Bafang M500/M600 thread

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Deafcat » Nov 16 2019 2:51pm

Unlikely it's compatible in any way, shape or form without some re-fabbing.

A CAD model of the M600 would help your cause greatly!

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by unterhausen » Nov 19 2019 4:26pm

I'm sure that it will not be easy to make this swap.

How hard is it go get the dealer manuals from Bafang? I don't see them online

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Map Paddy » Nov 25 2019 7:27pm

Hey I have a fault somewhere on my frey m600 it's got less than 500 km I was riding and it shut down screen flashed once on restart then nothing brought it home plugged charger in flashed oddly so disconnected battery from bike battery charged normally when I put battery back it arced at terminals and drained battery across terminals at discharge mount I get .5 ohms I took off non drive side cover and disconnected xt60 and checked motor side .5 ohms is that normal? how do I find where the fault is could it be loose connector on controller side ? or maybe water ingress ?any help or ideas to try would be appreciated

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tsellers   1 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Nov 25 2019 8:33pm

I don't think this will help, but a couple of observations that I recently had that might have some bearing when you are testing:
1: I noticed that here must be a large capacitor in the controller or motor that retains a good charge when the battery is disconnected, so you may have to remember to discharge it before doing anything.
2: On the four interface battery connections, you have '+ A B -'. The '+' and 'A' are the same circuit, as are 'B and -'. I think the charger port that is on your frame is connected to A and B. If there was a short on your charger circuit, I wonder if that could have caused the arc that you saw.
3: If it were me, I might think about taking the battery connection board (I think you called this the 'discharge mount') out of the bottom of the battery compartment and disconnecting everything except the + and - and see if you continue to get the same problem, or perhaps not connecting it, making up some jumpers from 12 guage wire, and feeding 48V directly to the controller from a battery pack, thus bypassing everything that has the potential to short up to that point.

I have only been able to ride mine using an external battery as I am still trying to work out an efficient 52V build for 21700 cells in the Frey battery pack. That is why I am familiar with the circuit that those connection points are using. I was surprised to discover however, that on the very first time I powered my new bike up last Friday, the trip meter immediately reported it had 462km on it! Frey is looking into it, as they were also shocked that it happened, and have gone to Bafang to see if they have an explanation.
Last edited by tsellers on Nov 25 2019 8:39pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Nov 25 2019 8:34pm

Try turning the chainring backwards. If it is very difficult to turn the Fets are probably blown.

Sounds like a controller /Fet problem to me.

Andy

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tsellers   1 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Nov 25 2019 8:43pm

Good thought. I found that testing the FET's was a lot easier after I spent $5.00 on a tester last month. This is the one I got and it seems to work fine (this is not an 'affiliate' link):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3274049 ... 4c4dZZVhug
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Map Paddy » Nov 25 2019 10:19pm

I tried to pull chain In reverse is at least 3 times the normal restiance

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Map Paddy » Nov 25 2019 10:23pm

e0664cfa366270c8df064b7fabaf2d07_40.jpg
e0664cfa366270c8df064b7fabaf2d07_40.jpg (93 KiB) Viewed 1875 times
I tried to pull chain In reverse is at least 3 times the normal restiance does this mean it's the fets o the board? Here is pic of battery terminals
Attachments
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52ea9631818e6b488fc38390a7790935_30.jpg (47.31 KiB) Viewed 1874 times
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20191123_190214_40_30.jpg (96.32 KiB) Viewed 1874 times
Last edited by Map Paddy on Nov 27 2019 1:08am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by waynebergman » Nov 25 2019 10:49pm

Hi Andy, that is a good point regarding trying to rotate the chainring in the backwards direction and If it is very difficult to turn to trouble shoot if the Fets are blown. I did not know this and makes me think it would be interesting to test how much pressure or pounds of pull it will take to rotate the chainring in a backwards motion when the fets are NOT blown. If one has a base measurement to go by when the bike is healthy then you have something to compare to when and if the fets blow.

I wonder if a simple fish weighing scale like for sport fishing would work for getting a ball park pound reading for moving the motor backwards, just take the hook on the scale and tie it to your chain and pull till the motor spins backwards I guess. I am sure for all of our drives will have a similar amount of resistance when doing this test. Could this be handy to have this number posted here in this thread? I am away from home now so I dont have my scale with me, if others could test this and report how many "pounds of pull" it takes to move the motor backwards this number could be handy, not sure just putting it out there?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Nov 25 2019 11:03pm

Ironically a friend had come over this afternoon with his scale so I could weigh the bike, but another poster had already said they weigh 65lbs, so I told him I did not need it. I'll see if I can find something here and do it tonight, I'm just in the process of trying to troubleshoot a potentially faulty BMS with my Chinese supplier via Chat.
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by ilegal » Dec 27 2019 2:36pm

Image

152mm, like my old BBSHD. We´ll see how it goes this weekend.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Deafcat » Dec 27 2019 2:48pm

Very clean, hope it works well for you!

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by waynebergman » Dec 27 2019 2:53pm

Way to go "ilegel" I am just a couple of months behind you on this move. I have my L & R taps for the job but waiting until I get back to my shop in Canada to tackle this project, I am in Arizona now until end of March. Looking forward to hear how it all goes for you. I think 152mm is a great length for these bikes - keeping my fingers crossed for you........wayne

and also "Map paddy" how did things turn out for you regarding the controller etc?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Dec 27 2019 10:29pm

I've ridden my M600 about 250km's now, and have started to notice that on one trail I often take, I pedal strike some root taps and rock evulsions on the trail that I've never hit before when the bike is upright but the pedal is the bottom of the stroke. Is that what this thread discussion addresses with respect to the problem with the long crank arms? I have to learn to adjust my riding, and am thinking that this may become a lot more prevalent when summer arrives because right now the packed snow is lessening the number of protruding objects on the trail.
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by JBC » Dec 29 2019 2:47pm

Hi,

has anyone managed to hack M500 / M600 engine programming?
Or is there already a programmable controller on the market to replace the original one?

I am very excited to build an eMTB with an M600 engine, but the impossibility of engine programming is a major problem.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Dec 29 2019 3:02pm

Is there a particular reason why you want to program the controller? As a torque sensor pedal assist, the motor is fantastic as it is. It has plenty of power to rip up single trails.

My guess is that with any other controller you will lose the integrated feel and just end up with a throttle mid drive.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by JBC » Dec 29 2019 3:12pm

Of course, it would be better to program the original controller.

For example, to increase speed pedal assist and throttle.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tom » Dec 30 2019 5:39am

Or make it street legal. On my X1 you couldn't even adjust the maximum speed. How stupid is that? Pretty much every X1 out there is illegal in most of the US unless you disconnect the throttle. There is no way to make it class 1 legal either for trail riding.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tom » Dec 30 2019 2:02pm

I haven't seen many bikes with the M500 but here's one. Looks very similar to the Luna Fixed Stealth.

https://wafabike.com/en/product/i-am-urbanity/

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Bigwheel » Jan 01 2020 12:32pm

I've been waffling on the M600 for quite awhile. Tried working with an Asian supplier for a HT based bike with more modern geo than the like 6 year behind way they are built factory spec. There is no reason, nor added cost involved, in mitering the tubes differently so it really shouldn't be that big a deal IMNSHO but it seems like a major leap of faith at the factory level that gets passed on to the importers if they don't care about geo as much as the bottom line.

Following the M600 progression it seems like it has had some teething problems and issues that hopefully Bafang has addressed for model year 2020. Last year I hit up the FLX site when I got wind of their "Trail" model that is an M600 HT bike and also on the cheaper end of the whole bike spectrum at $2300. The cheaper price of course is mainly due to the componentry but that is not a concern of mine because those bits are upgradeable and usually go along with personal preference anyway. Basically I was viewing it as a cheap way into trying the M600 system but once I viewed the geo chart I saw that it wasn't at all set up for trail type riding and in fact far from it. Long CS, Short Reach, Tall Stack height and only room for 2.1ish tires was more than I could bear so kept my money and riding my TSDZ2 Métisse.

My visit to FLX got me on their mailing list and I received this yesterday: https://flx.bike/collections/bikes/prod ... -pre-order

They have "re-done" the Trail it appears and at first glance it looks really good, I like the green color one, and especially with the knobbier tires, 2" wide standard which leaves one to wonder what it will really take in between the stays and if not up to a 2.5 700c/2.8 650b then that alone would take it out of the trail category, it does look the part. So I guess to be fair with the current geo it is more like an XC bike of around 8 years ago and although that will work just fine for some it doesn't for others and changing it to a better geo wouldn't preclude the use of the former but create more interest of the latter.

Steep 69d head angle and lax 73.5 ST angle are two that stick out as far away from the current parameters of mtb design. 65d/71.5d are not unusual in the Trail Bike category and the reasoning is sound and tested behind it.

I realize the focus is on FS these days but some of us prefer a HT and are seeking one with more performance attributes. If it was an upgradable $2300 one that would be great but I guess it won't be happening again this year.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by formula101 » Jan 01 2020 3:44pm

I will definitely consider the M600 when the top speed limit is unlocked. Bosch is locking all settings on their motor as well. It's an unfortunate trend.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by waynebergman » Jan 01 2020 6:54pm

what about this idea of sensor magnet on crank arm and sensor relocated on chains stay to pick up the signal from the crank arm magnets instead of from the wheel revoltions. I would think the effect is like tricking the sensor to be thinking the wheel is spinning much slower than it actually is. Not a perfect solution as odometer etc will not be correct but may let you hit higher top speeds ?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Jan 01 2020 7:37pm

This is the mod that everyone does on their Shimano and Bosch drives.

Works fine but as you said the speed is all whacked....

Do you really need to know how fast you are going?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by electricwheels.de » Jan 02 2020 3:06pm

Leeleeducati wrote:
Nov 05 2019 11:31am
overdrive wrote:
Nov 02 2019 2:18pm
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I will inform you asap it is available.
Are there more people around here who want to have this cable?
Let me know if you have a source for that ebrake cable that plugs into port #2? I’d be interested in one. Thanks.
Hi folks,
the connectors used are the HIGO Mini-F series cable connectors.
I'm trying to get some info on the pinout/wiring diagram and can offer to make a custom harness free of charge including shipping for you if you can help me with this. If interested, send me an initial enquiriy by private message. Thanks.

ride safe
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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tom » Jan 02 2020 3:54pm

Bigwheel wrote:
Jan 01 2020 12:32pm
They have "re-done" the Trail it appears and at first glance it looks really good
Seems they also re-did the Blade. No pictures yet but damn, it's got a rohloff with carbon belt drive.

https://flx.bike/collections/bikes/products/blade-2-0

Image

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