My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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brake034   1 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by brake034 » Nov 09 2019 7:52pm

FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 09 2019 9:15am
Nobody has demanded or even expected that Frey comes here to solve things. This is FYI -type of communication to all other owners of the bike. Don’t worry, I assume people are clever enough to handle the warranty negotiations in AliBaba.

Are you signalling that we should hush things up?
If the discussion is about a potentially weak rear hub, that gives way when ridden hard, than this discussion is a good thing to have. The Frey team can consider these claims and come up with a remedy in direct communication or even here on the forum.

It seems that Frey is the only ebike manufacturer that is actually engaged in directly communicating with it's users, here on this platform, via direct e-mail and other channels.
The main stream, major ebike manufacturers all use their distribution channels to handle claims and are not engaged at all in direct communications, especially not when it comes to claims of which I see many on various Facebook channels.

That's part of what Frey is all about, wanting to be a co-making, co-creating community of riders all over the world, not just sell ebikes!

Where things could go south is when claimers start using the public nature of this platform in order to pressurize Frey on the financial part of their claim. This can affect the technical discussion negatively and could cause Frey (in this case) to walk away.
If this happens often it could cause Frey to get media shy and no longer participate on this platform, which would be a loss.

Best to discuss the financial part of the claim off forum, either via email or the ordering platform used.
Frey brand ambassador.....

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Nov 10 2019 1:36pm

I’d also say that the fact we’re on iteration v5.0 of the AM1000 is testament that Frey have listened to feedback from customers and real life usage of their bikes to continue to innovate and develop the platform. The new EX and other models build on this iterative development methodology.

Yes I am a little biased probably as I’m now acting as direct sales point for prospective customers in the UK but for any minor issues I’ve had, Frey have been extremely response and resolved issues without quibble. I’m on quite a few other eBike forums in the UK and there are so many reports of issues with other bikes too (your Brose, Shimano, Haibikes etc). Let’s try to stay behind Frey on this forum and help guide them in the development to what we want to see in the future. They are listening and improving all the time. Thanks guys.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 10 2019 3:18pm

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Nov 10 2019 1:36pm
I’d also say that the fact we’re on iteration v5.0 of the AM1000 is testament that Frey have listened to feedback from customers and real life usage of their bikes to continue to innovate and develop the platform. The new EX and other models build on this iterative development methodology.

Yes I am a little biased probably as I’m now acting as direct sales point for prospective customers in the UK but for any minor issues I’ve had, Frey have been extremely response and resolved issues without quibble. I’m on quite a few other eBike forums in the UK and there are so many reports of issues with other bikes too (your Brose, Shimano, Haibikes etc). Let’s try to stay behind Frey on this forum and help guide them in the development to what we want to see in the future. They are listening and improving all the time. Thanks guys.
I still think my FAT1000 was a good purchase. Price-point was excellent. You can maybe understand being a bit upset for finding out the hard way AliBaba-warranty isn’t the same thing as European warranty and having to cover part of the damages from my own wallet.

Best thing Frey could do in this situation is to maybe send an example of each of their rear wheel to their current partner or a specific distributor service in Europe. Then if these failures replicate themselves as unfortunately is quite likely we could atleast get our replacements within a few days. The cost of this would be negligent because there are only a few sizes of rear wheels.

shap08   100 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by shap08 » Nov 10 2019 10:42pm

Quick questions if anyone can help, I got send the wrong charger, it was US AC input and not AUS. Can I cut the plug and wire it onto this charger?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3305465 ... b201603_52

FlyingFinn   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 11 2019 8:32am

shap08 wrote:
Nov 10 2019 10:42pm
Quick questions if anyone can help, I got send the wrong charger, it was US AC input and not AUS. Can I cut the plug and wire it onto this charger?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3305465 ... b201603_52
Do you have the 48V or the 52V battery? If you have the 48V battery which is the normal one that comes with the bike YOU RISK FIRE AND EXPLOSION!

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Nov 11 2019 9:36am

shap08 wrote:
Nov 10 2019 10:42pm
Quick questions if anyone can help, I got send the wrong charger, it was US AC input and not AUS. Can I cut the plug and wire it onto this charger?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3305465 ... b201603_52
Hi shap08,
Hope you're enjoying the HT1000, let us know how it handles with the moto tyres and 52v system.

I assume you're talking about the AC input here.
The charger takes AC inputs from 110V-260V AC, 47 to 63Hz so there you won't get any problems as AUS is 230V 50Hz. So yes you can wire it to your AUS connector if you have one. Alternatively, if you have any old PC power supply cable those can be directly plugged into the charger as well, hence no cutting.

Yes, this is a 14S (58.8Vmax) charger designed for "52v" batteries.

Map Paddy   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Map Paddy » Nov 11 2019 12:01pm

I've got a ht1000 and want to swap to am1000 has anyone done this think it should be pretty simple if I just buy frame and shock from Frey Or maybe a different frame that I can use same battery in ohh and I also had a hub failure frey sent me new hub but I instead went with new wheel set that I got on sale still happy with bike overall just need rear suspension as riding progressing

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Nov 11 2019 4:25pm

Unfortunately, on August 3 Ivy announced Frey will not sell separate frames anymore (viewtopic.php?f=28&t=91035&start=1475)

formula101   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Nov 11 2019 4:34pm

I wish flyingfinn would go take a flying f--k off this forum. How does he get away with creating endless dupe accounts?

Fortunately, there are well informed rational people in this thread, so I'm thankful for that.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 11 2019 4:44pm

formula101 wrote:
Nov 11 2019 4:34pm
I wish flyingfinn would go take a flying f--k off this forum. How does he get away with creating endless dupe accounts?

Fortunately, there are well informed rational people in this thread, so I'm thankful for that.
I’m just starting to like you my darling. Let’s ride together with our bikes into the sunset ❤️❤️❤️😘

bugnut   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by bugnut » Jan 10 2020 7:19pm

Great to see that this thread has been unlocked. Thankyou

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Richard N   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Richard N » Jan 11 2020 1:55am

This thread is a wonderful source of information for a great factory e-bike, I'm glad it's up and running!

:thumb:

My HT1000
IMG_20190516_103228.jpg
IMG_20190516_103228.jpg (129.94 KiB) Viewed 903 times

Tjeska   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Jan 11 2020 4:38am

It's alive!

Thank god, hopefully we can keep this thread open now!
To much info on these bikes, without it I wouldn't ordered a Frey bike.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Jan 11 2020 6:25pm

Best policy for the landlord is to close the whole complex down when a cocroach is spotted...

mewanderinghome   10 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by mewanderinghome » Jan 13 2020 1:27am

Hardcore wrote:
Sep 27 2019 2:08am

Attached a video of the 2020 Frey EX bike. It's a fantastic bike to ride.
Hi @Hardcore - After viewing a couple videos, I'd say we have similar riding preferences in that I tend to ride singletrack pretty fast and love a little air but generally don't do huge drops (don't mean to imply you don't- just hadn't seen that in 2 vids). This will be my first eMTB (have only ridden a few ebikes and never on single track). Trying to decide whether to buy the AM1000, EX, or even M600. I will probably customize the bikes further (particularly with regard to drivetrain) regardless of which frame/battery/motor I get. What do you think are the pros & cons of each of those bikes, and which would you choose? What components would you upgrade/add aftermarket (major & minor components)? I probably wouldn't get the extra battery on the EX as I don't think I'd ride with it. On the AM1000 I might also choose the very base model with the smallest 48v17.5ah battery for less top-heavy weight/narrowest profile (I don't expect needing tremendous range), and just upgrade the components that need it. I will probably end up using this bike to commute some too (no need for rack & panniers though). Other riders who've ridden multiple models of Frey bikes please feel free to weigh in too.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by mewanderinghome » Jan 13 2020 1:45am

barbarossa wrote:
Aug 13 2019 1:03pm
i have an additional cable for my GPS tracker directly connected to the battery cable and a self made connection from the controller cable (5V+/ground/motor off) to the rear brake pressure sensor and my gearsensor incl. Higo plug. the gps tracker itself is mounted at the inner plastic motor cover. the backup GPS-battery 1000mAh lipo (in case of stolen battery, charged by the main battery) is between plastic cover/gps tracker and motor (but gps tracker and backup battery i can mount after mounting the motor).
@Barbarossa I'm very interested in hard-wiring a GPS tracker too. Can you link to the tracker you bought and service you use for tracking it? Also, if you happen to be bored and want to post more photos of how you mounted it that would be awesome. But primarily I'm wondering what tracker to buy/service to use and I'm glad someone has already successfully done this. Thank you!

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Jan 13 2020 2:02am

mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 13 2020 1:27am

Trying to decide whether to buy the AM1000, EX, or even M600.What do you think are the pros & cons of each of those bikes, and which would you choose? What components would you upgrade/add aftermarket (major & minor components)? Other riders who've ridden multiple models of Frey bikes please feel free to weigh in too.
Hello mewanderinghome. I’ve ridden all the models too but I’m not as good as Hardcore at the big air stuff. All the models are quite different and I guess it depends on your budget as well. You can upgrade the bike you buy from Frey directly anyway - maybe upgrade from the Yari to Lyric front fork, ensure you get the gear sensor that momentarily cuts the power to the motor when you change gear, get a few spare derailleur hangers (although I’ve not broken one yet) and you can also order a rear rack, lights, mudguards and they will come fitted.

The M600 is a bit lighter than the EX and AM1000 but you will definitely notice the power difference. It is a fantastic bike though and I rode it a lot in China. I bought an AM1000 so I’m a bit biased towards that but if the EX was available when I was buying my own eBike then I would have had that one. The AM1000 is well developed now and has been refined through the last 3 years as it’s now on iteration v5. The EX has even further better developed suspension linkages at the rear. The EX is also a very nice compromise in terms of being able to run it with just the one internal battery or also adding on the external piggy back battery for when you need some huge range - don’t forget with two 14ah batteries that’s a whopping 28ah capability.

My latest video is a bit of a mash up of various edits but all three bikes are truly wonderful for a variety of mixed riding. Another good upgrade to consider would be a good quality dropper post and perhaps go tubeless with the tyres.

All the best and please do ask if you have any other questions.


mewanderinghome   10 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by mewanderinghome » Jan 13 2020 3:09am

@Deafcat and @cscscs: did you two ever get any farther with engineering a replacement to this weak link in the Ultra? Do you still feel it's necessary? Should I order a spare part with the bike and if so can you point to which part in a photo so I can ask Frey for the replacement? Thanks for your input.
cscscs wrote:
Aug 16 2019 7:45pm
Deafcat wrote:
Aug 16 2019 12:59pm
cscscs wrote:
Aug 15 2019 11:03pm
Deafcat wrote:
Aug 13 2019 11:17pm
There are actually two one-way clutches in the Ultra motor, a three-pawl freewheel for pedal input, and a one-way roller clutch or sprag clutch for the chainring output shaft. I've heard of that output clutch wearing or failing due to too large of a chainring and bad riding (too high of momentary torque loads), failure of the pedal freewheel only possible from too much pedal load as mentioned.

I've yet to damage either of them, though I'd like to replace the pedal freewheel with a sprag roller clutch to get rid of the noise... Onyx hubs on the bike so the only freewheel noise comes from motor. Maybe something I will re-engineer on next disassembly, worth it to have the parts drawn up anyway for community reference.
I've been thinking of retrofitting a sprag in replacement of the freewheel - I'll be interested in assessing the feasibility of doing that - let's collaborate on that.
Be nice to replace both the freewheel and the one way clutch with better parts. Misumi has NSK, NTN and house brand components which all look like drawn cup variety, McMaster also has some expensive options (proper sprags).

Sprags are more expensive to manufacture but obviously perform better compared to drawn cup roller clutches, which use ridges in the ID of the bearing housing to facilitate the torque transmission in one direction. In a sprag clutch, the moving elements themselves perform the torque locking, but they require both the exterior housing, and the inner shaft, to be strong hardened steel with no give... Hence the price hike.

Example part from McMaster to put into perspective, $160 USD for a sprag clutch max rated for 165 ft/lb, 16mm wide with an OD of 62mm.
I for one would be willing to spend $160 on a sprag to replace the pedal-crank freewheel; but that would not likely be the only cost. I'm curious about the feasibility - I'm not sure how the ultra freewheel is assembled - I'm guessing the outer element of the freewheel is pressed into the primary gear?? If that assumption is correct, then the questions are: 1) Can the freewheel be pulled out? 2) Is there a suitable sprag available that will fit the ID of the gear and the OD of the pedal crank shaft? And last but not least, a means of locking the sprag to the inner and outer elements would need to be provided

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Jan 13 2020 3:29am

mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 13 2020 3:09am
@Deafcat and @cscscs: did you two ever get any farther with engineering a replacement to this weak link in the Ultra? Do you still feel it's necessary? Should I order a spare part with the bike and if so can you point to which part in a photo so I can ask Frey for the replacement? Thanks for your input.
mewanderinghome, I’m 1,100 miles in on my AM1000 and no issues to report. It’s been ridden pretty hard as well.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Jan 13 2020 5:13pm

FlyingFinn wrote:
Jan 11 2020 6:25pm
Best policy for the landlord is to close the whole complex down when a cocroach is spotted...
It's still trying to cover it's tracks... :roll:

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by mewanderinghome » Jan 14 2020 3:45am

tl;dr: Alfine 8 IGH- will it last with Ultra?

Think I've decided to stick with the AM1000. Ordered it right at the end of the US group buy a week or so ago, but I've been researching upgrades since. One upgrade I've asked Frey about (no response yet other than to say she'll get back to me soon) is whether they can provide a stronger rear hub, since apparently the torque on this motor loves to chew them up. I was looking at a DT Swiss H1900 rear wheel/hub to go along with an SRAM EX1 cassette, but realized that for quite a bit less money, I could finally try out an IGH, which also serves to replace the potentially insufficient rear hub.

After reading a detailed article about the strongest IGHs for ebikes (https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kit-igh/), I"m leaning toward an Alfine 8spd, possibly with belt drive. I could maybe stretch to get the strongest (Rohloff) but I question whether it's really 6 times as good to match 6x expensive (and like the author I don't think I'll need 14 gears on an ebike, & don't relish shifting so much). I would consider the Nuvinci N380 which is apparently expected to be a little more durable than the Alfine 8 and has a bit more gear range, but I don't love the idea of increased drag of a CVT, and I think I would simply prefer actual gears. However I would get the N380 over the Alfine 8 if it's the difference between surviving the Ultra motor of course.

What do riders here think? Anyone running IGH on the AM1000?

The main question is will it last in my situation. I think it might because I've always babied my drivetrains since my earliest days with a cheap mtb. I always let up on my pedal strokes when shifting, except in very rare cases where I misjudge the gear I'll need to climb a long hill and have to do a hard shift toward the end of it when my speed has slowed too far. I think that rare situation will only be even rarer if I have a 1000W motor helping my fairly strong legs. And in those super rare situations, I'm not opposed to babying it by jumping off the bike and walking it to the crest of the hill in walk mode, rather than risk shredding my IGH. So I really think it will truly never or almost never shifted under much load. However, the internals would be subject to high speed single track jarring, and maybe that alone rules it out. I don't know bc I've never ridden IGH. I do like the idea of never again catching the derailleur on a rock here in super rocky Arizona. Couldn't ever get myself to commit to IGH on my regular mtb because I think I'd miss the ride feel of a cassette, but I think I'll care less with a motor when I'm already giving up a lot of feel by going so much heavier with an eMTB.

Finally, does anyone know of a competing belt drive to Gates? Does anyone see any issue with running belt drive to an IGH on the AM1000? What tooth counts would you recommend? Thanks in advance

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Jan 15 2020 2:18am

Could someone check for me which kind of Rockshox token the (optional) Lyric on a AM1000 takes?

I'm kind of confused which version of the Lyric they put on the bike?
Image

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Jan 15 2020 4:39am

Tjeska wrote:
Jan 15 2020 2:18am
Could someone check for me which kind of Rockshox token the (optional) Lyric on a AM1000 takes?

I'm kind of confused which version of the Lyric they put on the bike?
Image
I’ve got the Lyric on my AM1000 - not sure exactly what I need to look at but if you tell me I can check later and confirm you back.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Jan 15 2020 5:26am

Can I setup the AM1000 with a rear rack and full sized fenders?

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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ecyclist » Jan 15 2020 12:42pm

formula101 wrote:
Jan 15 2020 5:26am
Can I setup the AM1000 with a rear rack and full sized fenders?
For how much weight?
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

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