New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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raylo32   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Feb 10 2019 9:54pm

I made up a programming cable following the instructions on Eco Bike site, but I am having difficulty with the ST Link software. The main software tools installed easily but I can't get the drivers to work. My laptop is Win 10 x64. I copied all the windows files over from the link provided and ran USB Install in admin mode. But the ST V2 programmer just keeps flashing red when I plug in the USB. Anyone have any words of wisdom?

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Feb 11 2019 4:08am

raylo32 wrote:
Feb 10 2019 9:54pm
I made up a programming cable following the instructions on Eco Bike site, but I am having difficulty with the ST Link software. The main software tools installed easily but I can't get the drivers to work. My laptop is Win 10 x64. I copied all the windows files over from the link provided and ran USB Install in admin mode. But the ST V2 programmer just keeps flashing red when I plug in the USB. Anyone have any words of wisdom?
Have you tried flashing anyway? Mine is red until I flash then it turns green. When I flash with the commandline version it flashes red and never goes green.

raylo32   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Feb 11 2019 4:47am

I went to the ST website and got the drivers there and the device seems to be working now. The led is now steady red instead of flashing (which I believe is normal) and Windows reports the device is working properly. I updated the ST device firmware and that operation was successful so I think I am good to go. I configured the ST Link as per the instructional on Eco bike (STLink, USB, SWIM, STM8S105x4) but I haven't tried to read or flash the TSDZ2 yet. I'll get to that a bit later.

MallardQ   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by MallardQ » Feb 11 2019 6:10am

Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 10 2019 4:05pm
Hi,

Does anyone know how to remove the troque sensor ? ... so I can drill a hole into the housing behind it.
20190210_225032.jpg


Cheers !
Have you had a look at the manual? https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... MANUAL.pdf . If you've found some other source could you please share with me.

My torque sensor has seized with the gear(due to water ingress?) and it was my first time trying to regrease after about 300 mi. Absolute PITA.

Peetsyo   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Peetsyo » Feb 11 2019 6:12am

Bigwheel wrote:
Feb 10 2019 4:29pm
Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 10 2019 4:05pm
Hi,




I cannot use the motors torque arm to hold the motor in position , so maybe I can drill holes into the gear housing and fix the motor to frames chainguide mount (ISCG-05). I've got a full suspension frame , that's my only option.

Cheers !

No need to even do that. Just let the motor housing rest against your down tube and the rotational force will hold it up against there. You can put a piece of rubber there as a bumper so that the dt won't get damaged if it is an aluminum/carbon frame. Just make sure you use the two tab bb washer to prevent the motor from twisting side to side also.
It's a downhill frame. Letting it hold up against the dt will look weird and compromises ground clearance. There is room on the back and I would like to tilt it backwards

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 11 2019 6:14am

Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 11 2019 6:12am
It's a downhill frame. Letting it hold up against the dt will look weird and compromises ground clearance. There is room on the back and I would like to tilt it backwards
Please share pictures.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Strider   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Strider » Feb 11 2019 6:22am

With the normal software the TSDZ2 stops assisting at a cadence of about 90 Pedal RPM's.

From what I've learned in this topic is that with the open source software the TSDZ2 will support above 90 RPM.
Is that correct?

Further, from what i've understood is that a 52v battery is better for the TSDZ2 than a lower voltage battery + it also would help with supporting a higher cadence.

Therefore i'm planning to buy the Hailong 52v 17.5A battery with Samsung 18650 3.7V 3500mAh Cells. That that is 910wh (52Vx17.5A).

Will that work, is this a good decision? Or is it better to stick stick with a 48v battery.
I assume it won't work out of the box, and to get this working I first need to flash the engine.
Image

raylo32   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Feb 11 2019 7:43am

Strider, I bought my motor setup for 48V but decided to go 52V after all so I am in the same boat. I am ready to reflash it to make the changes but haven't done it yet. I just made the cable and installed the software. But I have been testing my bike as is with a 52V EGO battery and it works fine. The battery fuel gage isn't accurate but I am not sure there will be much else different after the reflash. Not sure that the change from 18 to 17 amps really matters all that much?

The vendors are selling "overdrive" versions that assist up to 100 or 110 RPM. I am not sure if those are different hardware or if that is also settable in the firmware. There is no upcharge for these models so I assume it is just firmware and that those settings are in there somewhere. I believe that the 28 mph speed limit would still kick in. You might could make the bike go faster by inputting a wheel diameter smaller than your actual. But that might have unintended consequences and besides, this motor isn't really powerful enough for much more.

Strider   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Strider » Feb 11 2019 8:24am

raylo32 wrote:
Feb 11 2019 7:43am
Strider, I bought my motor setup for 48V but decided to go 52V after all so I am in the same boat. I am ready to reflash it to make the changes but haven't done it yet. I just made the cable and installed the software. But I have been testing my bike as is with a 52V EGO battery and it works fine. The battery fuel gage isn't accurate but I am not sure there will be much else different after the reflash. Not sure that the change from 18 to 17 amps really matters all that much?

The vendors are selling "overdrive" versions that assist up to 100 or 110 RPM. I am not sure if those are different hardware or if that is also settable in the firmware. There is no upcharge for these models so I assume it is just firmware and that those settings are in there somewhere. I believe that the 28 mph speed limit would still kick in. You might could make the bike go faster by inputting a wheel diameter smaller than your actual. But that might have unintended consequences and besides, this motor isn't really powerful enough for much more.
Thanks for your reply! So 52v batteries will work by default on a TSDZ2 48v engine? That's awesome! Then there is no reason anymore to go for a 48v battery as a 52v battery put's less stress on the engine.

Are you planning to install the new firmware? And may i ask which vendors are selling these overdrive versions? I expect that only the firmware is updated.

raylo32   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Feb 11 2019 9:19am

OK, I just flashed my TSDZ2. First I tried to manually change the settings as above and it looked like it worked but it didn't really. The fuel gage indicated my half discharged battery state properly but the motor would not run on fully charged 52V battery which for my EGOs come off the charger at ~58V. It would just spin to 2 mph then cut out, I am guessing the default high voltage cutout in the 48V firmware was still in there. I hadn't run into that issue in my earlier testing because I intentionally used a partially discharged EGO battery to be safe whilst on the 48 V configuration. The one I used started at about 54V and dropped to 51V during the testing.

So I followed the directions on Eco Bikes to reflash the entire 52V programmemory and datamemory firmware with the files they linked. They posted a programming update (linked here: https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... romscratch) that indicated simple manual changes might not be effective on later units. That seems to be the case. Anyway, this was easy peasy and everything working great now, including the fuel gage.

One note on the programming that might save a bit of confusion. The Google Drive site has both S19 and hex versions of the firmwares. I used the s19 versions with the ST Link programming software running on my Windows 10 notebook. It looks like I could have used either.
Last edited by raylo32 on Feb 11 2019 11:59am, edited 1 time in total.

raylo32   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Feb 11 2019 9:52am

These guys have the overdrive versions as a no cost option. That's where I got my kit. Good service and very responsive... just takes them a week or 2 to get the kit out the door supposedly due to the time it takes to queue the orders, program them and package them.... although the programming is really easy and takes about a minute. But the speed extension cable I got from them later to make the programming cable came in 2 days.

https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/t ... 2228185170

Strider   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Strider » Feb 11 2019 12:30pm

raylo32 wrote:
Feb 11 2019 9:19am
OK, I just flashed my TSDZ2. First I tried to manually change the settings as above and it looked like it worked but it didn't really. The fuel gage indicated my half discharged battery state properly but the motor would not run on fully charged 52V battery which for my EGOs come off the charger at ~58V. It would just spin to 2 mph then cut out, I am guessing the default high voltage cutout in the 48V firmware was still in there. I hadn't run into that issue in my earlier testing because I intentionally used a partially discharged EGO battery to be safe whilst on the 48 V configuration. The one I used started at about 54V and dropped to 51V during the testing.

So I followed the directions on Eco Bikes to reflash the entire 52V programmemory and datamemory firmware with the files they linked. They posted a programming update (linked here: https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... romscratch) that indicated simple manual changes might not be effective on later units. That seems to be the case. Anyway, this was easy peasy and everything working great now, including the fuel gage.

One note on the programming that might save a bit of confusion. The Google Drive site has both S19 and hex versions of the firmwares. I used the s19 versions with the ST Link programming software running on my Windows 10 notebook. It looks like I could have used either.
Thanks! I'm also now wondering the following:

1) What is the difference between 52v and 52v O/D (overdrive)? According to the below table the cadans is much higher on the 52v O/D version. Is 52v O/D a battery with a higher voltage? On the google drive i also only see files for 52v, i don't see .hex files for 52v O/D.

Image

2) Does using the software from eco-bikes mean that you can't use the software from casainho?
I mean, you either use the software from Casainho or the one from Eco-bikes? That would mean that in the firmware from Casainho you also should be able to adjust the voltage. No idea where that is possible.

3) To get the 52v battery working properly on the TSDZ2 motor, only flashing the firmware on the motor itself is enough, also on the display unit is not needed?

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 11 2019 12:45pm

Did you invest your time to read the project site?? Because what you are asking is clearly there.
Strider wrote:
Feb 11 2019 12:30pm
raylo32 wrote:
Feb 11 2019 9:19am
OK, I just flashed my TSDZ2. First I tried to manually change the settings as above and it looked like it worked but it didn't really. The fuel gage indicated my half discharged battery state properly but the motor would not run on fully charged 52V battery which for my EGOs come off the charger at ~58V. It would just spin to 2 mph then cut out, I am guessing the default high voltage cutout in the 48V firmware was still in there. I hadn't run into that issue in my earlier testing because I intentionally used a partially discharged EGO battery to be safe whilst on the 48 V configuration. The one I used started at about 54V and dropped to 51V during the testing.

So I followed the directions on Eco Bikes to reflash the entire 52V programmemory and datamemory firmware with the files they linked. They posted a programming update (linked here: https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... romscratch) that indicated simple manual changes might not be effective on later units. That seems to be the case. Anyway, this was easy peasy and everything working great now, including the fuel gage.

One note on the programming that might save a bit of confusion. The Google Drive site has both S19 and hex versions of the firmwares. I used the s19 versions with the ST Link programming software running on my Windows 10 notebook. It looks like I could have used either.
Thanks! I'm also now wondering the following:

1) What is the difference between 52v and 52v O/D (overdrive)? According to the below table the cadans is much higher on the 52v O/D version. Is 52v O/D a battery with a higher voltage? On the google drive i also only see files for 52v, i don't see .hex files for 52v O/D.

Image

2) Does using the software from eco-bikes mean that you can't use the software from casainho?
I mean, you either use the software from Casainho or the one from Eco-bikes? That would mean that in the firmware from Casainho you also should be able to adjust the voltage. No idea where that is possible.

3) To get the 52v battery working properly on the TSDZ2 motor, only flashing the firmware on the motor itself is enough, also on the display unit is not needed?
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

raylo32   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Feb 11 2019 1:27pm

Strider you can use any firmware you want. I went with what the vendor recommended to get this thing up and running and it seems to work just fine. You could always change over to the open source stuff later. I haven't looked into it yet but I assume it provides more tunability and I will probably get into that later after seeing how she runs stock. As for the "overdrive" near as I can tell is that alls it does is provide assist to a higher RPM. The 52V standard is 100 RPM, not 90 and that is fast enough. You might want higher if you are running a smaller chainring but you still have the 28 mph speed limit. I hit that spinning pretty good in 7th (out of eight) gear with my 48T ring and in 8th gear it is a more comfortable cadence, so I really don't need the overdrive. YMMV.

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 11 2019 1:35pm

Girlfriend wanted a second ebike, this time a city ebike. Installing TSDZ2 was quick and simple and works very well in this bicycles. Now I just need to put the brakes working very well as this this ebike is fast!!

And the battery is not the final one, we are waiting for a custom pack for the middle of the frame (3.6 amps/hour cells).
My girlfriend will use this ebike to go to work and gym, about 8 kms far from home.

I think this is my electric bicycle number 6 using TSDZ2 :-)

Imagepicture sharing
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

knutselmaaster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Feb 11 2019 1:55pm

That is the decathlon bike that has lately been recalled, be careful!

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 11 2019 1:56pm

knutselmaaster wrote:
Feb 11 2019 1:55pm
That is the decathlon bike that has lately been recalled, be careful!
Thanks for the alert.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Feb 11 2019 1:57pm


Bigwheel   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bigwheel » Feb 11 2019 2:56pm

Nice Parrilla Casainho! :bigthumb:
Screen Shot 2019-02-11 at 11.54.39 AM.png
Screen Shot 2019-02-11 at 11.54.39 AM.png (94.1 KiB) Viewed 163 times

raylo32   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Feb 11 2019 4:06pm

My Super Shark 11.5Ah battery from EM3EV came today and mounted easily in my size XL frame. Pic here with the Shark and the EGO 5Ah "range extender". Can also just ride with only one or the other.
Attachments
E-bike_both_batteries.jpg
E-bike_both_batteries.jpg (115.22 KiB) Viewed 147 times

Strider   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Strider » Feb 11 2019 5:45pm

casainho wrote:
Feb 11 2019 12:45pm
Did you invest your time to read the project site?? Because what you are asking is clearly there.

Cut..
Thanks Raylo32!

@casainho, I checked your wiki again and you are right it is clearly described. With the "Number of cells in series" setting it is possible to configure the setup for a 52v battery.

I noticed that in the 'TSDZ2 Opensource firmware review' from jbalatutube that in version 16 the high cadence option only works for 36v motors.

In menu 11:Various|Submenu of your wiki i saw that it is in the current version possible to set the Motor voltage type setting to:
Set (2) (EXPERIMENTAL) for the 48 V brushless motor, high cadence mode. Maybe not good for the motor, use at your own risk. Probably only suitable for the 36 V motor.

What does this high cadence mode exactly mean and why do you think it is not good for the motor? Specifically, till what kind of a cadence will you receive support?

And last but not least, thanks for all the hard and amazing work!! :bigthumb:

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 11 2019 6:47pm

Strider wrote:
Feb 11 2019 5:45pm
casainho wrote:
Feb 11 2019 12:45pm
Did you invest your time to read the project site?? Because what you are asking is clearly there.

Cut..
Thanks Raylo32!

@casainho, I checked your wiki again and you are right it is clearly described. With the "Number of cells in series" setting it is possible to configure the setup for a 52v battery.

I noticed that in the 'TSDZ2 Opensource firmware review' from jbalatutube that in version 16 the high cadence option only works for 36v motors.

In menu 11:Various|Submenu of your wiki i saw that it is in the current version possible to set the Motor voltage type setting to:
Set (2) (EXPERIMENTAL) for the 48 V brushless motor, high cadence mode. Maybe not good for the motor, use at your own risk. Probably only suitable for the 36 V motor.

What does this high cadence mode exactly mean and why do you think it is not good for the motor? Specifically, till what kind of a cadence will you receive support?

And last but not least, thanks for all the hard and amazing work!! :bigthumb:
You will need to search and read the forum messages that the developers and/or users wrote when they developed/or tested that feature.

From technical point, I think it is the same as overdrive that shops you guys are talking about, do sell. You can try ask them what means overdrive and share with us their answers so we will know and be able to compare.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Peetsyo   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Peetsyo » Feb 12 2019 6:48am

casainho wrote:
Feb 11 2019 6:14am
Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 11 2019 6:12am
It's a downhill frame. Letting it hold up against the dt will look weird and compromises ground clearance. There is room on the back and I would like to tilt it backwards
Please share pictures.
20190131_154450.jpg

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 12 2019 7:04am

Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 12 2019 6:48am
casainho wrote:
Feb 11 2019 6:14am
Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 11 2019 6:12am
It's a downhill frame. Letting it hold up against the dt will look weird and compromises ground clearance. There is room on the back and I would like to tilt it backwards
Please share pictures.
20190131_154450.jpg
See if you get any ideas on the wiki -- I am being installing on full suspension bicycles: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... on-bicycle
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

dameri   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Feb 12 2019 11:46am

Be careful when orderin batteries from china.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzzfzGJpUS8

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