New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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feketehegyi   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by feketehegyi » Jan 10 2021 11:30am

casainho wrote:
Jan 10 2021 8:04am
That is crazy :-) why the interest of such idea? I must say that locally we have a very slow old train in parallel to a road, connecting 2
Nothing special. It was on my bucket list. I'm happy that you've enjoyed it.
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/wptmvideos ... =0&sort=dd
DIY TSDZ2 VOAMCA firmware: https://github.com/wptm/voamca . Android app via bluetooth for this VOAMCA: http://wptm.hu/ebmdisplay/ DIY Bluetooth module for the TSDZ2: https://github.com/wptm/tsdz2_bluetooth

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Location: Bucks, England

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Jan 10 2021 4:33pm

beemac wrote:
Jan 10 2021 11:04am
Anyone found a source for the thin ring seal that sits in the groove of the CSK30 bearing under the spider? I broke mine today and whilst i've temporarily fixed it with a dab of superglue I'd like to find a source for replacement. CSK30's with the groove don't appear to be supplied with the ring seal from what I can see.
Do you really need an O Ring. I've been fitting non grooved CSK30's and simply putting a very light ring of silicone gasket seal around the outer part of the bearing where it meets the spider.

I rebuilt one some time back that had had water damage and simply put a heavy layer of waterproof grease in there. I took the spider off the other day and it was still intact and no water ingress after a year of some pretty heavy UK mud and puddles.

beemac   100 mW

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Location: Bristol, UK

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by beemac » Jan 11 2021 12:29pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Jan 10 2021 4:33pm
beemac wrote:
Jan 10 2021 11:04am
Anyone found a source for the thin ring seal that sits in the groove of the CSK30 bearing under the spider? I broke mine today and whilst i've temporarily fixed it with a dab of superglue I'd like to find a source for replacement. CSK30's with the groove don't appear to be supplied with the ring seal from what I can see.
Do you really need an O Ring. I've been fitting non grooved CSK30's and simply putting a very light ring of silicone gasket seal around the outer part of the bearing where it meets the spider.

I rebuilt one some time back that had had water damage and simply put a heavy layer of waterproof grease in there. I took the spider off the other day and it was still intact and no water ingress after a year of some pretty heavy UK mud and puddles.
Hi -thanks very much. I did consider whether I could replace it with a ring of silicone or similar so good to know there are alternative solutions that have worked - especially in UK weather!

ilu   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Jan 11 2021 3:48pm

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Nov 05 2020 6:07pm
mctubster wrote:
Nov 05 2020 5:10pm
Make sure your battery cutoff voltage is set correctly.
Also are you talking seconds or minutes?
i believe it is set properly for the 52V battery (Samsung 35E 14S 4P), anyways, I had like an 80% charge when this was happening.

last leg coming home today, I noticed that sometimes 'motor power' would flatline at 180W or some other kind of random value, yet I could intentionally modulate my "human power" all over the place, from less than 100W to around 220 or 240W. then suddenly, I'd be getting the right pookah for the power assist level I'd set (I customized the power assist levels to just 10 rather than 20 and have it set so 4 is a good happy medium, 5 or 6 is extra boost up a hill when I'm tired, and 2 or 3 is good for the flats when I don't want to push my speed too hard. 3 gives me motor power about 2X human power, 4 is more like 3X, and 5 is more like 4X, all powers in watts, and no, I've not calibrated the torque sensor, just using the defaults there the way it came from eco-ebike, who programmed it for me.

as far as how long it misbehaves, its kinda random. sometimes its 3 or 4 or 5 full turns of the cranks, sometimes a fair bit more (10-15 full turns at maybe 60 or 75 cadence). carrying a 1L Hydraflask, and a 9 lb Kryptonite chain my pannier today, climbing the 8% grade I live up was a beating when the boost cut out. I'm not sure I can see how it could be an external wiring issue, as the display never reset, the speed and cadence and human power were always reading correctly.
Did you figure out what was the cause of this problem? I'm currently having very similar behaviour with my motor.

Andrew707   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Andrew707 » Jan 13 2021 2:27am

Hello,

I'm doing my second TSDZ2 build and once again I have a problem securing the motor to the frame.
My bike has internally routed cables which come out at the bottom next to the bottom bracket. There's additional piece of aluminum welded at the bottom of down tube where the opening for cables is. The motor barely fit in (but it did fit!). Now I have to secure it with two bolts and aluminum wedge at the back. The problem is that because of down tube opening I can't move motor to the left at all therefore the aluminum wedge doesn't fit in. What would you suggest to do in this case? What if I don't mount the wedge at all? If I understand correctly it should prevent the motor from going to the upper left. In my case the motor is already leaning against the frame opening at the bottom. Do you think it would be strong enough to hold the motor forces? Am I risking damaging my frame?

Here are some pictures so it's a bit easier to understand what I'm talking about: https://imgur.com/a/LmzN9kx

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jan 13 2021 3:04am

Andrew707 wrote:
Jan 13 2021 2:27am
Hello,

I'm doing my second TSDZ2 build and once again I have a problem securing the motor to the frame.
My bike has internally routed cables which come out at the bottom next to the bottom bracket. There's additional piece of aluminum welded at the bottom of down tube where the opening for cables is. The motor barely fit in (but it did fit!). Now I have to secure it with two bolts and aluminum wedge at the back. The problem is that because of down tube opening I can't move motor to the left at all therefore the aluminum wedge doesn't fit in. What would you suggest to do in this case? What if I don't mount the wedge at all? If I understand correctly it should prevent the motor from going to the upper left. In my case the motor is already leaning against the frame opening at the bottom. Do you think it would be strong enough to hold the motor forces? Am I risking damaging my frame?

Here are some pictures so it's a bit easier to understand what I'm talking about: https://imgur.com/a/LmzN9kx
You need to be creative!! See the creativity for some full suspension bicycles - How to install TSDZ2 on a full suspension bicycle:

https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ ... on-bicycle
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

ilu   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Jan 13 2021 5:52am

Andrew707 wrote:
Jan 13 2021 2:27am
What would you suggest to do in this case? What if I don't mount the wedge at all? If I understand correctly it should prevent the motor from going to the upper left. In my case the motor is already leaning against the frame opening at the bottom. Do you think it would be strong enough to hold the motor forces? Am I risking damaging my frame?

Here are some pictures so it's a bit easier to understand what I'm talking about: https://imgur.com/a/LmzN9kx
In this case I would simply fix a steel corner support like this attached to similar but shorter bolts as in your last picture. Of course you may need to drill bigger holes and use washers to get a proper alignment for the piece.

Andrew707   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Andrew707 » Jan 13 2021 10:58pm

casainho wrote:
Jan 13 2021 3:04am
You need to be creative!! See the creativity for some full suspension bicycles - How to install TSDZ2 on a full suspension bicycle:
https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ ... on-bicycle
Wow this is really creative! :o
ilu wrote:
Jan 13 2021 5:52am
In this case I would simply fix a steel corner support like this attached to similar but shorter bolts as in your last picture. Of course you may need to drill bigger holes and use washers to get a proper alignment for the piece.
Thanks for an advice! I've bought some corner support and washers. Will try to make this work. Will post picture once done! :)

Heisenberg60   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Heisenberg60 » Jan 14 2021 2:26am

Hey guy`s,

i`ve a question about the TSDZ.
first of all, im now on 800km with my drive and i`m very pleased with it.
I use it mostly for commute to work and trails in the woods/fields, no real problems so far :D
I made the following changes:

-OSF
-replaced the seals on the axis with sealed ballbearings to reduce transverse load on the sprague-clutch.
-applied thermal pads arround the motor
-applied new lube on all gears and seals.

But here`s the problem:
Some thing i noticed is, that the battery-throttle onsets very early.
@50% Battery i just get 50% of my max. power output, is this normal ?
i thought that lithium-batteries usually keep their power output constant until arroud ~ 30%, a linear power reduction seems a little unrealistic. I have an LG-battery pack, so i assume that the cells sould be quite ok.

I think it might be one of the following points:
-there is an option in the OSF which i didn`t set up correctly
-the BMS of the battery
-contact resistance from the battery to the motor

has anyone made similar experience and might be able to help ?

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jan 14 2021 3:00am

Heisenberg60 wrote:
Jan 14 2021 2:26am
Hey guy`s,

i`ve a question about the TSDZ.
first of all, im now on 800km with my drive and i`m very pleased with it.
I use it mostly for commute to work and trails in the woods/fields, no real problems so far :D
I made the following changes:

-OSF
-replaced the seals on the axis with sealed ballbearings to reduce transverse load on the sprague-clutch.
-applied thermal pads arround the motor
-applied new lube on all gears and seals.

But here`s the problem:
Some thing i noticed is, that the battery-throttle onsets very early.
@50% Battery i just get 50% of my max. power output, is this normal ?
i thought that lithium-batteries usually keep their power output constant until arroud ~ 30%, a linear power reduction seems a little unrealistic. I have an LG-battery pack, so i assume that the cells sould be quite ok.

I think it might be one of the following points:
-there is an option in the OSF which i didn`t set up correctly
-the BMS of the battery
-contact resistance from the battery to the motor

has anyone made similar experience and might be able to help ?
After you install our OpenSource firmware v1.1.0, enable the Field Weakening feature you will feel a big boost on the bicycle wheel!!
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Adarsh881   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Adarsh881 » Jan 14 2021 6:30am

Wapous wrote:
Dec 30 2020 8:36pm
For many of us, the time has come for a good cleaning and refurbishment of our TSDZ2. This often involves the replacement of different bearings.
Hope this might help you.
I've replaced all the bearings with proper german ones except for the blue gear for I could not get them out without damaging the blue gear...is there any way to get them out without using a press? Thanks for any advice 🙂

Heisenberg60   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Heisenberg60 » Jan 14 2021 7:18am

casainho wrote:
Jan 14 2021 3:00am
After you install our OpenSource firmware v1.1.0, enable the Field Weakening feature you will feel a big boost on the bicycle wheel!!
Ah nice i didn`t know the 1.1 Version is out now. :thumb:
I will flash it later and see if it helps.

Anyway i have field weakening active at the moment (V1.0-light fix), but i still have the early power reduction.
might there be other facotrs ? as i mentioned 50% power reduction (750Wmax -> 350Wmax) @ 50% battery seems a little unrealistic.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jan 14 2021 7:42am

Heisenberg60 wrote:
Jan 14 2021 7:18am
Anyway i have field weakening active at the moment (V1.0-light fix), but i still have the early power reduction.
might there be other facotrs ? as i mentioned 50% power reduction (750Wmax -> 350Wmax) @ 50% battery seems a little unrealistic.
First look at the PWM value that must be the max value possible, is it the max value when you see the 750W? and on 350W?
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Heisenberg60   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Heisenberg60 » Jan 14 2021 12:24pm

casainho wrote:
Jan 14 2021 7:42am
First look at the PWM value that must be the max value possible, is it the max value when you see the 750W? and on 350W?
yes it was the max PWM-value for both readings.

but never mind i just updated on the new 1.1 version and realized that the low-voltage-cutoff is set to 42V by default.
I think that i didn`t change the value after the last update, so most proably the low-voltage-cutoff was the culprit for the missing power. Now I`ve set it to 40V and get arround 600W at max PWM and ~50% charge, i will keep an eye on it during next few battery-cycles.

thank you anyway, it`s realy nice to see that the community is still active and so helpful :D :thumb:

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jan 14 2021 12:44pm

Heisenberg60 wrote:
Jan 14 2021 12:24pm
casainho wrote:
Jan 14 2021 7:42am
First look at the PWM value that must be the max value possible, is it the max value when you see the 750W? and on 350W?
yes it was the max PWM-value for both readings.

but never mind i just updated on the new 1.1 version and realized that the low-voltage-cutoff is set to 42V by default.
I think that i didn`t change the value after the last update, so most proably the low-voltage-cutoff was the culprit for the missing power. Now I`ve set it to 40V and get arround 600W at max PWM and ~50% charge, i will keep an eye on it during next few battery-cycles.

thank you anyway, it`s realy nice to see that the community is still active and so helpful :D :thumb:
It is really nice when the problems can be solved! :-)
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Wapous   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Wapous » Jan 14 2021 4:15pm

I've replaced all the bearings with proper german ones except for the blue gear for I could not get them out without damaging the blue gear...is there any way to get them out without using a press? Thanks for any advice 🙂
[/quote]

This is the way I do replace the blue gear clutch bearing.
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feketehegyi   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by feketehegyi » Jan 15 2021 11:23am

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/wptmvideos ... =0&sort=dd
DIY TSDZ2 VOAMCA firmware: https://github.com/wptm/voamca . Android app via bluetooth for this VOAMCA: http://wptm.hu/ebmdisplay/ DIY Bluetooth module for the TSDZ2: https://github.com/wptm/tsdz2_bluetooth

Andrew707   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Andrew707 » Jan 15 2021 4:27pm

Andrew707 wrote:
Jan 13 2021 10:58pm
casainho wrote:
Jan 13 2021 3:04am
You need to be creative!! See the creativity for some full suspension bicycles - How to install TSDZ2 on a full suspension bicycle:
https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ ... on-bicycle
Wow this is really creative! :o
ilu wrote:
Jan 13 2021 5:52am
In this case I would simply fix a steel corner support like this attached to similar but shorter bolts as in your last picture. Of course you may need to drill bigger holes and use washers to get a proper alignment for the piece.
Thanks for an advice! I've bought some corner support and washers. Will try to make this work. Will post picture once done! :)
Corner brace worked pretty well!
Image

LeftCoastNurd   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Jan 15 2021 5:26pm

on my hybrid, I had to loosen everything up quite a bit, then pre-thread that torque bolt and block loosely in place, THEN snug things down incrementally. when the motor was in the proper position I could not possibly get the torque block in place, but successively tightening things and it all went together correctly.

if it hadn't worked, I'd intended to get a block of aluminum, and machine a custom torque block.

Andrew707   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Andrew707 » Jan 15 2021 6:00pm

I installed OSF on VLCD5 and just went out for a test drive and looks like I have another problem. Speed is not shown and E02 is blinking. When I turned off "Set parameters on startup" option in configurator, E02 is gone but speed is not working. I noticed that at the very beginning motor is not working and then 99.9 shows up on the screen for a few seconds and then goes back to 00.0 and then the motor starts working and works fine until the next full stop. My other bike sometimes used to show 99.9 when speed sensor was too close to the magnet but the motor kept working fine all the time as far as I remember. Any ideas what could be wrong?

Elinx   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Jan 15 2021 6:56pm

Andrew707 wrote:
Jan 15 2021 6:00pm
I installed OSF on VLCD5 ...... Any ideas what could be wrong?
Nothing with v20 b1.
Because the display shows 99,9% (or less) batteriecharge (instead of 0 km/h) has influence on the odometer that will be compensated the first minutes after start biking.
Till the counter has done a full compensation, the speed shows 0 km/h.
If you don't care the odometer value, you can uncheck "odometer compensation" on the "basic settings" tab.

More info you can find in the "display operation manual" (page 2)
______________________________

Attention, the display always interprets the data received as a speed and consequently increases the odometer, even when the bike is stationary.
By enabling the parameter ENABLE_ODOMETER_COMPENSATION in the config.h file (default enabled), it is possible to recover the kilometers added and not traveled, during this operation the speed displayed while driving remains at zero until the kilometers are equalized

______________________________

Andrew707   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Andrew707 » Jan 15 2021 7:25pm

Elinx wrote:
Jan 15 2021 6:56pm
Nothing with v20 b1.
...
That's fine if the speed doesn't show up for a few minutes. But my main concern right now is that once I start pedaling motor is not engaged until a few seconds later. Once it start working it works fine but after a full stop it takes a few seconds again for it start working again. Never happened to my other bike with OSF and VCD5 :?

Elinx   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Jan 16 2021 5:35am

Andrew707 wrote:
Jan 15 2021 7:25pm
... my main concern right now is that once I start pedaling motor is not engaged until a few seconds later............
I had understand it was only the zero speed reading after a full stop.
For fast start try enabling "Start-up assistance without pedaling"
"Assist without pedaling threshold" between 10 and 30.
"Pedal torque adc offset adjust" 5 and 10.

You find more about these settings inside the configuration manual page 2/3

mbrusa   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mbrusa » Jan 16 2021 6:59am

Andrew707 wrote:
Jan 15 2021 7:25pm
... my main concern right now is that once I start pedaling motor is not engaged until a few seconds later............
Try increasing the value of "Motor ramp down additional".
Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 motor and VLCD5 VLCD6 XH18 displays
https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1

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