tapping into the brake switch wires. Not sure what the amp rating of the brake switches is, but the LED brake light draws around 100mA, so I think it will hold up fine.
Img_0894A.jpg
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I made a small angle bracket that fits the holes from the stock tail light bracket.

For the front, I found some LED flexible strip lights that wrap around the fork and are held on with a small zip tie and double sticky tape.
Img_0892A.jpg
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These don't stick out, so won't get torn off easily and they are impressively bright. They also have a running light feature where they are both white until the turn signal is activated, then the active one turns amber and blinks.
Img_0893.jpg
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To activate the turn signals, I found a replacement handlebar switch on eBay that worked well. It has the turn signal switch and horn button, along with a high/low headlight switch that I repurposed to be the Sport Mode switch. This will be the "cop switch" in case I ever get hassled about the top speed.
Img_0899.jpg
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Since the new switch didn't have the mount for the speedometer, I made a new mount for the meter that is separate from the switch. I took a small piece of aluminum channel and stuck the meter to it with VHB sticky tape. The channel has holes for a zip tie that goes around the handlebars. This works out really well as it allows me to change the angle of the meter for better visibility but still holds it firmly.
Img_0888.jpg
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Getting all the wires stuffed back into the "hairball" was a challenge. It helps a lot to remove the battery cover when working on this area.
Img_0880A.jpg
Img_0880A.jpg (92.11 KiB) Viewed 1172 times
Coming next, new tires and rear-view mirrors.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Rix » Sep 17 2018 9:32am

Nice Fetcher, looks great.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Sep 17 2018 11:22am

fechter wrote:
Sep 17 2018 8:42am
Since I can't seem to find any dirt to ride legally on within 50 miles of my house, I'm trying to make my Sur-ron more street survivable. I found a new tail light assembly that has brake, tail and turn signals all integrated into a single unit. This also came with a license plate holder which I needed too. The license plate looks like it will do a nice job of keeping road spray off the rear shock ..

Coming next, new tires and rear-view mirrors.
nice job:) any links to the front blinkers and tail light / plate holder used ??
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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by grantland » Sep 17 2018 11:45am

That's awesome! I'm planning on doing this to mine, just waiting for all the parts. Did you use flasher relays and if so, where did you put them? Would also be interested in links!

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Sep 17 2018 1:00pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Sep 17 2018 11:22am

nice job:) any links to the front blinkers and tail light / plate holder used ??
Shop around. These are all pretty generic parts.

Rear combination brake/tail/turn signal/plate holder
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-red-20LED- ... 749.l2649

Front fork mounted turn signal lights
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fork-LED-Turn- ... 749.l2649

Handlebar mounted switches
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-7-8-Univers ... 749.l2649

LED flasher module
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pin-12V-Flas ... 2749.l2649

The flasher relay and all the wiring was stuffed into the compartment below the USB socket. It was a tight fit but went OK.

I did need to add load resistors across the turn signal LEDs to make the flasher work properly. I found 150 ohm, 1/4W resistors worked well and don't get too hot.

The 12V brake signal was picked up by tapping into the brake switch wires. Note: the black wires coming from the lower harness are 12V from the dc-dc.

I also replaced the original wire on the tail light and switch to skinnier ones so they would fit easier.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Sep 17 2018 8:22pm

fechter wrote:
Sep 17 2018 8:42am
Since I can't seem to find any dirt to ride legally on within 50 miles of my house, I'm trying to make my Sur-ron more street survivable. I found a new tail light assembly that has brake, tail and turn signals all integrated into a single unit. This also came with a license plate holder which I needed too. The license plate looks like it will do a nice job of keeping road spray off the rear shock.

Img_0898A.jpg

The Sur-ron uses a 12V high signal on the brake switches, so adding a brake light was just a matter of tapping into the brake switch wires. Not sure what the amp rating of the brake switches is, but the LED brake light draws around 100mA, so I think it will hold up fine.

Img_0894A.jpg

I made a small angle bracket that fits the holes from the stock tail light bracket.

For the front, I found some LED flexible strip lights that wrap around the fork and are held on with a small zip tie and double sticky tape.

Img_0892A.jpg

These don't stick out, so won't get torn off easily and they are impressively bright. They also have a running light feature where they are both white until the turn signal is activated, then the active one turns amber and blinks.

Img_0893.jpg

To activate the turn signals, I found a replacement handlebar switch on eBay that worked well. It has the turn signal switch and horn button, along with a high/low headlight switch that I repurposed to be the Sport Mode switch. This will be the "cop switch" in case I ever get hassled about the top speed.

Img_0899.jpg

Since the new switch didn't have the mount for the speedometer, I made a new mount for the meter that is separate from the switch. I took a small piece of aluminum channel and stuck the meter to it with VHB sticky tape. The channel has holes for a zip tie that goes around the handlebars. This works out really well as it allows me to change the angle of the meter for better visibility but still holds it firmly.

Img_0888.jpg

Getting all the wires stuffed back into the "hairball" was a challenge. It helps a lot to remove the battery cover when working on this area.

Img_0880A.jpg

Coming next, new tires and rear-view mirrors.
Pretty awesome dude. Thanks for sharing this.

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Sep 17 2018 9:38pm

Pedal kit modeled. 1 down, too many more parts to go. :(
Attachments
Surron_pedal-kit_1.jpg
Surron_pedal-kit_2.jpg
Surron_pedal-kit_3.jpg
Surron_pedal-kit_4.jpg
Surron_pedal-kit_5.jpg

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by macribs » Sep 18 2018 3:15pm

Nice Jonah.

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Sep 18 2018 8:07pm

This would be a foot peg adapter part that would let you fit any kind of bike pedal of your desire....
Material CNC. Could be anodized any color of your choice...
Let me know if this is something that would interest you... once again, the more interest, the cheaper we can get them.
Attachments
2018-09-18 (1).jpg
2018-09-18 (2).jpg
2018-09-18 (3).jpg
2018-09-18.jpg

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Sep 18 2018 9:53pm

Rev_2 --> pedal adapters... :)
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Pedal_adapter_2.jpg
Pedal_adapter_3.jpg
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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by macribs » Sep 19 2018 5:04am

That is some quality renderings. You have put a lot of thoughts into this. I hope people see and recognize that and jump on this. We need active 3rd parties coming out with parts that is not available from Sur Ron. Heck this might be something that could be adapted for other frames as well. Perfect for converting hub drive build to mid drive maybe?

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Sep 19 2018 8:18am

macribs wrote:
Sep 19 2018 5:04am
That is some quality renderings. You have put a lot of thoughts into this. I hope people see and recognize that and jump on this. We need active 3rd parties coming out with parts that is not available from Sur Ron. Heck this might be something that could be adapted for other frames as well. Perfect for converting hub drive build to mid drive maybe?
hey thanks.

Well this is obviously conceptual phase atm. The next step with this is to have a few made and test them out... :) You never really know until you test something in real life. What seems like a good idea on paper, sometimes isn't in reality but I think these will work out nicely.
I'd like to make a small test batch, it's much cheaper and faster if I can do a group order, maybe 5-10 people. If anyone is interested, just PM me. Cheers.

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Sep 19 2018 2:41pm

Testing out the 3D prints....everything looks pretty good... seems feasible. #1. The parts fit great
#2. They fold back very nicely, the pedal would tend to deflect and rotate upwards also which is good.

Just wish I could hop on and give them a test...

I think the only downside is that they sit out about .75" further than a standard peg... not sure how that will feel in terms of stance or if it will effect performance. Again, sort of thing that needs to be tested first...
Attachments
DSC_2688.JPG
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DSC_2692.JPG
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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by bigbore » Sep 20 2018 2:42am

I think they are to much apart from the frame. I would build new mounts (the stock black piece) to the frame to move the pedals more in the center. On the right side it seems you have the space to do it.

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Sep 20 2018 9:59am

bigbore wrote:
Sep 20 2018 2:42am
I think they are to much apart from the frame. I would build new mounts (the stock black piece) to the frame to move the pedals more in the center. On the right side it seems you have the space to do it.
Yeah, I'm sort of hesitant now after seeing them on the bike, I think it "COULD" work like this but I know they would get caught hung up in stuff being that wide, which is not ideal. Good call on making new plates. I'll look into it, thanks for the feedback.

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by E-geezer » Sep 20 2018 12:44pm

You could have Shapeways print some in stainless to test.....
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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Sep 20 2018 12:50pm

E-geezer wrote:
Sep 20 2018 12:44pm
You could have Shapeways print some in stainless to test.....
Sure, but from a cost stand point, it's not really worth it. I can just get my manufacture to make prototypes via CNC.

but this will need to be re-worked, they sit too wide...it would work but I just don't feel comfortable with them sitting that wide...it can be done better. I'll have to create a custom bracket I guess, which makes for a more complex part *sigh. I wanted to try to keep this as simple as possible but dems are the breaks..

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by liveforphysics » Sep 20 2018 9:44pm

I think those would be amazing foot pegs.

I would try it on my FX or DSR too.
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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by skyungjae » Sep 27 2018 11:35am

fechter wrote:
Sep 17 2018 8:42am

Img_0898A.jpg

The Sur-ron uses a 12V high signal on the brake switches, so adding a brake light was just a matter of tapping into the brake switch wires. Not sure what the amp rating of the brake switches is, but the LED brake light draws around 100mA, so I think it will hold up fine.

Since I'm riding streets 99% of the time, I decided to do brake lights as well. I tried wiring them inline with the cut off sensors, but my LED strips put too much load on the switch. It seemed to work at first, but after a few pulls or holding the brake lever down, it would get stuck in the on position. At one point, the light wouldn't turn off at all. I thought I burnt out the switch, but after removing it and reinstalling it and adjusting the depth, it started to work again.
Brake Lights.JPG
Brake Lights.JPG (16.91 KiB) Viewed 699 times
I ended up using a Bosch 5 pin relay and powering the switch off the leads going to the USB port. So far, this has worked great. Each of my LED strips is 9 LEDs (18 total), I'm sure was much more current going through the brake sensor reed switch than your 6 LED brake light.

Others have mentioned that, since the brake sensor reed switch is so fragile, even using a coil type relay may wear it down and recommend using a solid state relay. I'm going to continue using my Bosch relay until someone shares a set up that is least abusive on the switch.
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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by n2mb » Sep 27 2018 12:46pm

skyungjae wrote:
Sep 27 2018 11:35am

Others have mentioned that, since the brake sensor reed switch is so fragile, even using a coil type relay may wear it down and recommend using a solid state relay. I'm going to continue using my Bosch relay until someone shares a set up that is least abusive on the switch.
I'd recommend a solid state relay, such as this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0058UY8M8/

It will draw 11 mA at 12V and will not have any inductive spikes that could damage the reed switch. You could further reduce the current draw to about 5mA by adding a series 1k resistor.

The relay is probably overkill, since it can switch 3A, and I doubt any of the brake lights are even remotely close to that. But, it's cheap enough.... There should be a similar, smaller solid state relay. I have one at home that I plan to use when I get some time...

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/19124 ... n1EALw_wcB

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