What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

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yonipacheko   1 mW

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What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by yonipacheko » Jan 28 2021 6:21am

I installed this motor (Tongsheng 36V 250W/350W TSDZ2) on my bike. It has been working well until yesterday. Suddenly the display wasn't working anymore?
Why:

I'm wondering, (I'm not sure) if I connected the battery wrong, it was dark an dI was tired. :oops: Anyway then I wanted to start the display but it was dead.
I can't see any sign that something got black or smoked.
The battery is fine, is charging well. :D

My question is:

What happen generally speaking when you connect the battery wrong? Will the motor burn-down directly and everything on its way?
Will the display works as a shield like a breaker because is more sensitive than the motor? :D
Is it the display dead? or is it the motor? I suppose that the display is more sensitive for voltage-change than the motor, right?

Thanks for yr time!

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E-HP   1 MW

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by E-HP » Jan 28 2021 11:23am

yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Jan 28 2021 6:21am
I installed this motor (Tongsheng 36V 250W/350W TSDZ2) on my bike. It has been working well until yesterday.

What happen generally speaking when you connect the battery wrong? Will the motor burn-down directly and everything on its way?
Will the display works as a shield like a breaker because is more sensitive than the motor? :D
Is it the display dead? or is it the motor? I suppose that the display is more sensitive for voltage-change than the motor, right?

Thanks for yr time!
Your motor is probably fine, but your controller could be fried, resulting in a ~$75 mistake.

It could have also fried the display, since battery level voltage usually goes there too.

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 28 2021 11:39am

$$$ are lost

To lessen such occurrences:

1.Fuse each device with a fuse just above operating amperage will help.

2. Or add a failsafe reverse polarity sensing /disconnect circuit alerter. Buzz.....some battery chargers have 'em.

3. Get connectors that cannot be hooked up reversed polarity. Anderson, XT90, XT60 etc

4. Pay attention to what you do. If you have trouble at behaving this way set up the alert circuit item #2 so that it shocks you when you attemp to hook up reversed polarity.

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yonipacheko   1 mW

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by yonipacheko » Jan 28 2021 1:48pm

One more πŸ™‹β€β™‚οΈ question here:
Controller and Display are not the same thing?

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by E-HP » Jan 28 2021 2:09pm

yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Jan 28 2021 1:48pm
One more πŸ™‹β€β™‚οΈ question here:
Controller and Display are not the same thing?
The controller is located in the motor housing.
https://www.eco-ebike.com/products/tsdz ... 6v-48v-52v

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by yonipacheko » Jan 28 2021 3:40pm

I hope this is my last question, :mrgreen: sorry to bother u. I'm new to this thing.

How Could I test if the motor, the controller or display are fried?
The display obviously doesn't light up, the controller don't have a clue how? and I guess the motor will be the same cuz there are in the same place right?

Now, why I can't see any physical damage like fried/smoked signs on the connectors or somewhere else ?

The thing is that I'm still not sure if I fcked it up or it's just maybe a cable-glitch with the connectors...

:?: :?: How to try dat?
Kindly,
Last edited by yonipacheko on Jan 29 2021 3:41am, edited 2 times in total.

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yonipacheko   1 mW

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by yonipacheko » Jan 28 2021 3:41pm

DingusMcGee wrote: ↑
Jan 28 2021 11:39am
$$$ are lost

To lessen such occurrences:

1.Fuse each device with a fuse just above operating amperage will help.

2. Or add a failsafe reverse polarity sensing /disconnect circuit alerter. Buzz.....some battery chargers have 'em.

3. Get connectors that cannot be hooked up reversed polarity. Anderson, XT90, XT60 etc

4. Pay attention to what you do. If you have trouble at behaving this way set up the alert circuit item #2 so that it shocks you when you attemp to hook up reversed polarity.
Thanks for this to-do list! I appreciate it!

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by E-HP » Jan 28 2021 4:21pm

yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Jan 28 2021 3:40pm
I hope this is my last question, :mrgreen: sorry to bother u. I'm new to this thing.

How Could I test if the motor, the controller or display are fried?
The display obviously doesn't light up, the controller don't have a clue how? and I guess the motor will be the same cuz there are in the same place right?
Which display are you using. The first thing I'd do is test to see if the display is getting power. You can do that by disconnecting the display connector, and measure voltage of the pins on the motor/controller side connector. If you see batter voltage across two of the pins, then you know the display is getting voltage, and if it won't light up, it's probably fried. If there's no voltage, then something else is wrong upstream, but the display still be fried, but you won't know until you fix the upstream problem (controller failure). There's virtually no reason that your motor would be fried.

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by amberwolf » Jan 29 2021 12:05am

Some generic references to reversed-battery-wire-connection situations, may have useful info:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=28991

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=38286

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=41825

and while I can't find it now, I have some posts about a generic 12fet that was sent to me after a battery reversal, where the shunt vaporized, and the main caps exploded, but after replacing those, it worked fine for me for years.

I'm sure there are plenty of other similar threads that might have useful info, too.

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by yonipacheko » Jan 29 2021 2:57am

E-HP wrote: ↑
Jan 28 2021 4:21pm


Which display are you using.
VLCD5

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by yonipacheko » Jan 29 2021 3:15am

amberwolf wrote: ↑
Jan 29 2021 12:05am
Some generic references to reversed-battery-wire-connection situations, may have useful info:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=28991

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=38286

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=41825

and while I can't find it now, I have some posts about a generic 12fet that was sent to me after a battery reversal, where the shunt vaporized, and the main caps exploded, but after replacing those, it worked fine for me for years.

I'm sure there are plenty of other similar threads that might have useful info, too.
What do you mean by " a battery reversal"?
I'm not sure yet, I gonna trouble-shoot today or tomorrow, but MY current situation is that everything stop working when I connected quickly: the connectors never got connected properly either. Maybe everything is so sensitive that it's enough a single touch of cables to fry the components?

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by E-HP » Jan 29 2021 12:42pm

yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Jan 29 2021 3:15am
What do you mean by " a battery reversal"?
I'm not sure yet, I gonna trouble-shoot today or tomorrow, but MY current situation is that everything stop working when I connected quickly: the connectors never got connected properly either. Maybe everything is so sensitive that it's enough a single touch of cables to fry the components?
Sorry, that's how electricity works. If you touch your tongue briefly to the battery terminals if you want to get an idea of what shorting a 36V battery is like. Kidding, DON'T do that.

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by amberwolf » Jan 29 2021 10:24pm

yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Jan 29 2021 3:15am

What do you mean by " a battery reversal"?
Reversing the connections from battery to rest of bike. Connecting negative battery to controller positive, and positive battery to controller negative. Probably several other ways to say the same thing, but it is what you stated you did in the first post of this thread.

I'm not sure yet, I gonna trouble-shoot today or tomorrow, but MY current situation is that everything stop working when I connected quickly: the connectors never got connected properly either. Maybe everything is so sensitive that it's enough a single touch of cables to fry the components?
Most electronics have a polarity, and if it is not connected to it's power source correctly, damage will occur. The higher the voltage, then generally the worse the damage is. The longer the incorrect connection, the worse as well, but even an instant of wrong connection can certainly destroy things.

Sometimes the damage is obvious, with smoke, fire, or blown up parts. Sometimes the damage is invisible.

Often the only way for the average person to troubleshoot this kind of damage is to start replacing units (controllers, displays, throttles, PAS sensors, etc etc) until the system works as expected.

To troubleshoot and repair the individual units is sometimes possible, but it depends on how each thing failed. If the damage includes things like the MCU chips and such inside displays and controllers, those are generally not available to buy, and would require replacing the entire unit as a whole.

I recommend reading the links I posted first. If those aren't useful for you, I can try to find other similar threads for you. After that, you'd have to be willing to post exact details of your entire setup and wiring, and do exact tests (which will include disassembling controllers, displays, batteries, etc, and testing voltages and other measurements on various components inside) that we tell you, and give us exact results, for us to help you troubleshoot it. Most people are unwilling to do this, and have to just replace whole units until it works.

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by yonipacheko » Feb 04 2021 8:08am

Hi guys,

Everything is going well, but I'm having problems to extract the round module, one of the screws sits very hard and its head is damaged( see picture).
So My question is: is it possible to extract the controller without removing the left-round part? say yes!! :oops: :?:
Attachments
IMG_1384.jpeg
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bloody screw
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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by ilu » Feb 04 2021 8:32am

yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Feb 04 2021 8:08am
Hi guys,

Everything is going well, but I'm having problems to extract the round module, one of the screws sits very hard and its head is damaged( see picture).
So My question is: is it possible to extract the controller without removing the left-round part? say yes!! :oops: :?:
Yes. The round part is the motor and you don't need to remove it to take out the controller. At some point you may need to deal with the broken screw if you need to change the blue gear or something.

To take out the controller you have to open the plastic cover on the opposite side of the housing, where the cables go inside. Below that you will find to phillips screws that fix the controller in it's place. The opening for the cables is filled with silicone or glue and you need to remove that to have some slack in the wires to be able to pull out the controller. When you put it all back together, fill the hole again with silicone or hot glue.
Last edited by ilu on Feb 04 2021 8:43am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by Elinx » Feb 04 2021 8:36am

yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Feb 04 2021 8:08am
.
So My question is: is it possible to extract the controller without removing the left-round part? say yes!! :oops: :?:
Yes. as ilu already mentioned
For illustration of it.......See from 2:29 of this video

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by ilu » Feb 04 2021 8:51am

By the way, have you checked the voltage from the battery leads? If the battery gets short-circuited it might trigger the BMS protection and shut down. Also check the continuity from the battery wires on the controller side. I've fried two TSDZ2 controllers and both didn't show any external damage but the battery wires were short-circuited. If that is the case you most probably need to replace the controller.

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by E-HP » Feb 04 2021 10:22am

yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Feb 04 2021 8:08am
Hi guys,

Everything is going well, but I'm having problems to extract the round module, one of the screws sits very hard and its head is damaged( see picture).
So My question is: is it possible to extract the controller without removing the left-round part? say yes!! :oops: :?:
So you already checked that the battery is outputting voltage and there's not voltage going to the display?

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yonipacheko   1 mW

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by yonipacheko » Feb 23 2021 4:26pm

ilu wrote: ↑
Feb 04 2021 8:51am
By the way, have you checked the voltage from the battery leads? If the battery gets short-circuited it might trigger the BMS protection and shut down. Also check the continuity from the battery wires on the controller side. I've fried two TSDZ2 controllers and both didn't show any external damage but the battery wires were short-circuited. If that is the case you most probably need to replace the controller.
HI there! the battery is working! it's charging well.
I checked the controller but it has a thick silicon layer and nothings seems dark or smoked. I checked the VLCD 5 display and it's frighted! so If I have lucky is just display that is not working? Could it be possible?

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yonipacheko   1 mW

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by yonipacheko » Feb 23 2021 4:27pm

E-HP wrote: ↑
Feb 04 2021 10:22am
yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Feb 04 2021 8:08am
Hi guys,

Everything is going well, but I'm having problems to extract the round module, one of the screws sits very hard and its head is damaged( see picture).
So My question is: is it possible to extract the controller without removing the left-round part? say yes!! :oops: :?:
So you already checked that the battery is outputting voltage and there's not voltage going to the display?
Correct, the display is not working, I m sure about it. Don't know yet if it's just the display. It'd be nice. My plan now is to buy a new display and try it. If it doesn't work then I'll know that the controller is damaged.

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yonipacheko   1 mW

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by yonipacheko » Feb 23 2021 4:28pm

E-HP wrote: ↑
Feb 04 2021 10:22am
yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Feb 04 2021 8:08am
Hi guys,

Everything is going well, but I'm having problems to extract the round module, one of the screws sits very hard and its head is damaged( see picture).
So My question is: is it possible to extract the controller without removing the left-round part? say yes!! :oops: :?:
So you already checked that the battery is outputting voltage and there's not voltage going to the display?
Correct, the display is not working, I m sure about it. Don't know yet if it's just the display. It'd be nice. My plan now is to buy a new display and try it. If it doesn't work then I'll know that the controller is damaged.

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by E-HP » Feb 23 2021 8:31pm

yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Feb 23 2021 4:28pm
E-HP wrote: ↑
Feb 04 2021 10:22am
yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Feb 04 2021 8:08am
Hi guys,

Everything is going well, but I'm having problems to extract the round module, one of the screws sits very hard and its head is damaged( see picture).
So My question is: is it possible to extract the controller without removing the left-round part? say yes!! :oops: :?:
So you already checked that the battery is outputting voltage and there's not voltage going to the display?
Correct, the display is not working, I m sure about it. Don't know yet if it's just the display. It'd be nice. My plan now is to buy a new display and try it. If it doesn't work then I'll know that the controller is damaged.
What I mean is to check that battery voltage is reaching your display. To test that, disconnect the connector between the controller and display, and test for voltage on the pins on the controller end. If it's a 6-pin model (VLCD5 apparently has a couple of configurations), then test between pins 4 and 5. If the controller isn't providing power to the display, then you can't assume the display is fried and possibly there's something is wrong on the controller end.

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/manuals/VLCD5.pdf

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yonipacheko   1 mW

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by yonipacheko » Feb 24 2021 7:06am

E-HP wrote: ↑
Feb 23 2021 8:31pm
What I mean is to check that battery voltage is reaching your display. To test that, disconnect the connector between the controller and display, and test for voltage on the pins on the controller end. If it's a 6-pin model (VLCD5 apparently has a couple of configurations), then test between pins 4 and 5. If the controller isn't providing power to the display, then you can't assume the display is fried and possibly there's something is wrong on the controller end.
Yes, I did it differently though and the display is dead. Now the second phase of my plan is to buy a new display and connect it to the system: controller, and battery and hope that the controller is still alive? or u think that the controller should already be dead?

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by yonipacheko » Feb 24 2021 7:06am

do u know btw, where to buy such a display in Europe?

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Re: What happens when bike battery cables are wrongly connected? (using TSDZ2)

Post by Elinx » Feb 25 2021 12:15pm

yonipacheko wrote: ↑
Feb 24 2021 7:06am
...where to buy ... in Europe?
Germany

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