Bafang M500/M600 thread

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by gidooo » Jul 02 2019 7:02am



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El_Topo   1 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by El_Topo » Jul 10 2019 5:12pm

Since the chainring is connected to the motor and not the crank itself like with non-electric ISIS cranks what other spider options are out there?
The standard Bafang spider allows for a 53mm chainline according to the specifications PDF, if you flip the chainring you should land at 58(-ish) mm if drawing is to scale. The fat bike spider for the Ultra may fit and will probably yield a 75mm chainline so my question is how to get to a 65mm chainline with the G521?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by waynebergman » Jul 10 2019 5:44pm

Hi El topo
Shown here is my spider and sprocket on the M600. Not sure if this helps but the center of the green oval on the photo attached shows the land on the spider that will not be making contact with the sproket if you move the sproket outbound to the other side of the spider. If the sprocket was moved outbound so its on the outside of the spider instead of the inside it may only change the chain line by a little less than 3/16". If the land in the spider extrution is not touching the sprocket it may not be the end of the world (might but not sure) but this drive is a 4 hole pattern. Also one option may be to stick spacers and longer bolts between the sprocket and the spider kind of like the old school front multi ring crank sets. Hope this helps........wayne
spider and sprocket.jpg
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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Jul 10 2019 6:01pm

Alloy bash plate? custom made?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by waynebergman » Jul 10 2019 6:18pm

Yes Animalector, easy to do shown in this thread. .... viewtopic.php?f=28&t=96461

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by El_Topo » Jul 11 2019 2:31am

waynebergman wrote:
Jul 10 2019 5:44pm
Shown here is my spider and sprocket on the M600. Not sure if this helps but the center of the green oval on the photo attached shows the land on the spider that will not be making contact with the sproket if you move the sproket outbound to the other side of the spider. If the sprocket was moved outbound so its on the outside of the spider instead of the inside it may only change the chain line by a little less than 3/16". If the land in the spider extrution is not touching the sprocket it may not be the end of the world (might but not sure) but this drive is a 4 hole pattern. Also one option may be to stick spacers and longer bolts between the sprocket and the spider kind of like the old school front multi ring crank sets. Hope this helps........wayne
Thank you for taking the time to take a photo go your bike, Wayne!

Yep, 3/16" is pretty much what I guessed as well by measuring the PDF on my screen (hence my assumption of getting to 58mm based on the 53mm stated in the PDF). It didn't occur the me that by flipping the ring you loose contact with the "land" as you showed in your photo, so yeah that might be an issue, especially with the forces generated by a motor. Can anyone comment on if the "land" is an integral part of the structural connection between the spider and the BCD chainring (which are standard bike parts)?
Those forces are also is why also why I would be hesitant to put a very long (7-8mm more) spacer/bolt combo onto the spider because I am afraid the sheer forces would be too much four the four tiny (8mm?) bolts.

What bold circle diameter does your chainring have? It looks like 104mm but I could be wrong.
This is the spider for the Ultra motor, here one can see the the spider for the Bafang Max (predecessor of M600), it looks like they spider has the same mount as the Ultra.
Can you confirm yours has the same mount, and can you or anyone else tell me if this proprietary or a standard item that might be found somewhere else?

By the way, the Q-factor of the motor with the standard cranks is 177mm according to this (German link!). There also are a few renderings of the battery system they sell with the motor.
Last edited by El_Topo on Jul 14 2019 12:25pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by waynebergman » Jul 14 2019 11:31am

Yes ElTopo the Bold CD is 104mm. And yes I feel the land on spider touches the sprocket. I did not take it all apart but sliding in a piece of .005" mylar I felt resistance between the sprocket and the land. Pretty sure two two surfaces touch. Hope this helps.Also not sure if you have the option of going with some kind of an IGH as some manufactures have offset rear cogs that can be flipped to change up your chain line. I know on my Sturmey Archer 3 speed for my fat tire bike I was able to improve chain line by flipping rear cog. There is also a new IGH maker out there https://kindernay.com/products/, unique to this IGH is the ability to switch the hub itself into extra laced shells so you can have one hub that services many wheel sets. ......wayne

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by El_Topo » Jul 15 2019 1:09pm

waynebergman wrote:
Jul 14 2019 11:31am
Yes ElTopo the Bold CD is 104mm. And yes I feel the land on spider touches the sprocket. I did not take it all apart but sliding in a piece of .005" mylar I felt resistance between the sprocket and the land. Pretty sure two two surfaces touch. Hope this helps.Also not sure if you have the option of going with some kind of an IGH as some manufactures have offset rear cogs that can be flipped to change up your chain line. I know on my Sturmey Archer 3 speed for my fat tire bike I was able to improve chain line by flipping rear cog. There is also a new IGH maker out there https://kindernay.com/products/, unique to this IGH is the ability to switch the hub itself into extra laced shells so you can have one hub that services many wheel sets. ......wayne
Thanks for checking your spider and chainring, wayne.
I am aware of the Kindernay hub and considered it because the idea seems appealing but in the end I can't justify a hub that costs 10 times as much as a decent 10x derailleur setup (with a cheap steel cassette that has the strength to handle an ebikes torque) and you have around 1kg more of mass in your back that needs to be suspended. On top of that they currently don't offer a cage for 177mm rear wheels, which is the rear size I'd want for the kind of build I have in mind.

After all, the whole gearbox thing should be just integrated into the motor, I bet it would make the whole assembly only 1kg heavier for an equally capable motor. But of course they need something to sell in the future...
Last edited by El_Topo on Jul 15 2019 5:28pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Grantmac » Jul 15 2019 4:57pm

The first company to integrate a motor into a pinion style gearbox will be sitting on a gold mine.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by El_Topo » Jul 15 2019 5:37pm

Grantmac wrote:
Jul 15 2019 4:57pm
The first company to integrate a motor into a pinion style gearbox will be sitting on a gold mine.
There are at least two companies already doing it but one has a weak motor and the other one has a motor rated for 4kW.

All I would want is a company like Bafang mass to produce an affordable motor that has the power and weight of an G521 and a 600(-ish)% gearbox, I bet the whole thing would end up at less than 5kg. Scaling everything up to Bafangs output should bring the cost of the whole assembly down by a lot.

And please, don't use nylon gears in the gearbox - not even in the beginning! :lol:

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Grantmac » Jul 15 2019 10:13pm

The Mubea is very cool but definitely way beyond the price level I'm talking about.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by El_Topo » Jul 18 2019 5:32pm

Grantmac wrote:
Jul 15 2019 10:13pm
The Mubea is very cool but definitely way beyond the price level I'm talking about.
Yes, it also simply too big and heavy for anyone that is after something that still feels like a bike.

I am still trying to find out how one could get a 65mm chainline with the G521, (instead the 75mm chainline you get with Bafang's fat bike spider from the G510 - assuming it fits onto the G521) can anyone shed some light onto this?

TIA!

Also, I see all these open source controllers and displays for other motors on the forums, is this something that could be easily adapted to Bafang's line of motors?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tom » Aug 19 2019 4:23pm

A bit surprised at this m600 review. Wonder why the motor is so loud? Luna claims the motor is silent and I have not seen many complaints about this being a loud motor.

https://electricbikereview.com/spark-bikes/spark-rx/

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Deafcat » Aug 19 2019 5:43pm

Not too surprising, particularly if the motor uses steel gears (I think they are now). What I'd really like to know, is if it's comparably louder than an Ultra motor?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by TOLM » Aug 19 2019 8:37pm

Where can one source a 500/600 motor?

Thanks

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Bigwheel » Aug 19 2019 11:41pm

TOLM wrote:
Aug 19 2019 8:37pm
Where can one source a 500/600 motor?

Thanks
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 1789PP5nGX

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by TOLM » Aug 20 2019 9:27am

Bigwheel wrote:
Aug 19 2019 11:41pm
TOLM wrote:
Aug 19 2019 8:37pm
Where can one source a 500/600 motor?

Thanks
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 1789PP5nGX
Thanks

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by mike425 » Aug 20 2019 9:58am

I have ordered an M600 motor on alibaba (g521.500).

If you email most of the sellers it looks no one has stock of this motor at the minute, I have been quoted 25 days before they are in stock, so I just placed a partial deposit on one to secure it.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tom » Aug 20 2019 5:30pm

If you're in the US I believe FLX has them in stock.
More than buying from China but might be less hassle.

https://flx.bike/products/bafang-max-mi ... rrency=USD

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Leeleeducati » Aug 21 2019 9:20am

While I didn’t actually order from them, I had great correspondence and support from Henry at http://www.ouka-ebike.com/.

One thing to note, and this is why I didn’t order from Ouka is that the original Bafang batteries BTF03 and BTF04 are very hard to get. If you’re planning on using an original battery make sure you find a source for both drive and battery. Most of the drive guys can’t get the batteries and the ones that can will sell only the full kit (drive and battery). Not sure of any battery only sources currently. Just make sure you factor this in.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Bigwheel » Aug 21 2019 9:38am

Tom wrote:
Aug 20 2019 5:30pm
If you're in the US I believe FLX has them in stock.
More than buying from China but might be less hassle.

https://flx.bike/products/bafang-max-mi ... rrency=USD
I saw that but the motor shown as a square taper bb whereas the M600 has a splined bb?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Deafcat » Aug 21 2019 12:41pm

Bigwheel wrote:
Aug 21 2019 9:38am
Tom wrote:
Aug 20 2019 5:30pm
If you're in the US I believe FLX has them in stock.
More than buying from China but might be less hassle.

https://flx.bike/products/bafang-max-mi ... rrency=USD
I saw that but the motor shown as a square taper bb whereas the M600 has a splined bb?
There are photos of three different motors on that site (the square tapers are on the ol Max motor).

On that note: Bafangs site specifies the Ultra motor as ISIS splines, and the M600 motor as Bafang Spline... I think they are the same but I am still not sure. Would be great if somebody confirmed they are compatible.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Leeleeducati » Sep 24 2019 8:43am

Bafang spline and ISIS spline are not compatible.
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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Leeleeducati » Sep 24 2019 8:54am

On another note, it may be that there are different versions of wiring for these motors. Can anyone comment on where the following might go?

* Does the display go to Port 1?
* Does the throttle go on the ebrake wiring harness?
* Does the ebrake wiring harness go to Port 2?
* Does the speed sensor go to Port 3?

Any help would be appreciated, don't want to go live till I've confirmed, the connectors are specific, but some common (display and throttle).

Note: the ebrake connections are the round 3-prong common to Bafang so you can swap out the supplied brake levers with integrated sensors to the more common magnetic versions that plug into Bafang for better brakes.
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